the right and duty to kill

 

To whom does God give the right or even the duty to kill another? 

 

Good move Big D, yes, we should kill those who do wrong.  Jesus who spoke of a forgiving God and loving the enemy, was a weak kneed liberal. 

 

 

To restate the beginning quote and the disagreement about Shia law that Cyrus brought up:

As God alone was deemed to be the only arbiter in the use of capital punishment, not fallible people, the Sanhedrin made stoning a hypothetical upper limit on the severity of punishment.

 

 

Shia law is about enforcing a moral code.  It is particular harsh on women who can be stoned to death if are just suspected of being a lone with a man.  I am quite sure this Shia law, begins with the Hebrews who created this control over women, to assure the father a child was the woman's husband and no one else.  By their law, if there is a question of who the father is, the child does not inherit the father's land.  Judaism survived because of these laws controling reproduction and property rights.  Compared to Zoroastrianism that was so mixed with other beliefs it died out.   Unfortunately, the Hebrew tribe ideas were picked up by Islam as God's word.  I think we can assume Mohammed was working with the written word, that may not have included the spoken word that prevented the Jews from practicing executions.  For sure Persians were patriachical and patriachical societies are repressive of women, like a buck controlling of his females.  It is our nature, not divine revelation that makes us this way. 

 

Pytheus, your stimulating thought leads  me to marvel about the Jewish decisions that did lead to Jesus's execution.  Jesus was opposed to such punishment.  He said only the person with no sin should throw the first stone.  He told people not to turn to Rome with their difference, but to turn to each other.  I vaguely recall him saying something about allowing the offender to leave and go live in another place?  For sure he said God is a forgiving God. 

 

Pytheus, because of your statement I having a new insight into Jesus and the political divide among Jews.  The people had the written and oral law.  This is the same divide as the Muslims are dealing with, and Christianity had to deal with.  Some do not accept the addtions to the word of Mohammed, Protestants didn't accept the additions of Catholics.  Jesus said, to the Pharisee, those are man's laws, not God's laws.    At the same time Rome has to be appeased or it can destroy the temple and the people, and you know the Jews in power had to have been trying to protect their positions of power, and the people, by appeasing Rome.  Then here is Jesus causing trouble, not on just any day, but he turned the money changers tables over during a special day when Rome would be most apt to notice, putting Israel is danger.  Spock of Star Trek might argue, it is better the one die than everyone die.   That is, the Jews who had an oral tradition that opposed the death penalty, sacrificed the trouble maker to appease Rome and prevent Rome from crushing the people, at a time when tensions among disagreeing Jews was high, and the tension with Rome was high.   Jesus was no innocent victim, but as many 30 year old men, was out to make a point in a way that could not ignored. 

 

Try this link  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_War

 

Part of the tension was between the Greeks and Jews.  I am not sure, but believe what set Jesus off was Greeks sacrificing birds in front of the Synagogue.  The link only mentions a little bit of this.  In another book I read the Jews were very distressed about thier sons joining the Greek games, which were played in the nude.  This resulting in the Jews becoming more concerned about their sons' education at an earlier age, to prevent them from being corrupt by Greek customs.

 

Added to the tension was Rome's economic troubles and increasing taxes, kind like the tensions many countries are facing today, with failed banks and a recssion, cutting back on government paid pay increases and hours or work, at the same raising taxes and cutting benefits to everyone.  Add a little religious conflict to this, and the result could be like using a match to see there is any gas in the tank.   Sometimes it doesn't take much to get a dramatic reaction. 

 

 

We dont know it because we dont have the case files. All we know comes from bible, from the 2 of apostols (that not so sure) and thats all is a christian propaganda.

 

People should be good because they want to be, not because they think they will burn in hell (this is merely my opinion though).

 

How much thought have you given to why people are not good all the time, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day? 

 

I think your next post is a good demonstration why it is essential to have training for good moral judgement.  But I would never, ever say training for good moral judgment should be done by religion.  Your reasoning is in question.  Reasoning moral judgment is a religious thing is bad reasoning.  Reasoning war is good is bad reasoning. 

 

Bush is one of histories worst presidents because he put much of the world on the path of war.  If Kicinch had won the election, the world could have been on the path of peace.   He would not have taken us to war, but would have left the world to come down Ben Ladin and those who would following him, and Korean and Iran would not be building nuclear bombs, because nuclear bombs are not a good defense against suicide bombers.  I am sickened by the US Christian right that gave Bush permission to lead us in war.   The only difference between them and the Muslims causing so much trouble, is the weapons.  

 

We are born with blank brians, and anything can be written on them.  How "good" we are, depends on two things, our emotions and our reasoning.  When we feel bad, we are more prone to doing bad, not because we have made a conscious decision to be bad, but we are acting out our feelings.   Unfortunately this can lead to killing one's own child or someone else, because a person is acting out feelings, without good judgment.  If people do not learn good judgement, they do not have good judgment.  It is that simple. 

 

Ever since we had the nuclear bomb, our best defense for having it and preventing others from arming themselves against the US was, the US had not made a first strike,  That is, our military force was used for defense, not aggression.  Iraq was a first strike against a nation that was not hostile towards us.  Iraqis were not our enemy.  If we were justified in attacking these people just because their leader may have been working on nuclear abilities, than surely we are justified in attacking Iran and Korea right now.  Do you believe this justification?  Do you believe it is God's will we continue to use our military force to subdue the Mid East?   As it was God's will our Indo European race to over run the native Americans and put them on reservations, so that we might dominate the land from coast to coast? 

 

Discussing these matters is perfect for this thread about the right and duty to kill.   Who gives us this right and duty?  God or the state