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Just where was Babylon? |
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opuslola 
Tsar 
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
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 Topic: Just where was Babylon?Posted: 16-Feb-2011 at 10:01 |
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Why don't we all try to think about this subject a little?
It is obvious that the location of the Tower and Hanging Gardens, of Babylon, was conceived and made certain by Biblical Scholars, as well as Biblical Archaeologists, with some of the "expertise" provided by long dead writers, whose words are only available to us today as "ancedotal facts!" The first explosion of world wide interest (Western Europe, etc.) came from the exploration of the ruins existing within or near to the Tigris and Euphrates rivers! Hundreds of German, French and Englsh "relic diggers" attacked the ruins and carted off tens of thousands of artefacts to private collectors and museums in the West, and made the area affected famous while writing books concerning their amazing finds and stories of their struggles, etc.! It was only later that the same type of "diggers" attacked Egypt with the same vigor, and especially after the great age of the Egyptian remains were determined! It soon became apparent that the dating of the remains found in the area of Iraq, etc., did not mesh with the newly accepted dating of similar remains, found in Egypt! And a war of words began, with one side or the other claiming their dating system was the correct one! Eventually the Egyptian scheme was almost forcefully accepted and scholars of the Tigris/Euphrates civilizations were forced to either accept the new scheme or be ridiculed, and many of those scholars decided to merely retire! Soon of course this new dating scheme began to butt heads with the dating scheme of Bible Chronology! And this fight continues until the present! It is because of such discrepencies that within the realm of chronology studies, that the Biblical times of Saul,Devid, Solomon, etc., is proposed to have only been a created story/period, since the archaeology (as understood today) does not leave room for them nor does it provide any archaeological support for the cities supposedly developed by them! To be continued! Edited by opuslola - 17-Feb-2011 at 20:25 |
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medenaywe
AE Moderator 
Master of Meanings Joined: 06-Nov-2010 Location: / Online Status: Offline Posts: 17084 |
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Posted: 16-Feb-2011 at 14:59 |
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Now I agree with You!What we are looking for was first one that have to be described.If we are looking today for Dalai Lama temple nobody will mention Lhasa or place nearby much bigger than temple.Those days also "going to Babylon" meant "going to temple".Isolated temple on the top of the hill is our goal!
This does not means that real location of original temple have to stay secret! Edited by medenaywe - 16-Feb-2011 at 15:00 |
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opuslola
Tsar
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
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Posted: 16-Feb-2011 at 15:51 |
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But, just why does it have to be isolated? A hill can be small or large, or merely the man made hills found all over Syria and Iraq, etc.! Hundreds of them!
But, it seems for one reason, and one reason, one of these "hills" was determined to have been the Babylon of the Bible! And, it was the effect of Biblical Scholars that made it so and no real facts! That is no archaeologist has ever found a carved stone, or incised brick, that states "Here is Babyon, the home to the great gardens and tower", etc.! NO! That information was merely "fill!" It is only our currently accepted dating system that allows a much earlier date for the sparce remains of anything resembling either a tower or gardens, ever found in the remains of disintergrated mud bricks that are today considered as Babylon! Thus, remains from the Roman era "Babylon" are considered as way to young to be the Biblical city of the Old Testament! But, the Holy Qur'an does not eliminate the possibility! In that book Moses and Aaron, are but uncles or cousins, of Mary and Jesus, etc.! The Qur'an seems to have distilled and compressed the "extended history" taught by the Jews, etc.? Literally hundreds (if not a thousand or more) of years are eliminated by it! Imanuel Velikovsky and Sir Isaac Newton did the same! Capiche? So, just which version do you rely upon? In this case, I would support the Holy Qur'an, or Newton, or Velikovsky! Regards, |
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medenaywe
AE Moderator
Master of Meanings Joined: 06-Nov-2010 Location: / Online Status: Offline Posts: 17084 |
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Posted: 16-Feb-2011 at 16:38 |
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You expose us second problem:Was this story real?And third one:Were scripts we are using reedited before?I had told my mother,professional historian,on age of 12 that except dates/months/years and some names there were small amount of facts inside history books.But we need first storyteller for every specific tale that we have!Than we need:1. was this happened for real2.was story objective and 3.were there other versions of same story.Small number of documents we have that fulfill all above!?!Even latest history documents were destroyed ,after wars were lost by losers also incriminated those by winners(New personal identity for Nazi scientists in America or Katyn massacre in Katyn forest in Poland by Russians).
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opuslola
Tsar
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
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Posted: 16-Feb-2011 at 17:00 |
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From your above post it seems we agree on about 75% (or better) concerning our views towards the currently accepted version(s) of the past!
1. Almost all historians will admit that they are "story tellers!", at least if they are hooked to a special machine! 
2. Upon close examination, fact most often becomes "ancedotal!" or worse! 3. Where ever one finds examples of historical accounts that very suspiciously resemble other accounts of differing dates, one might well suspect that some duplication might well have occurred, rather than using the tired cliche', "history tends to repeat itself!" see; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clich%C3%A9 Well of course it does if more than one account displays numerous similarities to another event in a differing time, that should raise alarms, but usually does not! Got to go! Regards, |
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opuslola
Tsar
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
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Posted: 17-Feb-2011 at 20:30 |
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medenaywe, Did I loose you?
I certainly expected a reply to my above posting? Maybe I will suggest that the origin of the Biblica word/term, "Sion"/"Zion" refers to a "high place" in Switzerland! Please feel free to look it up? Oh the hell with it! Here are some suggestions; please copy and past the entirety of the below! Do not stop at Switzerland%.! http://www.bing.com/search?q=Sion%20switzerland%20photos&pc=conduit&form=CONTLB&ptag=A5DC7BAE8890B42A4A3F&conlogo=CT2392836 There is obviously a "high place" of the "temple" (of El) and another "high place" of the house of the "Lord!"/ruler! Please see the full size image here; http://image03.webshots.com/3/8/17/86/1581786VMJylNyfsn_ph.jpg Wonderful and almost Biblical is it not? http://www.biblestudytools.com/song-of-solomon/1-6-compare.html Note that local history reveals that the Saracens once conquered and lived in this very area! Edited by opuslola - 17-Feb-2011 at 20:44 |
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medenaywe
AE Moderator
Master of Meanings Joined: 06-Nov-2010 Location: / Online Status: Offline Posts: 17084 |
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Posted: 14-May-2011 at 15:16 |
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Zion would have been some kind Oracle,temple where you went for destiny prediction or advice.Sion and it's meaning was connected with something could not have been recognized still by me.Context was similar as "Go to hell"!This one and Sitina Goddess were connected somehow?!?But this hill looks very original for place of temple:(all above,were language analysis)
http://www.google.com/images?q=jerusalem+great+temple,images&hl=en&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&oi=image_result_group&sa=X |
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opuslola
Tsar
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
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Posted: 13-Jul-2011 at 18:33 |
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But what medenaywe would be the result if the Sion, referred to above was really located in Switzerland?
Regards, |
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medenaywe
AE Moderator
Master of Meanings Joined: 06-Nov-2010 Location: / Online Status: Offline Posts: 17084 |
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Posted: 14-Jul-2011 at 01:43 |
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And Ithaca was in Adriatic sea also?Explain your proof Oppy!Give us facts here!You are the one that deserve
lifetime reward,"More banned than present",in this forum!Ditto!  Edited by medenaywe - 14-Jul-2011 at 03:23 |
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shokdee
Knight 
Spammer Joined: 16-Jul-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 67 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2011 at 00:21 |
Classic!  Pull out the old maps, let's see where the cartographers placed "Babylon". Some candy floss: Siam = Zion Ayudhya = Judea |
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opuslola
Tsar
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
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Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 16:11 |
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Well, here is one that does not show Babylon (I will most more on Babylon in Egypt later) but it does show the valley (mostly in present day Switzerland) that shows not only "Sion" (called Sitten on the map) but a bunch of other interesting places and place names that are in need of translation, etc.!
One might also note that this map has North on the bottom! I forgot to enter the address; http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Stumpf_Froschauer_Landtaflen_Wallis.jpg Regards, Edited by opuslola - 26-Jul-2011 at 16:28 |
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medenaywe
AE Moderator
Master of Meanings Joined: 06-Nov-2010 Location: / Online Status: Offline Posts: 17084 |
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Posted: 27-Jul-2011 at 00:11 |
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Are there hot springs and spa centers?Hole in earth was primary for Oracle predictions!I am not kidding,all
is written in the name,Zion.(Sion?)"Speaks hole..." |
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shokdee
Knight
Spammer Joined: 16-Jul-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 67 |
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Posted: 27-Jul-2011 at 05:11 |
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Lovely map. I found Sitten, but it's not yet clear why this
would be Zion. How did the "t" get in zTn not zn ? Nothing stands out from the surrounding
geography or place names where the towns are already watched over by the Black Eagle, so why this place? ... For fun, have a look at this close up from a famous map, see the Sphinx and Pyramids are really in TARTARIA. http://chronologia.org/xpon4/im/4n04-007.jpg
>>> Diversion to possibly related comments from *Russian* scene >>> Ermakov's group argue famous Czech reformer Jan Hus (1371-1415) was Jesus/Genghis and Bethlehem, Prague, is the birth of Christ - http://chronologia.org/dcforum/DCForumID2/11311.html Astrakhan writes Jan Hus is a fiction created on demands of Martin-we-are-all-Hussites-Luther - http://chronologia.org/dcforum/DCForumID2/739.html Bethlehem in the medieval Czech Republic - http://chronologia.org/dcforum/DCForumID2/824.html <<< end diversion |
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Monkey see monkey do be doobie do
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opuslola
Tsar
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
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Posted: 27-Jul-2011 at 11:02 |
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Shokdee, a wonderful map. Do you have access to the unshown parts of it?
As a matter of fact your site, which is entirely written in Russian it seems, which interested readers can explore at this address; http://chronologia.org/ Has a mass of interesting books, including many by the Fomenko Group. Always a shame for me, since I can read no Russian or German, and have to rely upon the few poor English translations that emerge irregularly. Please continue. |
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opuslola
Tsar
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
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Posted: 31-Dec-2013 at 06:35 |
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By the way, Sitten is merely the German word for "The Seat of the Bishop!", which Sion was at one time. Note that the castle of the Bishop overlooks the church itself, Does not the Bible mention that David or Solomon was able to overlook the Temple?
Ron |
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medenaywe
AE Moderator
Master of Meanings Joined: 06-Nov-2010 Location: / Online Status: Offline Posts: 17084 |
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Posted: 31-Dec-2013 at 07:58 |
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Zi-iON=Zion=Lingual&Linguistic&Significant nest is realized¬iced by&with&in Zion.
Lingual&Sign nest realizes¬ices&fulfills Zion.
Happy New Year Ron!  (I prefer,nadenaj(j=Y)=divine genuine) Meden is also good!Edited by medenaywe - 31-Dec-2013 at 17:05 |
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opuslola
Tsar
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
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Posted: 31-Dec-2013 at 17:02 |
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Happy New Year medenaywe, and all others.
Regards, Ron |
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Arthur-Robin
General 
Joined: 23-Feb-2006 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 937 |
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Posted: 01-Jan-2014 at 08:28 |
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Not sure if the original question was about Babylon in Iraq or the Tower of Babel or Babylon in Egypt?
It seems that Nimrod/Babel/Shinar is probably connected with Ninurta/Sumeria and one of the 8 cities on 3 lines converging at Sippar in Sitchin's papers. some incomplete lists of just a few possible candidates: (tower of) babel ("gateway" [gold head]) : ~ babylon/hanging gardens (david down)? borsippa ("tongue tower" nebuchadnezzar/grant jeffrey)? e-babbar/sippar? nippur/duranki? bad-tibira? uruk (courville/crisler)? eridu/nunki (rohl)? Behbahan? ziggurat Jiroft/konar? ecbatana (deioces/memnon "7 circles/stages/colours"/"citadel supposdly had a circumference of 7stades built of cedar & cypress....silver or gold" herodotus [cf jim allen])? zanbil (susinak & napirisa)? ziggurat on kazan drogue stone? site in turkey/euphrates (wyatt/patterson)? ullikummi? nimrud dagh? byblos? "babylon"/bab-el-Luq/cairo/Giza (egypt)? bab el mandeb catastrophe? zimbabwe? stargate (7/8 chevrons "egyptian/celtic")? puebla? whare/house centre back fish Maui? shinar/shingar/shinear [sangara (Egyptian)] ~ din.gir/tengri (gir "rocket" sitchin)? senkereh (larsa)? S(h)umer/kiengin? jebel sinjar (north iraq/yezidis)? konar? shushinak? an-shan? Senjirli (Samal)? Senir (Hermon/Anti-Lebanon)? siriadic land? thinis/this? zinj? zungaria? shangrila? shambhala? china? songhay? salisbury plain? erech [enoch?] ~ eridu/nunki? larak? uruk/unuk/warka? iraq? tell fara? larsa? jericho? accad ~ agade? lagash? sippar? telAgrab? baghdad? nimrod/nebrod (Hebrew) "mighty hunter, 1st world leader, founded 1st civilisation [= agriculture], son of cush" ~ ninurta (Sumer) "horned helmet, hero of pantheon, [chase], war/warrior, plough/farmer/cultivation of crops"? ningirsu/nimirud (Waddell)? martu? Marduk? Enmer-kar (Rohl)? Nibiru? Ninus? Gaya Maretan/gayomart? Napiris(h)a? Narmer(za)? Min/Menes? kings son of kush? nimroud (ethiopian)? Nommo son of Amma? Numitorem (Samoyed/Vogul) "animals, culture hero, growing crops saving deluge survivors from starvation"? Nemquetcha (Muyscaya) "culture hero/leader [after flood]"? cush (who some think built Babel) ~ ukusi/unzi? agushe? kur? kish? cutha? kassite? Kusheh Dagh? susinak? koh? (cai) caous? hindu kush? (kings son of) kush/kesh/ethiopia? |
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opuslola
Tsar
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
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Posted: 02-Jan-2014 at 20:32 |
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Actually, I really proposed that the original Babylon, was in Egypt!
It solves a lot of the Alexander problems, and there was actually a place near Cairo, called Babylon and there was a river thru it, and there was even an aqueduct, and possibly "Hanging Gardens?". since there still resided the famous "Hanging Church!" And piles of brick debris and dust, does not a Ziggurat make! Ron Edited by opuslola - 02-Jan-2014 at 20:39 |
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opuslola
Tsar
suspended Joined: 23-Sep-2009 Location: Long Beach, MS, Online Status: Offline Posts: 4620 |
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Posted: 02-Jan-2014 at 20:49 |
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Another view of Sion, in Switzerland!
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Sion+switzerland+photos&id=889EB41E898F17C4AE5F096F06D110B0B8DCFD13&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=F83A04644C04D34F4A591ADEB43FEDF7F0E90462&selectedIndex=54 Seems that I got at least one point and click to work. No it did not! Heck. Ron Edited by opuslola - 02-Jan-2014 at 20:55 |
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