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Standard of Living, Minoans vs........

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Standard of Living, Minoans vs........
    Posted: 10-Apr-2005 at 12:17
   From what I've been able to gather, the Minoan civilization of Crete were pretty much the high Living condition bar from the bottom up for 2000ish years till the ? came along. This is {I belive} because they were the first true service based country. AKA they didnt have a large working/slave class like other trader cultures of the time. I dont belive its just because their housing tend to have a long innovation list attached.


   I would like to know if their are any other small cultures that rivaled them in the overall sense.

Please dont say Roman/Han or the like because while the rich lived..richly, the poor lived...quite poorly, and they were the average. Also the Myceneans while similar really had a rough life due to cronic warfare. Thanks, been stalking around this forum for quite awhile, but the threds all answered my previous questions.


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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2005 at 23:11

"Please dont say Roman/Han or the like because while the rich lived..richly, the poor lived...quite poorly, and they were the average. "

 

They don't even exist at the same time. And no, slave economy only holds true for Rome, but Qin's economy is free peasant based, and there were extremely prosperous times during the Han. During the time of Jin Di, the commoners could all affort meat, the strings of cash are said to be stacked like mountains in every household(not just the rich). All these was gone thanks to Han Wudi's wonton wars.

 

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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2005 at 23:13
more things to consider is that by "small states" we could include some puny city state in the middle of a prosperous trade route and ripe from the trade. These small states can be extremely wealthy and become trade based economy. But they are too small to feed any large quantity of population.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 10:31
Well naturaly I knew that the larger empires I mentioned didnt even exist in the same millennium of the small minoan society. Also I didnt mean Slaves so much as societies dominated by a large workforce. Question simply was; out of all the ancient societies, which do you belive had the easiest lives on average?



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  Quote RED GUARD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 20:55
      How about those Ecrustrians? They were probably rival to the Minoians.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2005 at 00:53
Well as far as relationships go, the Minoans during their earliest years 3200-2500bce were pretty isolated and that allowed them to develope from neolithic to perhaps the most advanced non-river culture at the time. All disputes were most likely internal and very small scale at most. Trading {limited to Egypt and perhaps whatever culture was inhabiting Anatolia at the time}was also probably pretty undecicive so they were likely vunerable to local famine and crop/fishing falures.

In their later years they truly florished {2400-1700bce}dispite a strong rivalry to the Myceneans who lived mostly in the various Ageans Islands bordering the Med and fringes of greek and turkish mainlands.

The Myceneans copied alot of Minoan Art but developed a culture in almost compleat polarity to the inhabitants of Crete. They were extreamly warlike, were not very successful as traders. They seemed to envy the Minoans and tryed to compeat with Crete in overseas trade. When that didnt work they decided to simply confiscate trading vessles, why trade when you can simply take I suppose.

This didnt stop the Minoans from living very well. What did stop it was the eruption of Thera, this island had a healthy Minoan colony and layed just off the North coast of Crete, almost all ports and towns was whiped out. The Minoans held on for another 400 years before the last of them were assimilated into the Mycenean culture, this Culture was Greece till around 700bce.

Minoan interaction were compleatly trade based with other cultures such as Hittites, Egyptians, Philistine, Canaan and the those preceading the Etruscans and Samnites on the Latin penninsula.


all of this is just off the top of my head, and I'm very tired so forgive my mistakes/misspellings if there are any/many.
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  Quote Berosus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2005 at 05:51
I don't think the Minoans really had any rivals in their heyday.  At times I have said that if we can believe the pictures they painted on their walls, they were the happiest people of the Bronze Age.  After the Thera eruption, I'd guess that the people who lived the most like them were the Phoenicians.
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2005 at 20:13
Originally posted by Sinshara

Well as far as relationships go, the Minoans during their earliest years 3200-2500bce were pretty isolated and that allowed them to develope from neolithic to perhaps the most advanced non-river culture at the time. All disputes were most likely internal and very small scale at most. Trading {limited to Egypt and perhaps whatever culture was inhabiting Anatolia at the time}was also probably pretty undecicive so they were likely vunerable to local famine and crop/fishing falures.

In their later years they truly flourished {2400-1700bce}despite a strong rivalry to the Mycenaens who lived mostly in the various Arenas Islands bordering the Med and fringes of Greek and Turkish mainlands.

The Mycenaens copied alot of Minoan Art but developed a culture in almost compleat polarity to the inhabitants of Crete. They were extreamly warlike, were not very successful as traders. They seemed to envy the Minoans and tryed to compeat with Crete in overseas trade. When that didnt work they decided to simply confiscate trading vessles, why trade when you can simply take I suppose.

This didnt stop the Minoans from living very well. What did stop it was the eruption of Thera, this island had a healthy Minoan colony and layed just off the North coast of Crete, almost all ports and towns was whiped out. The Minoans held on for another 400 years before the last of them were assimilated into the Mycenaean culture, this Culture was Greece till around 700bce.

Minoan interaction were completely trade based with other cultures such as Hittites, Egyptians, Philistine, Canaan and the those preceading the Etruscans and Samnites on the Latin penninsula.


all of this is just off the top of my head, and I'm very tired so forgive my mistakes/misspellings if there are any/many.


Interesting! I spent one month at the museum of Cycladic Art to study; Greek and pre Greek art and culture. The Minoans are one of my favorite societies in history. This culture was amazingly equal in their relations with the opposite sex. They had a crude form of flushing toilets, a great sewage system and bath tubs, the average person had a flushing toilet and bath tub. This is unheard of till modern times. Their cities were totally unwalled, with a few exceptions but their navy was so powerful it acted as a wall in time of defense. I have heard various theories but nobody is for sure whether the Mycenaean Greeks took over by force or slowly took over politically, after Thera erupted. If I could go back in time and pick a culture to live in, I would pick the Minoans.
But, on a negative note they did find evidence of human sacrifice. Nobody knows if this was the normal practice or a reaction to Thera. I have been to Santorini (Thera) and it is awesome. It is still an active volcano but the chance of it erupting soon is slim.


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2005 at 00:20
Originally posted by eaglecap



Interesting! I spent one month at the museum of Cycladic Art to study; Greek and pre Greek art and culture. The Minoans are one of my favorite societies in history. This culture was amazingly equal in their relations with the opposite sex. They had a crude form of flushing toilets, a great sewage system and bath tubs, the average person had a flushing toilet and bath tub. This is unheard of till modern times. Their cities were totally unwalled, with a few exceptions but their navy was so powerful it acted as a wall in time of defense. I have heard various theories but nobody is for sure whether the Mycenaean Greeks took over by force or slowly took over politically, after Thera erupted. If I could go back in time and pick a culture to live in, I would pick the Minoans.
But, on a negative note they did find evidence of human sacrifice. Nobody knows if this was the normal practice or a reaction to Thera. I have been to Santorini (Thera) and it is awesome. It is still an active volcano but the chance of it erupting soon is slim.


I wish someday that i might be able to have an education and traveling experiance such as that, sounds awsome. Unfortunetly I'm in the early gen ed grind and history is one of my many interest.

Well anyhoo its great to see others agree with me as what made the Minoans so special as a civilization is how the common people lived. Want to see what else i can find out about their latter years, Thanks for the additional Info
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2005 at 20:14

Religion played an important role in Minoan society and women had a significant religious position. Minoan art, archaeological evidence, the power of priestesses compared to the power of priests and evidence from tablets supports this. It is difficult to assert the precise amount of power women held in Minoan society as many sources are contradictory and evidence comes almost entirely from material remains.

 

Despite that the palace kings were male; the society itself does not seem to have been patriarchal. While it cannot be confirmed that Minoan society was matrilineal, it is a compelling conclusion since the religion was goddess-based. Many writers suggest that the power of women in Minoan society reached outside the religious sphere, the participation of women in the practice of bull-leaping seen in frescoes might indicate this and confirm that there was gender equality in Minoan society however it is uncertain whether women played an equally important role outside the religious sphere.

 

In addition to animal sacrifices there is also evidence of child sacrifices at Knossos.



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