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Where is God?

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  Quote dattaswami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Where is God?
    Posted: 22-Nov-2010 at 09:48

                        Where is God?

God: reachable or unreachable?

O Learned And Devoted Servants of God,

The Bhagavad Gita says that nobody knows God (Maamtu Veda Na kaschana). The Veda says that words, mind, intelligence, logic and even imagination cannot touch God (Yato Vachah…Manasa saha; Na Medhaya; Naisha Tarkena). The Veda also says that if one knows that God is unknown, he knows atleast something about God (Yasyaa matam Tasya Matam). These three statements declare that God is unknowable and unreachable. Yet the same Veda says that God is present on this earth itself (Yat Saakshat Aparokshat). Similarly the Gita also says that God reveals Himself on the earth in every human generation as per the necessity (Tadaatmaanam Srijaamyaham). These two statements say that God can be seen by humans. How can one correlate these two contradicting sets of statements?

 The first set of statements implies that you cannot catch God by your effort. The second statement indicates that whenever the kindest God wants to reveal Himself, He comes to the earth. You can see God on earth but He cannot be understood. Therefore the first statement is not contradicted. Fine, you have seen Lord Krishna. However as a boy He lifted a mountain on His little finger. Did you understand this? Definitely not! The Gita says that God comes down in a human body to preach to human beings (Manusheem Tanum Ashritam). Then you can see and touch Him. You can talk and live with Him. But He is not understood. He is seen only to prove that He cannot be understood.

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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2010 at 12:35
dont hindus beleive in like 300 gods?? instead of one?
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  Quote dattaswami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2010 at 23:16
Originally posted by balochii

ont hindus beleive in like 300 gods?? instead of one?
 

Why did God express Himself in different forms in a single Hindu religion in India? In the universe, God expressed Himself in a single form in every religion. In Christianity, there is only one expressed form i.e. Jesus. In Islam, there is only one expressed form i.e. Allah or Mohammad. But in Hindu religion, there are different expressed forms of God like Vishnu, Shiva etc.

 
Diversity in the forms of God is only the first point in Hindu religion. The next point is the unity in all these forms that also exists in Hindu religion. People are criticizing the Hindu religion showing only the first point. Why don’t they see the second point? The concept is not complete by the first point. Now, the question comes, “Why should there be diversity at all and make the unnecessary effort to bring the unity? Why Hinduism is not having a single form of God as in Christianity or Islam?” All right [Agreed].

 

Let us assume that there is a single form in Hindu religion and let us assume that Vishnu is that single form. Then, does this solve the problem when you take the entire world? Now, there are three forms of God i.e. Jesus, Allah or Mohammad and Vishnu. Now, if you take the world as your system for studying, is there a single form of God for the entire world?

 
Even if we solve the problem at micro level i.e. Hinduism, but the same problem is appearing at the macro level i.e. the world. The solution at macro level is very important than at the micro level because in India, wars never took place between the followers of Vishnu and the followers of Shiva. But in the world, wars have taken place and are still taking place between the followers of Islam, Christianity, Hinduism etc. The problem at the micro level never disturbed the peace. But, the problem at macro level always disturbed the peace of the world.

 

To use a medicine on human beings at macro level, it is first tested in the laboratory on a micro system like a rabbit. When the medicine is proved in the case of the rabbit, it is administered to all the human beings. Similarly, the concept developed in the unity of various forms of God in Hinduism should be taken totally by all religions in the world. As the medicine cured the disease of the rabbit, it cures the same disease in all the human beings. Similarly, the knowledge of unity of various sub-religions in the Hindu religion should be applied as it is to the case of all the universal religions. This knowledge is the medicine. The fanatic is the disease.

 
This knowledge not only cures various fanatics in the Hindu religion, but also cures the various fanatics of religions in the world. Infact, there is only one God in Hinduism i.e. Lord Datta who appears in various forms like Vishnu, Shiva etc. Actually, God Datta purposely created the diversity in the forms of God in Hinduism to teach the unity in diversity in all the religions in the world. This is just like a mini model prepared to represent the entire world.
 

The same design in the mini model appears as a huge building when constructed. Similarly, the concept in Hinduism is the message for the entire universe. Lord Datta is the teacher for the world. A teacher praises his student in one subject and praises another student in another subject. He will ask them to help each other. Similarly, India should learn the sacrifice from abroad and the rest of the world should learn about unity in diversity from India.

 

One has to take the good aspect from every religion. I do not belong to any religion but belong equally to all the religions. I do not support or condemn any religion blindly. I pick up the pearls from all the oceans. I criticize Hinduism for several points like not doing the sacrifice of money or work for God, caste system etc. As per the point of unity in diversity is concerned, I praise Indians.

 
I criticize the rest of the world. So, irrespective of the name of the religion, one has to pick up the good points from every religion. Are you rejecting the diamond from a foreign country? Diamond is a diamond anywhere in the world. You cannot differentiate an Indian diamond and a foreign diamond. The logic in the unity of Hinduism is based on the same God appearing in various forms and qualities to satisfy the tastes of different people when He comes in human form.

 

 The nature of Vishnu is ‘Sattvam’ i.e. soft nature. So, soft people are attracted to Vishnu. The nature of Shiva is ‘Tamas’ i.e. emotional nature. People of such nature like Shiva. When there is synchrony in nature of the devotee and the human form of God, the attraction and adaptability is more. Then the message of God to that human form reaches the devotee easily. The message is same but the forms of God are different. The same milk is given in different types of cups. Somebody likes a ceramic cup and somebody likes a glass cup.

 
The form of God is as per your liking, but the divine message preached by all forms of God is the same. It is just like the same syllabus present in different language mediums. The unity in diversity in Hinduism is actually practiced by almost all the people. In every house, people celebrate the festival of Vishnu and the festival of Shiva. In every house, the photos of almost all the forms of Hindu God are worshipped in India.
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  Quote Pytheus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2010 at 05:00
Originally posted by dattaswami

                        Where is God?

He's hiding under my bed.
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  Quote BIG D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2010 at 14:22
there has been really no change in humans[[there is still murder/rape/war/robbery/etc,]] since the beginning...so I don't see what jesus came for, or any of god's/allah's MESSENGERS' PURPOSE...in fact, you had the greatest murder/etc[[per technology] 2000 years after 'jesus came'....
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  Quote dattaswami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2010 at 21:47
Originally posted by BIG D

there has been really no change in humans[[there is still murder/rape/war/robbery/etc,]] since the beginning...so I don't see what jesus came for, or any of god's/allah's MESSENGERS' PURPOSE...in fact, you had the greatest murder/etc[[per technology] 2000 years after 'jesus came'....


Justice is the divine system created by God, to maintain the balance of the society so that the spiritual aspirants can do their efforts with peace. The justice is related to your colleague soul. The essence of Dharma is not to hurt anyone in anyway because the law and order is in the hands of God. Atleast you should not harm any devotee. But punishing the students for their welfare is exempted because the welfare of the student is the main aim.

You must get the correct information to reach Delhi. The correct information will show you the right path to reach the goal. Here, the purpose of knowledge is over. From this point onwards, your effort is required. You may have the correct knowledge of the path, but unless you put the effort to walk, the goal is not reached. The true knowledge is given by the scripture. But, unfortunately wrong interpretations of the scripture exist in this world. Therefore, the correct interpretation with powerful explanation of the scripture is required. The correct interpretation is only known to the Author of the Scripture. Therefore, God, the Author of the Scripture, should come down in the human form as Preacher to give the original interpretation and clarify all your doubts to convince you with powerful and correct logic.

 

 If God comes in any form other than human form, the preaching is not possible. Of course, God can preach you even in the form of a statue through His omnipotence. But, if that is done, you will be excited with tension and will not be able to receive the interpretation and will not be able to express your doubts in cool atmosphere. For this purpose only, God comes down in the human form as a Preacher so that you will treat Him as your co-human being and express your doubts freely to get correct clarification. Hence, [there is] the importance of contemporary human incarnation.

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2010 at 22:30
Originally posted by Pytheus

Originally posted by dattaswami

                        Where is God?

He's hiding under my bed.
 
 
Not true, I saw him pumping gas in Union City just last week.  I think Bin laden has the 2nd shift.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2010 at 22:37
Datta- It's getting a little "preachy".  Intellctual discourse is fine.  Preaching is not.
 
Please see the Code, or CoC.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote ancalimon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2010 at 14:04
God is God's creation plus the rest. God is everywhere even those places which human mind can not comprehend.


Edited by ancalimon - 27-Nov-2010 at 14:06
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2010 at 03:46
Originally posted by dattaswami

                        Where is God?

God: reachable or unreachable?

O Learned And Devoted Servants of God,

The Bhagavad Gita says that nobody knows God (Maamtu Veda Na kaschana). The Veda says that words, mind, intelligence, logic and even imagination cannot touch God (Yato Vachah…Manasa saha; Na Medhaya; Naisha Tarkena). The Veda also says that if one knows that God is unknown, he knows atleast something about God (Yasyaa matam Tasya Matam). These three statements declare that God is unknowable and unreachable. Yet the same Veda says that God is present on this earth itself (Yat Saakshat Aparokshat). Similarly the Gita also says that God reveals Himself on the earth in every human generation as per the necessity (Tadaatmaanam Srijaamyaham). These two statements say that God can be seen by humans. How can one correlate these two contradicting sets of statements?

 The first set of statements implies that you cannot catch God by your effort. The second statement indicates that whenever the kindest God wants to reveal Himself, He comes to the earth. You can see God on earth but He cannot be understood. Therefore the first statement is not contradicted. Fine, you have seen Lord Krishna. However as a boy He lifted a mountain on His little finger. Did you understand this? Definitely not! The Gita says that God comes down in a human body to preach to human beings (Manusheem Tanum Ashritam). Then you can see and touch Him. You can talk and live with Him. But He is not understood. He is seen only to prove that He cannot be understood.

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

 
I do not see a counterdiction in the statements. 
 
"One principle must make the universe a single complex living creature, one form all".  Plotimus
 
"All are but parts of one stupendous whole"  Alexander Pope
 
"Whence shall he have grief, how shall he be deluded who sees everywhere the Oneness?"  Isha Upanishad
 
God is beyond our comprehension.  Although all is God, our consciousness is limited by our 5 senses and our limited brains, and limited knowledge.  However, through our senses we can precieve the pieces.  We can study nature and then infer something about God.  We can accumulate knowledge for many generations and greatly expand our shared consciousness and pool of knowledge. Even than our knowledge is limited.  With computers and instanteous International communication, something is happening to that pool of knowledge, that  never happened before in the history of humanity.   Be prepared for a new consciousness. 
 
If Einstein were to appear to us in a dream and reveal all his knowledge of quantum physics, we would only understand that which we were prepared to understand.  As much as humans enjoy believing they have holy books that are God's truth, the person who experienced the revelation could only understand what s/he was ready to understand.  This makes it quite likely many have experienced spiritual, philosophical, scientific and artistic revelations, but each will know only what s/he was prepared to know.  None should hold too firmly to a single explanation of God's truth, to the exclusion of all others, for each can only be a part of the whole. 
 
I was taught to look for God in everyone.  Our consciousness does make us uniquic.  God is asleep in rock and animals, waking in plants and animals, to know self in man.   We are God's consciousness, but none of us is the whole.   In my right upper thigh there is a nerve cell.  This nerve is part of me, however, it does not know me.  It only knows itself within me.   And so it for us.
We are part of the whole, but can not know the whole.  However, as we gain knowledge our knowledge grows by quantum leaps.  This makes clinging to outdated holy books a sad thing.  Those who do, are even less apt to know God's truth. 
 
I believe right now we are in the Resurrection.  Anthropologist, archeologist and related sciences are resurrecting our planet's history and human history.  It is possible we are here for the Resurrection  through the process called reincarnation.   It is possible our experience of reality is only a small fraction of the greater reality of many dimensions.   The sun may be worthy of our woship as some ancients believed, but we have not fully understood.   The only thing I know for sure, is we do not know very much, and should not get overly hung up on what we believe we know. 
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2010 at 04:12
Originally posted by BIG D

there has been really no change in humans[[there is still murder/rape/war/robbery/etc,]] since the beginning...so I don't see what jesus came for, or any of god's/allah's MESSENGERS' PURPOSE...in fact, you had the greatest murder/etc[[per technology] 2000 years after 'jesus came'....
 
How long have been on earth?  Our consciousness has changed a lot!  right now the thing is to talk about those awful Muslims, but not that long ago, Christians were not that evolved either.  Please, man, we are no longer hunting witches and burning them the stake, but now use science to and the study of medicine to explore things like someone's cow die or why people are falling ill.  We are not killing or persecuting someone for understanding God's word differently, although some moderators do tend to have a low tolerance for discussions like this.   
 
The origninal Tarzan movies are shocking, because of their acceptance of killing of animals, and wearing furs is no longer as popular as it once was.  We are much more enviormental aware and going green is a good thing.  The racism of the past is no longer tolerable.  The racist terrorism of the  KKK is not acceptable today.  Nor is persecuting Jews.  Some ignorant people may behave badly, but that is ignorance.   We may always have mentally and emotionally disturb people among us, doing things that are not socially approved of, and I hope we become more rational and humane in managing this reality.   Religion has been a serious draw back in our progress, exspecially regarding our reaction of mentally and emotionally disturbed people, and I hope science will change this. 
 
With computers and the Internet, I expect amazing consciousness tranformation to come.   Anyway to say really there has been is no change, just isn't right. 
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2010 at 04:28
Originally posted by red clay

Datta- It's getting a little "preachy".  Intellctual discourse is fine.  Preaching is not.
 
Please see the Code, or CoC.
 
Red Clay,  What is not intellectual about what Datta is saying?  This matter of God and justice begs our attention, considering the tension between Muslims and Christians.  It also has everything to do with democracy and a higher morality.  Seriously, this is not a disucssion to step on. 
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2010 at 09:22
i will post deepak chopra discussion on this topic later, its interesting
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  Quote BIG D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2010 at 13:12
Originally posted by Athena

Originally posted by BIG D

there has been really no change in humans[[there is still murder/rape/war/robbery/etc,]] since the beginning...so I don't see what jesus came for, or any of god's/allah's MESSENGERS' PURPOSE...in fact, you had the greatest murder/etc[[per technology] 2000 years after 'jesus came'....
 
How long have been on earth?  Our consciousness has changed a lot!  right now the thing is to talk about those awful Muslims, but not that long ago, Christians were not that evolved either.  Please, man, we are no longer hunting witches and burning them the stake, but now use science to and the study of medicine to explore things like someone's cow die or why people are falling ill.  We are not killing or persecuting someone for understanding God's word differently, although some moderators do tend to have a low tolerance for discussions like this.   
 
The origninal Tarzan movies are shocking, because of their acceptance of killing of animals, and wearing furs is no longer as popular as it once was.  We are much more enviormental aware and going green is a good thing.  The racism of the past is no longer tolerable.  The racist terrorism of the  KKK is not acceptable today.  Nor is persecuting Jews.  Some ignorant people may behave badly, but that is ignorance.   We may always have mentally and emotionally disturb people among us, doing things that are not socially approved of, and I hope we become more rational and humane in managing this reality.   Religion has been a serious draw back in our progress, exspecially regarding our reaction of mentally and emotionally disturbed people, and I hope science will change this. 
 
With computers and the Internet, I expect amazing consciousness tranformation to come.   Anyway to say really there has been is no change, just isn't right. 
ok, in the years 1939-1945, you had the greatest killing/murder/rape/etc of all time...we had genocide pre-WWII and STILL have it....we STILL have wars with murder and rape.....so, burning witches is worse than destroying WHOLE cities while burning and killing the people in them???......fathers and mothers murdering their OWN children???...kids murdering other kids???..and you say the world is BETTER???
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  Quote BIG D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2010 at 13:19

and ATHENA, how do you know I'm a man???and, racism??the Hutus murdered thousands of Tutsies[?] because of ethnicity....what about the Serbs murdering thousands???...we STILL have racism/genocide/..or the Khmer Rouge murdering thousands??..racism/etc. is acceptable to those who think they are 'right'....and it still exist....

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2010 at 15:44
Why even look for some being or God, who choses to remain hidden from us? If such a thing exists, and he/she/them choses to reveal themselves/it, to us, then it is their/its choice and not our right to persue them/she/he/it!

If it is destined to be revealed to us, then it shall be revealed! But, perhaps we are just not ready to see "IT!"

As someone may have once said "IT shall be revealed!"

Moses, after all, was never the same!

Edited by opuslola - 30-Nov-2010 at 15:46
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2010 at 17:40
Originally posted by opuslola

Why even look for some being or God, who choses to remain hidden from us? If such a thing exists, and he/she/them choses to reveal themselves/it, to us, then it is their/its choice and not our right to persue them/she/he/it!

If it is destined to be revealed to us, then it shall be revealed! But, perhaps we are just not ready to see "IT!"

As someone may have once said "IT shall be revealed!"

Moses, after all, was never the same!
 
well said, words worth of truth agnostic :)
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2010 at 10:44
Originally posted by BIG D

Originally posted by Athena

Originally posted by BIG D

there has been really no change in humans[[there is still murder/rape/war/robbery/etc,]] since the beginning...so I don't see what jesus came for, or any of god's/allah's MESSENGERS' PURPOSE...in fact, you had the greatest murder/etc[[per technology] 2000 years after 'jesus came'....
 
How long have been on earth?  Our consciousness has changed a lot!  right now the thing is to talk about those awful Muslims, but not that long ago, Christians were not that evolved either.  Please, man, we are no longer hunting witches and burning them the stake, but now use science to and the study of medicine to explore things like someone's cow die or why people are falling ill.  We are not killing or persecuting someone for understanding God's word differently, although some moderators do tend to have a low tolerance for discussions like this.   
 
The origninal Tarzan movies are shocking, because of their acceptance of killing of animals, and wearing furs is no longer as popular as it once was.  We are much more enviormental aware and going green is a good thing.  The racism of the past is no longer tolerable.  The racist terrorism of the  KKK is not acceptable today.  Nor is persecuting Jews.  Some ignorant people may behave badly, but that is ignorance.   We may always have mentally and emotionally disturb people among us, doing things that are not socially approved of, and I hope we become more rational and humane in managing this reality.   Religion has been a serious draw back in our progress, exspecially regarding our reaction of mentally and emotionally disturbed people, and I hope science will change this. 
 
With computers and the Internet, I expect amazing consciousness tranformation to come.   Anyway to say really there has been is no change, just isn't right. 
ok, in the years 1939-1945, you had the greatest killing/murder/rape/etc of all time...we had genocide pre-WWII and STILL have it....we STILL have wars with murder and rape.....so, burning witches is worse than destroying WHOLE cities while burning and killing the people in them???......fathers and mothers murdering their OWN children???...kids murdering other kids???..and you say the world is BETTER???
 
I did not say better.  I said our conscousness has changed. 


Edited by Athena - 01-Dec-2010 at 10:47
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2010 at 10:49
Originally posted by BIG D

and ATHENA, how do you know I'm a man???and, racism??the Hutus murdered thousands of Tutsies[?] because of ethnicity....what about the Serbs murdering thousands???...we STILL have racism/genocide/..or the Khmer Rouge murdering thousands??..racism/etc. is acceptable to those who think they are 'right'....and it still exist....

 
You have a big chip on your shoulder, and I hope self awareness makes a difference.
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2010 at 11:24
Originally posted by opuslola

Why even look for some being or God, who choses to remain hidden from us? If such a thing exists, and he/she/them choses to reveal themselves/it, to us, then it is their/its choice and not our right to persue them/she/he/it!

If it is destined to be revealed to us, then it shall be revealed! But, perhaps we are just not ready to see "IT!"

As someone may have once said "IT shall be revealed!"

Moses, after all, was never the same!
 
Hold on.  It appears you are working with the Christian definition of God, and this is not the only definition of God.  Actually I believe the major religions agree that we can not know God.  Then they proceed to preach a God that we can imagine.  However, this is not the only way to think of  God. 
 
Aristotle and his peers were not so sure about God.  The Roman stateman Cicero studied in Athens and carried this question of God forward.  This train of thought is clear about our inability to know God.  However, we can study nature and then infer something about God.  I stress this because it is directly tied to moral thinking.   Moral means to know the law and good manners.  To know the law is to know universal laws, the laws of nature.  The law of graviety is the is same everywhere in the universe.  Human beings are the same all over the earth, however, circumstances and cultures or mental disorders and the individuality of our personalities make unique, like a snow flake is snow flake and each one is different.  So with knowledge of humans, we can have moral laws and make moral decisions.  Then we can use want we know about humans in interactions with humans around the world.   All of this is the philosophical way of knowing something about God.  That is, to know what we can know through experience, and implying something about God.  Some have said this understanding of God is the X factor.   It is far, far from believing a set of stories that are part myth and part history, define God and His chosen people and His will. 
 
To know God is to know why you should do this and not that.  It is understanding cause and effect.  As Cicero makes clear, your intentions do not matter.  You might have good intentions, but if you do the wrong thing, things will go badly.  It can be argued, Bush's reaction to 9/11 has made the world a much more dangerous place, and therefore he took the wrong action.  I think the world would be a much saver place if Kincinch had been our President at the time, and the US had taken the path of peace.  It would be marvelous if we could replay these moments in history like the early Nentindo games could be replayed.  I don't want to derail this thread with a political debate, but mean to make a point about what a difference it makes to seek to know God through philsophical considerations rather then studying holy books about a war God.  If we attempt to understand the bigger picture, our thinking is so different from the decisions we make from our personal points of view.  Like a child wanting to avoid trouble by telling a lie, is this lie going to make things better or worse?  How do we feel when we lie?  What does lying do to our relationships, on a personal level and a social level?   Praying will not change the out come of the action.  Buring candles will not change the out come of the action.  Bush acted like this boy who thought he could get away with anything, and the world is not a better place because of it.  Generations will pay for the war (wars?) he started.   


Edited by Athena - 01-Dec-2010 at 11:46
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