Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Priams Gold, Or Adventures in Illicit Archaeology

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Priams Gold, Or Adventures in Illicit Archaeology
    Posted: 30-Dec-2010 at 10:08
To start with, the Gold treasure that Schliemann found and attributed to Priam was in fact approx. 1,000 years older than the Trojan war.  This fact doesn't detract from the importance of the find.  But it does bring forward the fact that there is more than one "Trojan Treasure"  Okay, so there isn't any ties to Troy.  The following details the story of the gold which was purchased by the U of P and was the collection that I worked on.
 
 
 
 
BTW-  The museum paid 10,000 US for the collection. A bargain, no matter the economy at the time.  It's been estimated that if the collection were put up on Christies it might actually bring a price over one Billion.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2010 at 10:26
Don't be too quick to brand something as a hoax.  Particularly when the subject is as old as this is.  If your reading someone's hypothesis, does this person have an agenda?  Is he building a name using an incident that occurred a hundred + years ago, because there isn't anyone left alive to argue with him?
 
The Mask of Agamemnon was 1,000 years older than the level of Hisarlik that Schliemann was on.  There have been several others similar to Schliemann's that have been found in neighboring regions.  The death mask was a very common burial accessory.  Made from gold if the subject had enough money.
Yes, Schliemann hid his discoveries for some time.  That's because he did not have permission to dig at the time he found the objects in question.  He also wouldn't have been able to secret the treasure out of Turkey had any authorities been even slightly aware.
Most of the controversy rises from accusations made by a hired digger who apparently had a personal problem with Schliemann.  His accusations were discredited many times over many years.  So much so that it makes me wonder if the person writing the story has actually done much research or do they have an agenda of their own. 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Schliemann.  His attitudes toward excavations were exactly why there are professional archaeologists today.  He was arrogant, egotistical and narcissistic.  And in his mind, any end justified his means.  I am however defending the authenticity of what he found.  I'm also restating that what he found was not a "one of a kind" event.  This is evidenced by the mere fact that other so called "Trojan Treasures" have been found since about 1900.  Unless you have actually seen a full collection of artifacts from one of these finds, you can't really appreciate the degree of skill it took to produce some of these objects and you can't visualize the amount of time it took.   If you just take the "Headdress" that Schliemann's wife modeled for a pic op. The amount of work that went into just that item, would be enough to put off any intelligent forger.  [ And remember, we are talking of a collection that contained several hundred items, all complex and all of them expertly executed]
 
A personal experience- I was invited to observe an archaeological dig at a middle archaic Amerind site here in NJ.  When the long awaited Archaeologist arrived towing a Case 530 Backhoe, I left.
If Schliemann were alive that is a piece of equipment that he would have fallen in love with.
 
 


Edited by red clay - 31-Dec-2010 at 10:38
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2010 at 12:14
Schliemann is early model of tomb rider.Was any big conflict on territory of Asia Minor between Persia and Egypt during the period of Priam's life?
Was any during real estimated time of Trojan war?
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2011 at 11:46
Dear redclay! Schliemann, Elgin, and numerous other western gentlemen, etc., literally destroyed much of the archaeological treasures of Athens. Schliemann, it seems, paid for the distruction of a 21 meter tall tower, that stood behind the little temple of "Nike-Athena", since it was declared to be "a tower of the Middle Ages", and not worth saving, etc.!

You can read about it here;


http://www.scribd.com/doc/9647635/History-Fiction-or-Science-1

Pages 422 to 434 or so!

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 19-Jan-2011 at 11:53
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2011 at 11:53
Dear red! Yes H.S. was merely a digger and dis"troy"er!

But, did you know that he also did a lot of distruction in Athens? Along with rich French, English, German and others, including the Catholic church, hundreds of sites within greater Athens and especially upon the Acropolis, were denuded of any evidence that these "experts", declared as "Not Ancient", or if a site was declared as being from the Middle Ages, it was merely blown up, knocked down, and discarded as fill, rubbish, etc.!

The early restorationists made things fit if they did not find it to fit into place! If you see what is left upon the top, you will see very few actual structures but a lot of foundations! Everything that these amateur explorers saw, that did not remind them of their idea of what "Ancient Greece" should look like, was removed over a period of 50 to sixty years!

One piece that was actually photographed, was a great tower, that stood right behind the now standing small "Temple of Nike-Athena". Inspection of the stones that made up this defensive tower, or maybe "Bell Tower?", indicates that they were exactly like the building stones that now form the base for the "Nike" temple! The base of cut stones, is, I believe, now considered to be part of the very ancient foundation of the Acropolis, I.e., possibly Mycenaean!

As a matter of interest it is said that it was Schliemann "who financed the distruction of the 21 metre tall tower built on the site of the Propylaea in the Middle Ages..."

Information and photographs concerning the above can be found in the online book "History: Fiction or Science", Chapter 7, pages 422 to 434!

These very pages can be viewed here;

http://www.scribd.com/doc/9647635/History-Fiction-or-Science-1

Sorry about the double postings! It seems the wonders of computers will not allow me to copy and paste the above address, thus I have had to type it in by hand!

Just how can "copy and paste" stop working?

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 19-Jan-2011 at 11:56
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2011 at 12:35
Do you have answers about this questions?
Was any big conflict on territory of Asia Minor between Persia and Egypt during the period of Priam's life?
Was any during real estimated time of Trojan war?
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2011 at 18:12
The so called Trojan War, is dated (by our current establishemt) so far into our past that little is known of the conditions of the day, other than some mere suppositons, and supposed connections!

Regards,
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2011 at 10:35
Regarding my above post concerning the distruction of historical sites in Athens, etc., you had the ability to see a photograph or two, centering upon the already "reconstructed" temple of Nike-Athena, in the 1860's of the Current Era! And, if you have viewed these old photographs, you will have had to notice the large tower built of cut and fitted stones, that was located behind the small temple and its platform! And, as mentioned above, you can easily see the resemblance of these cut and fitted stones to the ones that made up the great tower!

Now, I would ask you to compare the 19th century photos to a modern one?

See this site; http//www.sacred-destinations.com/greece/athens-temple-of-athena-nike
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2011 at 11:37
Originally posted by medenaywe

Do you have answers about this questions?
Was any big conflict on territory of Asia Minor between Persia and Egypt during the period of Priam's life?
Was any during real estimated time of Trojan war?
 
 
I don't know about any conflicts between Persia and Egypt.  I do know that there has been no evidence of a large Bronze age battle found at Hisarlik.  Strange, if that is the site of Troy.
 
I don't believe the Trojan war happened as far back as Opuslola thinks.  In fact, I'm starting to lean more to the gentleman who states the Trojan war wasn't fought in Turkey, but in England.  The evidence he sites is more than a little compelling.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2011 at 15:47

Dear redclay, just where in the world did you conceive of the idea that I Ron Hughes (aka Opuslola) believes this is an ancient event? The most I have ever said is "supposed!", etc.!

But, if one believes that Eastern Emigrants to England, etc., might well have brought their stories there, then I am in that boat! And, I am well in the boat of the very story happening in England, as you now are considering, and as well I would support it happening in Finland, etc.!

Everything modern historians, and their predecessors, have written about it is full of crap! It may very well just be a "story!",or "fable?"

Regards, (please note my name below the regards!)
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2011 at 15:57
If any of you actually think that you know as much about ancient Athens as I know, then we could make a large bet?

But since, for some unknown reason, my computer will not now let me "copy and paste" my sources, I will have to resort to letting you guys and gals, do the searching!

For a great overview of my information, besides the photos given to you by the Fomenko source above, I would suggest that you merely "Google" Athens in 3D, etc,?

Yes! I tried it and it works! You will be connected to the English site, if you pick option 2, and then you merely have to chose your history periods to see the changes in the Acropolis! And, I'll bet you never even knew anything about these changes, if you had a modern education following the "experts!" in the field!

You will notice that the small temple of Athena Nike, etc., seems to remain in the same place, upon the same walls, for a long time! Even the takeover of Athens by the Heruli in 267, and a later sack by the Saracens, seems not to have changed things at all?

You will also be able to see the mass of building that was disposed of between 1800 Ce and 1900 CE! But, be assured that no really ancient stuff was torn down or demolished by gunpowder! Wink!

I don't go to the trouble to post this stuff to make any of you mad, but merely to "enlighten" some of you to "stuff" you were never taught,nor I suppose, to find out on your own! You know, looking stuff up without an "expert" leading you! laugh!

Regards, (please see my real name below, where it has existed since I joined this forum!)

Edited by opuslola - 20-Jan-2011 at 16:16
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2011 at 02:02
It is more than evident that those stories look similar with Prince of Persia.Purpose of scripts also
shows us how ancient "propaganda" looks like!!!Sinbad the Sailor and Iliad and Odyssey  were created like story tails to glorify nations entity and provoke children imaginations for their future professions."How  old and brave  we were  my child"  is  basic  inside.Two civilizations that had created two scripts,are Danayan and Persian.
    Maybe they are something like"Greatest hits of...",compilation of best tailed stories.Locations  where battles were,are everywhere where are leaving people ancestors of those two civilizations.
   History needs original scripts written in original languages that are dating near the time of creation.
  


Edited by medenaywe - 21-Jan-2011 at 14:57
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2011 at 16:53
Yes mendenaywe, you might well be correct? Cerainly there exists some evidence that some of these stories were not based upon any facts what-so-ever!

The acts of "Story tellers" abounds in the past, and especially in the Middle Ages! If you are a follower of our currently accepted scheme of the past, (or as some call it the "consensual history"?), then you would be surprised to see that certain "story tellers" of the past actually seemed to connect living persons as living with and amongst persons now thought to be long dead, some for multiple hundreds of years!

But? What if these "minstrels"/Historians of the past?, etc., actually told the truth?

Regards,
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2011 at 17:19
Here we stop.Myths or legends we have above?Still unbusted.
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2011 at 17:26
Mendenaywe, perhaps you don't understand my premise? Which is that we can little stand to believe anything before the inventions of both relatively cheap paper and the printing presses!

This is the beginning of the period where by numerous copies of lies, as well as truth, could be produced and distributed in mass, which led to mass agreement with both!

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 21-Jan-2011 at 17:26
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2011 at 18:02
Premise understood.Even reasons for this i have in my hand.Accidentally my work is connected with this
story.Iliad and Odyssey is part of stolen history rewritten with that reason.But until official publishing of my work this is good enough.Original language can prove it and hope will be soon that.I believe original script was written not in Phoenician/Greek.Original we need.Maybe somewhere  in desert  sand,is waiting for us?
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2011 at 13:53
Mendenaywe! So you have a manuscript in hand? I hope you can reveal parts of it to us?

Looking forward to more of your posts!

Regards,

By the way, just what does "medenaywe", mean? If anything?
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2011 at 15:04
Were used grammatical cases by ancient pharaons?I am inside of this.Everything started like joke and became very obvious and astonishing!After lot of footing have to make signs from stone alive.If there are cases,Romans have made just copy/paste!If not,still have English to say nobody is perfect.Rest you will connect from my posts before.De Mo Ti Ko will speak again,even if it never stops cause  syllables are still alive!This Monday will finally find better photo of stone.
    Regards
 


Edited by medenaywe - 23-Jan-2011 at 03:33
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2011 at 15:24
I believe i missed intentionally  "to".This is more American..hehe...To Denaywe...Is ideal of those people.Gods are adored by them.They are their ideal.But...Not all of God's nature...Gods are also bad.Like humans.Their animal part.They created ideal behavior  that will obey during their live:They will accept only To Deity Perfect/Nearest/Devoted/First/Faithful part of behavior. And  this is  mine,To  Denaywe.


Edited by medenaywe - 23-Jan-2011 at 03:44
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.