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World's oldest lion sculpture: 30.000 BC Germany
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: World's oldest lion sculpture: 30.000 BC Germany
    Posted: 18-Jan-2011 at 15:33
West-central Europe has  the world's oldest known figurative sculptures.  The Swabian Jura in Germany holds the record.  One of the oldest examples is the “Lion-human of Hohlenstein” from ca. 30.000 BC. (1)
 
     
Lion(ess)-human, ivory, Germany 30.000 BC
 
Some sort of lion-human cult was practiced in Paleo-lithic Europe. Lion(ess)-human figures  also appear much later in other regions, like Egypt and the Middle-East.
Was the lion-human cult diffused to these places? Are there intermediates to fill in the chronological gap?  The Balkan or Caucasus, perhaps?
 
 
    
 
Left: Egypt 4000 BC
 
Right: Elam, Iran 3000 BC, limestone
    
 
 
 
 
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Edited by Sander - 18-Jan-2011 at 15:41
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Posts: 28 		  Quote TheNode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2011 at 18:59
This would have been pre-migration of IE people/s?
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2011 at 18:39

Originally posted by TheNode

This would have been pre-migration of IE people/s?

Well... I m wondering if there is good evidence of a  lion-human cult in the  Balkan or Caucasus, before 4000 BC.   
 
(Whether 4000 BC is pre-IE or  Proto IE depends on the place and on which IE model is followed.)
 
  
 
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Edited by Sander - 20-Jan-2011 at 18:52
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2011 at 18:57
Cryptic, just how was the Swabian Jura period lion dated?

Or was it merely discovered within the "Swabian Jura" period strata, whereby the reported carved Venus figure was located?


Since I can no longer "copy and paste" then I would ask if it is not from the same genre' of "Swabian-Jura-Ivory carvings", which can probably be found under a Google search with the same words?

If so, then Elephants, and other animals of the same age have also been recovered! Just what would make the Lion special?

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Edited by opuslola - 20-Jan-2011 at 19:08
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Posts: 28 		  Quote TheNode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2011 at 21:06
Originally posted by opuslola

Cryptic, just how was the Swabian Jura period lion dated?

Or was it merely discovered within the "Swabian Jura" period strata, whereby the reported carved Venus figure was located?


Since I can no longer "copy and paste" then I would ask if it is not from the same genre' of "Swabian-Jura-Ivory carvings", which can probably be found under a Google search with the same words?

If so, then Elephants, and other animals of the same age have also been recovered! Just what would make the Lion special?

Regards,

I agree with opuslola. Wasn't there a lion population in Europe that has become extinct, it could have been the carvings found in the Balkans were a result of cultural diffusion.
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2011 at 23:00
Originally posted by opuslola

Cryptic, just how was the Swabian Jura period lion dated?

Or was it merely discovered within the "Swabian Jura" period strata, whereby the reported carved Venus figure was located?


Since I can no longer "copy and paste" then I would ask if it is not from the same genre' of "Swabian-Jura-Ivory carvings", which can probably be found under a Google search with the same words?

If so, then Elephants, and other animals of the same age have also been recovered! Just what would make the Lion special?

Regards,
 
Sure  you want Cryptic to answer?
 
 
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2011 at 15:27
Sorry "Sander", I made a serious and stupid mistake! Of course I meant to type in the name "Sander!"

So, if you could please excuse me, could the personage known as "Sander" please respond?

I would certainly rather that the respondant that lives within the fog, and darkness of the "Nether-lands", should respond!

Regarde' vous!

Edited by opuslola - 22-Jan-2011 at 17:01
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Posts: 597 		  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2011 at 19:50
The Lion’s material and associated material from the same layer was carbondated to ca 32.000 BC. The layer is Aurignacian. The site is known as Hohlenstein-Stadel.
Googling for “ Ivory carvings from the Swabian Jura” leads to the same Aurignacian culture and region,  but there are different sites and  collections of ivory figures. The famous water-bird and horsehead  for example are from the Hohle Fels Cave.
 
For more info on  the Aurignacian culture and the various dating methodes (C14, TL,  archaeological layers, tools etc.) see this paper :
 
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Posts: 362 		  Quote Azadi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2011 at 11:21
Isn't that the the Guennol Lioness ?
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