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Topic ClosedHi, ask me about The Garden of Eden

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hi, ask me about The Garden of Eden
    Posted: 03-Feb-2011 at 19:09
Hello there!

My name's Paul and I'm here because I need some help with an important mission to show the world where the real Garden of Eden is after finding it in Rashaya, Lebanon in November 2009. I am urgently trying to bring it to the attention of UNESCO to secure it's World Heritage Status.



The Garden of Eden was a real place, and the beginning of the Agricultural (Neolithic) Revolution soon after 9,500BC. It is located near the heads of the Dan, Banias, Hasbani and Upper Jordan rivers (that's 4 heads, as per the Genesis story AND in the Biblical lands), for more info please visit www.edentourism.com or www.goldenageproject.org.uk.

This conclusion was comprehensively mapped out by Christian O'Brien in his 1985 book, " The Genius of The Few" where he identified it through descriptions given in the earliest Nippur Tablets (The Barton Cylinder, etc), Atrahasis and The Book of Enoch, along with the Bible and The Koran. The Sumerians who were first recorded to have written about The Garden of Eden called it "Kharsag".

Eden / Kharsag was located on Google Earth by Edmund Marriage, Director of the Patrick Foundation Golden Age Project in 2006, who discovered a mile long Great Watercourse in place as per O'Brien's map. I led the field walk recently in an initial survey which has provided the first video (unreleased) and photographic evidence of the site for peer review. Please see these maps for both Google Earth and Christian O'Brien's placement of the remains of structures at this REAL place.

O'Brien identified this site as the starting point of the Neolithic (Agricultural) Revolution at around 9,500BC, soon after the Younger Dryas. Inescapable evidence includes the the development of Jericho and Tell Aswad soon after this date, along with cultivated figs dug up on the other side of Mount Hermon at Gilgal I and cultivated crops starting at Tel Abu Huera, not very far to the North by 9,050BC.

You can also see the ruins of a man-made reservoir, great watercourse and irrigation channels on Google Earth, along with other structures.

The Garden was known as "Kharsag" in the Sumerian Nippur Tablets which means means "head enclosure". The entire Rashaya basin floods every 5-10 years with millions of cubic gallons of water, forming a huge lake that can still be partially seen on Google Earth from the last one in 2005-2006. We found out from the Lebanese Red Cross that they had put dye down a sinkhole in the Garden that drains the entire basin. The dye came out in the Hasbani. After seeing all this, I now strongly suspect that the people who built Kharsag's reservoir, dam and watercourse did so to control the Lebanese and Anti-Lebanese mountain run off waters and direct them out into the lowlands of "Eden", the area around and likely to the South of Kharsag, which links into the Jordan river and associated famous valley possibly onward to Jericho, etc.



The final shape of the Book of Genesis is generally regarded to have taken place around 5-600 B.C. and most of the names have been changed from the actual places and people the stories are about. Mount Hermon for instance is recorded to have been known as Mount Sion in Deuteronomy 4:48. A name presumably somewhat pilfered by King David for Jerusalem's Mount Zion. The Rashaya Basin is 8 miles south of Mount Hermon, 25 miles East of Damascus.

The centre of cultural diffusion at the time was this bounded area in the mountains, sending out water and knowledge to the grassland/steppe area around, known as Eden.



The theories about Eden being a central site of the agricultural revolution between the Tigris and Euphrates are disproven archaeologically as there would have been ice-flows in this area as agriculture started in the North Western bend of the fertile crescent, not the South East... and that Sumerian civilization didn't move to Eridu, their first city until around 5,500BC.

The Garden of Eden is a central feature in Christianity, Islam and Judaism - showing it's natural origins and archaeological source will in my opinion have the maximum potential as a weapon to destroy those religions and the fantastic voodoo they have spread in billions of people's minds.

I'm looking to promote Eden, as I can see the benefits of archaeology catching up with religion and showing it's source as scientifically as possible. It's a search for human origins and the starting point of the agricultural revolution which is currently best guessed at by Colin Renfrew's "Anatolian Hypothesis", which anyone knowledgeable on finds at Jericho, Tel Abu-Huera and around Mount Hermon may well speculate misses the facts by being a few hundred kilometres too North and a few hundred years too late.

I've spent a lot of last year working on Wikipedia, figuring out where I stand academically on this. It's been a fierce battle with hardcore sceptics, armed with little peer reviewed material as ammunition. It has resulted in the creation of pages (often after massive heated debates you can read about in the discussions) on Kharsag, Christian O'Brien, George Aaron Barton and The Barton Cylinder - mankind's oldest written story, supposedly pre-dating even the Pyramid Texts.

There are various accounts of the Garden of Eden outside the Bible, including the Koran. Eden itself comes from the Sumerian word "Edin" meaning "plain" or "steppe".

The Nippur Tablets, including the Barton Cylinder are most important source documents describing the location of the Garden of Eden, and it's inhabitants, the first Sumerian Pantheon (An, Ninkharsag, Enlil & Enki). These were dug up in the foundations of the temple and library at Nippur by John Henry Haynes in 1898 and translated by George Aaron Barton. These are the oldest religious/story texts in the world, pre-dating the pyramid texts by at least half a century.

Another is the Slavonic Book of Enoch 2 produced around the 2nd century BC from materials with a much older tradition, discovered by Canon Charles and translated by his friend Dr Morfill, the Professor of Slavonic Studies at Oxford. It is from Morfill's work that we have the clearest accounts of the Garden of Eden.

Also we have an Akkadian work, Atra-hasis, Tablet 1 which was copied by a scribe called Ku-aya, in the reign of Ammi-saduqa about 1635 B.C., from non-existant, earlier material. It is indicated that Ku-aya translated an earlier Sumerian tablet into Akkadian. Translations of the Akkadian text have been made by Lambert and Millard, two Oxford scholars following in the footsteps of Canon Charles.

Atra-hasis tells the story of a rebellion of the workers building the Great Watercourse in The Garden of Eden and of them surrounding Enlil's Great House in a mob with tools raised. It then tells the story of the Annunaki council creating "salaried man" and causing a massive rift in our development from utalitarian to capitalist objectives as a race.

From this we get various legends of "fallen angels".

The starting point of the agricultural revolution is thought by many to be 'Eden', which is currently best guessed at by Colin Renfrew's "Anatolian Hypothesis", which anyone knowledgeable on finds at Jericho, Tel Abu-Huera and around Mount Hermon may well speculate misses the facts by being a few hundred kilometres too North and a few hundred years too late.

Inescapable evidence that Anatolia being a bit too North include the the development of agriculture at Jericho before this, cultivated crops are also found starting at Tel Abu Huera, not very far to the North by 9,050BC. Cicer arietinum L. (chickpea) and Vicia faba L. (faba bean, broad bean or horse bean) were found in late 10th millennium b.p. levels at Tell el-Kerkh. Cultivated figs were also dug up on the other side of Mount Hermon at Ohalo II, dated to 9,500-9,300 by Kislev et al not far from Kharsag / Eden.

Sir Colin Renfrew's Anatolian Hypothesis is the currently most widely accepted among academics. This dates the start of the agricultural revolution to c. 7,000 B.C.

My biggest problem with the Northern Theory, is Dame Kathleen Kenyon's excavations of Jericho, which shows organised agriculture long before that date to the South of both Anatolia (Turkey) and Lebanon :

Kathleen Kenyon's conclusions
Kenyon's excavations demonstrated that Jericho was originally founded by sedentary foragers/collectors in the Natufian Period (12,800–10,500 b.p.), living in large semisubterranean oval stone structures, although it is unclear how extensive this occupation was. With the introduction of domesticated plants in the Pre-Pottery Neolithic A period (PPNA) (ca. 10,500/10,300–9300 b.p.), Jericho mushroomed into a large regional agricultural community covering an area of some 300 square yards (25,000 sq m). Villagers, like those of the nearby sites of Netiv Hagdud and Gilgal I, lived year-round in roofed, oval semisubterranean dwellings.

Read more: Jericho - Digging Up Jericho, The Neolithic of the Near East - Neolithic, Bronze, Age, Kenyon, Excavations, and Period


Pictured below is the ruin of a similar, oval, semisubterranean dwelling we found in the Rashaya basin (Eden / Kharsag) with a limestone plaster floor typical of other Neolithic finds dating to the time in question around this area:



Also of interesst at Jericho is the 600 metre x 9 metre x 3 metre rock cut ditch radio-carbon dated to a re-calibrated date c. 8,800 - 9,000 B.C.

The Great Watercourse in Eden looks to have been approximately the same specification - 9 metres deep by 3 metres wide and extends over a mile, the sinkhole section is pictured below. I have added another image, as if you look carefully, you can see a rock cut bridge extending over this section, with a groove alligned to Mount Hermon, from which I speculate hung a giant Cedar sluice (water control) gate.





What you can do to help? Well, click on the links, do some reading and if you're interested and support the promotion of this knowledge, spread it around other web-boards, friends and family. The Golden Age Project has some fascinating stuff on it, which you might have to wade through to find, but it's all in there somewhere and the site is looking a lot better than it did 18 months back. "The Genius of The Few" has a full explanation O'Brien's "Kharsag Thesis", including his methodology for locating The Garden of Eden in Rashaya if you can't be bothered trawling the website for it and want a nice collectors edition.

If anyone can assist to get a review of the above book into a major newspaper or peer reviewed journal - positive or negative - I can then go walkabout on Wikipedia again with a really big gun against the sceptics. If anyone wants the most amazing topic for a thesis, I cannot think of anything bigger than this. ;-)

Also, if anyone wants to visit, I have the contacts to arrange a mind-blowing visit to the area in comparative safety and comfort, funding for pollen core analysis and geo-phys surveys surveys is required, along with further peer reviewable material and the attention of UNESCO and the Lebanese Ministry of Culture.

More on that to come in my posts. Let me know if you have any questions as I claim to be the one of the few foremost experts on Eden / Kharsag site currently alive.



Further explanation in slide format

My Blog


Edited by paygan - 10-Feb-2011 at 21:33
"And there were in all two hundred who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon..." - Slavonic Book of Enoch 2 VI:6 VB
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2011 at 20:39
Wow! As the Brits say; "Good show!"

I will review your data and post again when I have some idea of the reality of your views!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2011 at 00:48
Hi, what do you think about the temple in Gobekli Tepe in Kurdistan? It is the oldest temple in the world to date, constructed as early as 10th millennium BC (10,000 BC).
 
And that's when a tantalising possibility arose. Over glasses of black tea, served in tents right next to the megaliths, Klaus Schmidt told me that, as he put it: 'Gobekli Tepe is not the Garden of Eden: it is a temple in Eden.'
 
 
Recently, Egyptologist, writer and broadcaster David Rohl also apparently come to believe that Gobekli Tepe marks the point of genesis of civilization, and is thus the best candidate by far for the site of the Garden of Eden. This follows on from his claims in his book LEGEND: THE GENESIS OF CIVILIZATION, the Eden material being inspired by FROM THE ASHES OF ANGELS (he told me so), which saw the land of Eden as a much larger region embracing SE Turkey, Western Iran and Northern Iraq (indeed, he placed his 'Garden' east of Lake Urmia in Western Iran)
 
 
Göbekli Tepe is the oldest stone temple anywhere in the world, and has to be a key to understanding the symbolism of the story of the Garden of Eden.
 
 
 
I believe that the biblical Garden of Eden is in Kurdistan!


Edited by MediaWarLord - 04-Feb-2011 at 00:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2011 at 03:18
Four rivers which have been mentioned in the Book of Genesis mentions are Tigris, Euphrates, Pishon and Gihon, the first two ones are enough well-known rivers that there is no reason to discuss about them.
 
This is one possible thing:
 
 
But I believe Pishon and Gihon were in modern Pakistan and Afghanistan, we read: "it then divides and becomes four branches. The name of the first is Pishon, the one that winds through the whole land is Havilah, where the gold is. (The gold of that land is good; bdellium is there, and lapis lazuli). The name of the second river is Gihon, the one that winds through the whole land of Cush. "
 
Havilah could be the same Havelian in the north of Pakistan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havelian and Cush could be Hindu-Kush in Afghanistan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Kush this region has been called Zarafshan (land of gold) in the Old Persian texts, Gihon river is the same Jayhoun river (Amu Darya), the largest river in the Central Asia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amu_Darya, and Pishon could be Pishor (Peshawar) in the north of Pakistan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshawar probably another name of Indus river, the largest river in the south Asia.


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 04-Feb-2011 at 03:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2011 at 13:09
There is no archaeological evidence of agriculture at 9,000 B.C. in the Pakistan / Afghanistan area.

Mehrgarh seems to be the earliest agriculture there starting at 7,000 B.C., prior to Catal Hoyuk starting 7,500 B.C. in Anatolia.

Gobekli Tepe in Anatolia is vey unusual as it does date from around the Jercho and suggested Kharsag period. I'd have to make the point that Gobekli Tepe was not built at 10,000BC as suggested. The PPNA settlement has been dated only slightly prior to 9000 BC. There are remains of smaller houses from the PPNE and some few epipalaeolithic finds as well. There are a number of radio carbon dates: 8960 – 9559 – 9452 - 8430. While the settlement formally belongs to the earliest Neolithic (PPNA), up to now no traces of domesticated plants or animals have been found. The inhabitants were hunter gatherers.

The Tigris and the Euphrates were at the starting point of Sumerian civilization at Eridu c. 5,500 B.C. (along with writing soon after).

There were no recorded names for the Dan, Banias, Hasbani and Upper Jordan rivers at 9,500 B.C. when the agricultural revolution took place.

Those writing the Bible, whilst correctly talking about the heads of 4 rivers would have likely had to change the names to the earliest recorded in Sumer in a merge of those 2 time periods.

I'd therefore suggest that's why we don't have any rivers called Pison, Gihon or Hiddekel any more and all this speculation takes place about the stories.


Edited by paygan - 04-Feb-2011 at 13:15
"And there were in all two hundred who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon..." - Slavonic Book of Enoch 2 VI:6 VB
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2011 at 18:26
To understand more about the Garden of Eden, you must understand where that story came from.
 
The legend about the Garden of Eden has nothing to do with people in Afghanistan or Pakistan. The main religion of those people before Islam was Hinduism and not Zoroastrianism. Hinduism is not a monotheistic religion. But a polytheistic beliefe, because there’re more gods in that religion. And they don’t have stories about Adam and Eve.
The story about the Garden of Eden is the foundation of the monotheistic (and Abrahamic) religions. And the legend about the Garden of Eden doesn’t even originate in Semitic cultures. But in the Hurrian religions / cultures. The Hurrians were the northern neighbours of the Semitic people. The Semites were influenced by the Hurrians: their legends and their believes.
 
Even Judaism has it origins in the Hurrian religions. The Jews call their god JAHWEH. JAHWEH is a Hurrian word and doesn’t have Hebrew-Semitic roots.
 
The story of the "fallen angels" comes  from the northern parts of Mesopotamia. This legend is very important in a native Kurdish religion the Yezidism. It’s the beginning of the Yezidism. The legends about the Garden of Eden, fallen angels, Noah's ark etc. are Hurrians legends. Hurrians lived in the northern parts of the Mesopotamia / Kurdistan nowadays. And Kurds are a mix of the Hurrians and Medes. So if the Garden of Eden exist it must be somewhere in Kurdistan (northern parts of the Mesopotamia), the homeplace of the ancient Hurrians!


Edited by MediaWarLord - 04-Feb-2011 at 19:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Feb-2011 at 20:01
My dear MediaWarLord,

Perhaps you are a tad too quick to downplay the multiplicity of Gods actually mentioned in the so called Old Testament?

You might well note, that in the creation stories, the English translation of note (KJ), used both singular and plurals when describing how the multiple gods, acheived the creation!

According to my sources, not however provided, the Hebrew version not only uses male descriptors, but female, and plural forms of the gods of creation!

But, as in other things, I could well be incorrect?

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 04-Feb-2011 at 20:15
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2011 at 04:27
Originally posted by opuslola

My dear MediaWarLord,

Perhaps you are a tad too quick to downplay the multiplicity of Gods actually mentioned in the so called Old Testament?

You might well note, that in the creation stories, the English translation of note (KJ), used both singular and plurals when describing how the multiple gods, acheived the creation!

According to my sources, not however provided, the Hebrew version not only uses male descriptors, but female, and plural forms of the gods of creation!

But, as in other things, I could well be incorrect?

Regards,
Thank you sir, for sharing your knowledge! Didn't know about that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2011 at 22:16
There have been some interesting Neanderthal discoveries in Kurdistan, but no agriculture I can find near 9,500 B.C.

Hurrians are only recorded as having arrived in the Middle Bronze Age from not too much before 2,200 B.C., putting them contemporary to the Akkadians.

You've also highlighted some specific areas in my knowledge about the events interpreted by O'Brien in "Kharsag Epic 9" from the Nippur Tablets as a 1,000 year storm. Something stopped Jericho's development and other occupations in the Holy Lands around this time and it's an area for my further research. I've read about the event mostly from archaeological reports from nearby sites:

Interestingly enough Neba'a Faour forms a connecting link between the other sites concerned; it is situated roughly in the middle of the others mentioned here. Chronologically it appears from an extensive survey and soundings done in the Jordan Valley in 1953 and later work that this phase existed at the time of what is known as the hiatus palestinien when the Pre-Pottery B cultures of Jericho - Beidha - Sheikh Ali and Munhatta disappeared for good and their sites abandoned; in other words from about 6000-5500 BC ... Neolithic Neba'a Faour (in the Bekaa Valley, Lebanon - near Eden / Kharsag)The Neolithic of the Levant (1978)
A.M.T. Moore (Oxford University)


The point about the impact of the 'hiatus palestinien' and how it would have changed the courses of the Hasbani, Dan, Banias and Upper Jordan (which all flow to the West, and in the case of the Hasbani directly linked Westwards) is a highly interesting consideration.

Along with flood damage, extensive water erosion is shown on the best surviving limestone parts of the Great Watercourse indicating hundreds of years of water-flow.



Many sections have been bulldozed entirely to make way for orchards. The mound in the centre of the photo is one of the best surviving parts to the West leading to the Sinkhole.



Some sections are in slightly better condition leading back to the village of Kfar Qooq. All surviving sections are clearly visible on Google Earth.

[img[http://www.skyshot.co.uk/eden/rachaiya_day_2/IMG_7819.jpg[/img]

Inside the ditch sections is full of rubble and rubbish, with few parts of the original walls in place exposed and most covered in feet of earth.



Please find some more pictures of the site of prime archaeological importance that is in danger of being built on.

Here's the roadway up to the Great House of Eden (Kharsag) area that's in danger of getting built on (the new house already going up there, is one of several under construction around the site).

Any ideas how to protect and save it welcome!








Edited by paygan - 05-Feb-2011 at 22:18
"And there were in all two hundred who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon..." - Slavonic Book of Enoch 2 VI:6 VB
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2011 at 03:16
Originally posted by paygan

There have been some interesting Neanderthal discoveries in Kurdistan, but no agriculture I can find near 9,500 B.C.
" Agriculture: Moving back towards self-sufficiency.
 
Kurdistan is believed to be where humans first domesticated animals and planted crops. In a scientific publication by Rice University School of Science and Technology, it was reported, "Recent archaeological finds place the beginning of agriculture before 7000 B.C. and animal domestication (mostly dogs used as hunting aids) thousands of years before that. There is some evidence that the people of Shanidar, in Kurdistan, were domesticating sheep and planting wheat as long ago as 9800 B.C." "
 
 
 
Yeah, I know they found some Neandertal skeletons in in Kurdistan, dating between 60-80,000 years BP.
 
Like in this cave site of Shanidar located in the Zagros Mountains.
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2011 at 03:26
Agriculture and Animal Husbandry
 
10,500 years ago, agriculture originated in the hills around Gobekli Tepe. Archaeological evidence shows that wheat was grown and harvested, as well as other indigenous plants. Animals such as sheep, cattle and pigs were herded and used for their milk and meat. Dogs and cats were domesticated and probably used for pest control or to protect the harvest from rodents or thieves. An old man was even found buried with his canine companion. All of this was made possible by right-brain processing which involves emotion and future planning
 
Some Biblical scholars have also associated Gobekli Tepe with the myth of Eden. According to this interpretation, the myth refers to the transition from a hunter-gatherer society to one based on agriculture. The thinking is that the hunting-gathering lifestyle was easy and pleasant, at least in areas that were rich in resources. Agriculture, by contrast, involved a lot of work and was probably not very productive to begin with. The loss of Eden was the transition to agriculture, and may be a memory of what happened at Gobekli Tepe.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2011 at 00:57
The report by the Rice University above misrepresents the archaeological reports of Ralph Solecki who presents Shanidar as a burial cave with no evidence of agriculture at 9,800 B.C.  -

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bSVZKJQ5GmIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=shanidar+solecki&hl=en&ei=1ylSTeTyNYaShAexrrTXCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

You have taken Gary Vey from Viewzone out of context - he does state earlier in his article that "no concrete evidence has been found to demonstrate that the builders engaged in farming of animal herding" at Gobekli Tepe, which was buried when the agricultural revolution took place on the fields above. He hasn't misrepresented Klaus Schmidt, the lead archaeologist who dated the PPNA building only slightly prior to 9000 BC. There are remains of smaller houses from the PPNE and some few epipalaeolithic finds as well. There are a number of radio carbon dates: 8960 – 9559 – 9452 - 8430. While the settlement formally belongs to the earliest Neolithic (PPNA), up to now no traces of domesticated plants or animals have been found. The inhabitants were hunter gatherers.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/060602074522.htm


Oloho II, and Gilgal I make excellent supporting material for the "Kharsag Thesis". Archaeologists could not get much further North than Galilee before more problematic areas for research in The Golan and Lebanon. This is just over the border from Mount Hermon.

http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/kharsag/k21.jpg

Crop Assemblage in the early neolithic farming villages in South West Asia before 6,000 BC (uncalibrated radiocarbon dates) – Black squares indicate earliest sites dated to 8th millenium – Black circles later dates – Short whisker rare – Long whisker common (Adapted Zohary and Hopf 1993)

Zohary makes the suggestion in his paper about the development of cultivated grains having to have come from a single site. Quite a good analysis of this debate is provided by Steve Gagne here:

http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/965.php

http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/images/ten_probable_centres_of_agriculture_2007_475x315.jpg

Ten Probable Centers of Origin of Agriculture

From Tracing the Origin and Spread of Agriculture in Europe
by Ron Pinhasi, Joaquim Fort, Albert J. Ammerman.

The above maps show the ability to identify and accurately date a wide range of plant and bone remains, and reach reliable conclusions on the domestication of wild seeds and animals, provides examples of the many related sciences, which now allow history to be reconstructed in great detail. The earliest and therefore the most important sites for Near East Agriculture are Jericho, Tell Aswad and Abu Hureyra.

Since this information was compiled further discoveries with dating, emphasise the focus on Southern Lebanon as the source for the diffusion of domesticated agricultural crops and animals.

Domestication of Plants by Lloyd Pye - 2006

Domestication of plants and animals supposedly began as early as 11,000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent of the Near East (light brown area below). Two thousand years later it began in the New World in the highlands of Central America. This is puzzling because crops grown at altitude are much more labour intensive than in valleys. Also the technological leap from wild grains and grasses to useful foodstuffs has not been duplicated by modern botanists. No useful domesticated plants have been created for the last 5,000 years. So how did Stone Age hunter-gatherers living in mountains decide to miraculously converting wild grains and grasses into edible foodstuffs? As with megalithic structures, it seems highly improbable that ordinary humans could have done it

Geological Hazards of Lebanon by C.D. Walley

A main concern in Lebanon is that of earthquakes as the area is in an active region. Beirut has been destroyed many times by earthquakes and tsunami (tidal waves), most notably in 551 AD. Lesser quakes have occurred since. Even small earthquakes may have triggered landslides. A subtler hazard is that of soil erosion. The steep slopes of Lebanon and the high rainfall means that the soils, in many cases the product of thousands of years of formation, are easily eroded. These soils are not being replaced. Related to this are widespread landslides on various scales due to the steep slopes, wet winters and de-forestation. Geology has largely controlled the history of Lebanon. It has given the region its fertility with the high rainfall and excellent springs. However, this is localised, demands hard work to farm due to the steep slopes, and is easily destroyed. As a result wealth based on agriculture has not proved easy. Many Lebanese have traditionally migrated or gone into commerce. - Project Note - Deposits of sediment and erosion by water will create both problems and opportunities with the geophysical surveys and sediment core sampling required by the proposed research.

Methodology

As far as we know there has not been a full archaeological or environmental survey carried out on the site in the last 36 years. Dissertation research carried out by Lee Marfoe in 1979, who until his death in 2003 was the assistant professor at John Hopkins University and the Oriental Institute/NELC, was concerned with the long-term development of settlement, population and society in the Beqaa Plateau in the Lebanon. We hope that our initial survey, together with available works by others, will encourage a wide range of contributions to add significantly to the knowledge and understanding of site.

Ordered protohistoric agricultural people became evident in the archaeological record at about 10,000 BC, in the Near and Middle East, and comparative research by:

Zohary 1999
Hillman 1996
Postgate 1994
Maisels 1994,1993
Fagan 1990
Wenke 1990
Clutton-Brock et al 1989
Nissen 1988
Clark 1977

confirms this, indicating the tenacity of human populations to occupy and settle in post-glacial environments (Holocene).


I believe I have gathered together the above key scientific evidence supporting the delivery of an existing farming package and confirmation of a 'Biblical' diffusion from Southern Lebanon, from perhaps as early as 8,750 BC, if the recalibration of old dating methods and recent dating techniques ultimately prove accurate.

Over time it will be necessary for further contributions to be made by others to prove or disprove this basic thesis. Fortunately there are many other sources available yet to be fully explored, and a great deal of old evidence, which we hope to recover and re-present in our collective search to piece together and confirm the more detailed record.

References:

Origins of Agriculture by Professor Daniel Zohary – 1993

Tracing the Origin and Spread of Agriculture in Europe Ron Pinhasi, Joaquim Fort, Albert J. Ammerman.

THE ORIGINS AND SPREAD OF AGRICULTURE AND PASTORALISM IN EURASIA - Edited by Professor David Russell Harris




Edited by paygan - 09-Feb-2011 at 07:45
"And there were in all two hundred who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon..." - Slavonic Book of Enoch 2 VI:6 VB
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2011 at 04:12
Originally posted by paygan

The report by the Rice University above misrepresents the archaeological reports of Ralph Solecki who presents Shanidar as a burial cave with no evidence of agriculture at 9,800 B.C. 
I don't understand you. They didn't misinterpreted the results - which were examined by Solecki - .  Ralph Solecki called the people of Shanidar, who lived 9,800 BC, "the proto-neolithic" people. They belonged to the same species ( proto-farmers ) who caused the Neolithic Revolution in Fertile Crescent = Mesopotamia + Levant.
 
 
Originally posted by paygan

Similarly, Gary Vey from Viewzone seems unaware that Gobekli Tepe was buried ... ... While the settlement formally belongs to the earliest Neolithic (PPNA), up to now no traces of domesticated plants or animals have been found. The inhabitants were hunter gatherers.
Ten Probable Centers of Origin of Agriculture 

The earliest and therefore the most important sites for Near East Agriculture are Jericho, Tell Aswad and Abu Hureyra.
With all due respect and I don't want to be ignorant, but your theory is full of paradoxes.
Abu Hureyra is not really in Lebanon, and not so far away from Gobekli Tepe. The Fertile Crescent is not only the Levant but also the Mesopotamia.
 
The earliest Neolithic or the proto-neolithic people = people who revolutionized the agriculture. How can the people of Gobekli Tepe be proto-neolithic (proto-farmers) if they were only hunter gatherers?
  
ten_probable_centres_of_agriculture


Edited by MediaWarLord - 09-Feb-2011 at 04:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2011 at 10:23
Now we're getting close - the Pinhasi map you posted is excellent evidence and our debate is really focussing on the most likely dates and earliest Tells WITH agricultural evidence. You are not ignorant at all but getting very close to a realistic picture here. Studying all of these sites in depth is needed and we are not doing that enough.

I was shocked to find that there wasn't even a Wikipedia page about Tell Aswad pictured on your map there, which does indeed turn out to be a very interesting, and closer site to Rashaya / Kharsag / Eden displaying numerous similarities, which can also be seen in the satellite imagery here. They have evidence of agriculture here exceptionally early, right next to Kharsag.

I am beginning to consider it better supporting evidence than Jericho or Tell Abu Huyera.

I created a basic Wikipedia page on Tell Aswad last night. Anyone fluent in French or German wanting to help me further update it from original reports would be welcome!


Edited by paygan - 09-Feb-2011 at 10:29
"And there were in all two hundred who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon..." - Slavonic Book of Enoch 2 VI:6 VB
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2011 at 15:11
As I said in this thread: Twelve Magi from Shir, Kingdom of Paradise?, Garden of Eden was in the northeast of Iran between four great rivers in this region, Tigris and Euphrates in the west and Amu Darya (Jayhoun/Gihon) and Indus (Pishor/Pishon) in the east. Before Jericho, Shanidar and etc, there was Belt Cave in the northeast of Iran:
 
 


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 09-Feb-2011 at 15:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2011 at 16:02
I just read your newly created site! A very professional job it seems!

I just wanted you and the rest of our members or visitors, who peruse this very site, to consider to always check the "discussion page" at every Wikipedia site, and see just what others (like me) might have written or suggested!

The intellectual attitude towards Wikipedia is mostly bull! Some teachers, for example, will not allow Wiki as a source, since these "high-brow" asses, do not consider anything written without a "PHD" behind the authors name, as being a reason to ignore Wiki!

Regards,
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2011 at 17:09
What does it means Eden?Please let us make efforts for precise linguistic description of word!?I will start:"First from/to deity,mother's"(place?)In this moment we need more linguistic descriptions.Here You are!?!
personal names were given to children that were first born:
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/0/Eden


Edited by medenaywe - 10-Feb-2011 at 02:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2011 at 17:20
Originally posted by MediaWarLord

To understand more about the Garden of Eden, you must understand where that story came from.
 
The legend about the Garden of Eden has nothing to do with people in Afghanistan or Pakistan. The main religion of those people before Islam was Hinduism and not Zoroastrianism. Hinduism is not a monotheistic religion. But a polytheistic beliefe, because there’re more gods in that religion. And they don’t have stories about Adam and Eve.
The story about the Garden of Eden is the foundation of the monotheistic (and Abrahamic) religions. And the legend about the Garden of Eden doesn’t even originate in Semitic cultures. But in the Hurrian religions / cultures. The Hurrians were the northern neighbours of the Semitic people. The Semites were influenced by the Hurrians: their legends and their believes.
 
Even Judaism has it origins in the Hurrian religions. The Jews call their god JAHWEH. JAHWEH is a Hurrian word and doesn’t have Hebrew-Semitic roots.
 
The story of the "fallen angels" comes  from the northern parts of Mesopotamia. This legend is very important in a native Kurdish religion the Yezidism. It’s the beginning of the Yezidism. The legends about the Garden of Eden, fallen angels, Noah's ark etc. are Hurrians legends. Hurrians lived in the northern parts of the Mesopotamia / Kurdistan nowadays. And Kurds are a mix of the Hurrians and Medes. So if the Garden of Eden exist it must be somewhere in Kurdistan (northern parts of the Mesopotamia), the homeplace of the ancient Hurrians!
 
learn history dude, the main religions of afghanistan and northern pakistan was Zoroastrianism and Buddhism before islam. Hinduism also existed, however their numbers were much smaller. Hinduism as a religion is mainly a religion of east of indus river, especially the indian gangetic plains, it's effect west of indus river were limited.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2011 at 17:24
also regarding this thread, my personal opinion is that Garden of Eden existed in Arabia, Arabia was very green at one point in time, maybe 10,000-15000 years ago. Having lived in saudi arabia, there is a legend there that huge forests, lakes, rivers exist under the sands of arabian deserts.
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