A question on Greeks

Calm down man.   Where have I said the IE's were superior in anything? I'd think them as violent barbarians more like. I am just trying to prove, that linguistics and genetics aren't the same, with the fact that IE's didn't bring anything new to Europe, not even genes, so IE's can't have had blonde hair or blue eyes as their genetic features, since they aren't dominant features even today.

I think this also proves, that language can change whether there is a continuity in civilisation or not. So yes, Greece DID have technological civilisations even before the nomadic barbarians came (IE's). (I recall that the coming of the IE's was even remembered in Hellenic Greece, by a philosofer or something.)

Besides, I don't know any professors have denied the existence of the IE language family. The IE-theory has been proven correct separately be linguistics and archaelogy, first by Maria Gimbutas in archaeology (the Kurgan culture), and later by professors on IE-languages.

Thank you and goodbye.

Greek mtDNA


In numerous recent studies, the mitochondrial DNA of Greeks was examined and was found to be predominantly Caucasoid with only infrequent presence of "erratic" sequences from non-Caucasoid sources. Mitochondrial DNA ("mtDNA" is inherited from one's mother and is thus a good way to establish the maternal ancestry of a population.

The most comprehensive European-wide study of mtDNA is [1] in which 125 Greeks were sampled among thousands of Europeans. The Greeks and the Albanians appear in the "Mediterranean-East" category of the study. Greeks tested belonged overwhelmingly to the Caucasoid-specific haplogroups ("Seven Daughters of Eve" popularized by Bryan Sykes' book).

The "erratic" sequences include a Sub-Saharan African (L1a) sequence, which was derived from the Albanian part of the sample [2]. The other two sequences non-attributed to a European founder are members of haplogroups prevalent in Asia, M and D. Thus, the total percentage of erratics in the Greek sample was 1.6%. The Greeks, like most Europeans are fairly pure in terms of their maternal ancestry.

It is sometimes argued that the Greeks absorbed large numbers of Negro slaves or immigrants. There is no evidence of such an event in Greek mtDNA. If it ever took place, it was so limited in scope that not a single sequence in a total of 125 could be found.

The number of non-European sequences in the rest of Europe is also small, while in the Near East it is about 5%, only slightly larger. One can easily verify that Sub-Saharan African admixture (L sequences) has been detected in Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway and Iceland - 0.6%), Southeastern Europe (Bulgaria/Romania - 0.5%), Central Mediterranean (Italy and Sardinia - 1.7%; mostly in Sardinia), the Mediterranean West (Spain and Portugal - 3.7%), North Central Europe (Poles, Czechs, Germans, Danes - 0.9%), North Western Europe (Britain, Ireland and France - 0.4%). In another recent study [3] on Norwegians, an L2 Sub-Saharan African sequence was found in the sample of 74 Norwegians (1.4% Sub-Saharan admixture). Finally [4] showed 0.5% to 1.2% introgression of Sub-Saharan African genes into the European American gene pool.

The main conclusion to be drawn from these studies, is that Caucasoids of European descent have negligible traces of non-Caucasoid maternal admixture. Sub-Saharan African traces of such ancestry are found at levels of about 1% in many populations. But not in Greeks(a).


References
Richards et al., Tracing European founder lineages in the Near Eastern mtDNA pool. American Journal of Human Genetics, 67, 1251-1276. Online paper and supplementary data in Vincent Macaulay's home page.
Michele Belledi et al., Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations, European Journal of Human Genetics, 8, 480 - 486 (01 Jul 2000)

Giuseppe Passarino et al., Different genetic components in the Norwegian population revealed by the analysis of mtDNA and Y chromosome polymorphisms, European Journal of Human Genetics10, 521 - 529 (23 Aug 2002)

Esteban J. Parra et al., Estimating African American Admixture Proportions by Use of Population-Specific Alleles, Am. J. Hum. Genet., 63:1839-1851, 1998
(a) This author does not believe that there is anything wrong in principio with either African or other non-Caucasoid influences in any European population, including the Greeks.

Some UNDENIABLES scientific facts , about Greeks and their origin , for those who r curious....

My best regards..

Isk.

Well what do you think is the origin of the language (we are talking proto-IE, if I'm not completely mistaken?)? What do you think on the "refugium-theory", which Pavel Dolukhanov supports?

Well, I might have misunderstood the text. It was a very old book from the 30's. I just got the impression.

A very nice article about this question:


http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/articles/hellenes/

I think that blonde greeks were not impossible.

My father/grandfather are "kipchak Turks" who are green eyed Turks living in mountans in Kazachstan, but know were living in Afyon/Bolvadin/�zburun. There's lots of Kipchak Turks living in Turkey for example Tarkan...