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did Homo Erectus have religion? boat? dogs?

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  Quote onlywondering Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: did Homo Erectus have religion? boat? dogs?
    Posted: 22-Aug-2010 at 22:35
If Homo Erectus was cognizant enough to build fires, tools and boats (to get to Flores Island in Indonesia according to this old college textbook i'm reading) which by the way, if it was only 15 miles away couldn't they swim or drift there?) then were they inquisitive enough to perhaps formulate religions? One could imagine that the fire or stars might be seen as mysterious enough to ignite some types of maybe even pre-religious superstitions among them.

and as a sidenote, do you think homo erectus, habilis, Australopithecus,  might have worked with dogs/wolves on any level? If they didn't completely domesticate those animals, maybe the relationship was like that between the badger and the fox (two animals that sometimes hunt together and seem to respect eachother) ?
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2011 at 08:56

To my knowledge, no one has examined the known sites for Erectus with these thoughts in mind.  The assumption was made that any precursor to man was inferior in every way.

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2011 at 11:42
Could you imagine Erectus like atheist?
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2011 at 13:02
Originally posted by medenaywe

Could you imagine Erectus like atheist?
 
 
No, to be an atheist you have to be aware of the concept of a god.  First off, there are cultures left that don't have a belief based on a all powerful whizbang.  There are 2 in Malaysia that not only don't have a word for "god", they don't have a word for time either. [And just who is primitive? Sounds good to me]  They don't seem to need an explanation for everything that happens.  Tidal waves, typhoons, the attitude is eh! S*** happens.
 
 
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2011 at 13:26
  Divine is all that can not be explained for all of Homo Erectus units.For example, birth of human child is magical.Just like you  found Duck divine god ,here mother's figure is divine object with almost all features  that  will follow God's features in religions that will come after.Even Archangel Michael concept is present in form of mother's child that appears to punish someone or take someone soul.


Edited by medenaywe - 20-Jan-2011 at 15:00
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  Quote TheNode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2011 at 20:03
Originally posted by red clay

Originally posted by medenaywe

Could you imagine Erectus like atheist?
 
 
No, to be an atheist you have to be aware of the concept of a god.  First off, there are cultures left that don't have a belief based on a all powerful whizbang.  There are 2 in Malaysia that not only don't have a word for "god", they don't have a word for time either. [And just who is primitive? Sounds good to me]  They don't seem to need an explanation for everything that happens.  Tidal waves, typhoons, the attitude is eh! S*** happens.
 
 

I found this article a while ago, which presents evidence of early human sea voyages. As for religion, you would have to probably provide evidence for self-awareness, I would hypothesize it would have been shaman/animism; an undeveloped form, similar to that of a recent study of some chimpanzees (I don't really remember exactly) that carried a stick over periods of time, and it was concluded that it was used as a doll. Other observations, like behavior similar to human, when someone is deceased.

But divine is all that can not be explained for all of Homo Erectus units.For example birth of human child is magic.Just like you  found Duck divine god ,here mother figure is divine object with almost all features  that  will follow God features in religions that will come after.Even Archangel Michael concept is present in form of mother's child that appears to punish someone or take someone soul.

Why is it that, you sound like Google translate Smile

The 'God' complex would have developed through the projection of the heavenly father, the conceptual idea extended of the tribal function. I don't know if that can be applied to the Homo Erectus.
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  Quote Pytheus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2011 at 08:40
Homo Erectus built villages so I guess religion is likely. They must have chatted about something to one another and most primitive societies were very religious.
 
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2011 at 12:36
Originally posted by onlywondering

If Homo Erectus was cognizant enough to build fires, tools and boats (to get to Flores Island in Indonesia according to this old college textbook i'm reading) which by the way, if it was only 15 miles away couldn't they swim or drift there?) then were they inquisitive enough to perhaps formulate religions? One could imagine that the fire or stars might be seen as mysterious enough to ignite some types of maybe even pre-religious superstitions among them.

and as a sidenote, do you think homo erectus, habilis, Australopithecus,  might have worked with dogs/wolves on any level? If they didn't completely domesticate those animals, maybe the relationship was like that between the badger and the fox (two animals that sometimes hunt together and seem to respect eachother) ?


http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/ecology/home-erectus-cros  This link gives an explanation of the considerations about Homo Eretus' adventures and possible water crossing.   It is not for sure they built boasts and I don't that they did.  

I want to say Red Clay is correct about that there  has to be "theism" before there can be "atheism".  In this case the "a" is a prefix originating as a Greek word for "not".   The reason this is important to the larger argument, is the degree of thinking required  to have an abstract concept, such as God or not God;  and the relationship between this and the likelihood of Homo Erectus building a boat. 

We need to begin with making a distinction between concrete thinking and abstract thinking.  For example, can we walk through walls like a ghost might walk through walls?  Can I get to that island?   How do I answer these questions?  I try walking right?  What happens when I walk into the wall or the ocean?    This is concrete thinking. 

Next step of think.   I tried walking into the wall and walking into the ocean, now what?   Well I have heard, highly evolved Yogi can walk through walls like ghost, and I have heard other people have had out of body experiences.   Now this is not concrete reality.   It is an abstract thought.    Nothing in my experience has made me think it is possible to walk through a wall, yet I have a concept, an abstract thought, that it is possible.   Because of what I have heard, I think it might be possible to walk through walls, but know I do have that ability today.   How about getting to that island?

I see fish swimming and ducks floating on water, and may see elephants cross to an island, but can I do what they do?  These animals are not using boats.  How am I going to think about a boat?  Have I seen a log floating?   I can not think of floating on log unless I have seen a log floating.  If I see a floating log, I may see if I can float with the log, but not in the ocean!   Are you nuts?  Shocked I don't want to be carried out to sea with no idea of how I all get back.    If I am Homo Erectus, what experience do I have that makes me think of building a boat?   Can I even Swim?  How about snorkeling?  The link shows pictures of elephants swimming and their trunks stick out of the water.  Can I imitate that?  I am thinking, but I am not imaging a boat yet.   Give me something in my environment that can might imitate, because I have not learned about boats yet.  I am not an abstract thinker yet. 

PS, that means I am not thinking about the stars in the sky and God, that can be seen, nor directly experienced in anyway,  nor about using dogs as hunting partners.   If I see a dog I am going to through rocks and sticks at it, because I don't want it eating my food.  


Edited by Athena - 20-Jan-2011 at 12:45
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2011 at 12:57
Originally posted by medenaywe

But divine is all that can not be explained for all of Homo Erectus units.For example birth of human child is magic.Just like you  found Duck divine god ,here mother figure is divine object with almost all features  that  will follow God features in religions that will come after.Even Archangel Michael concept is present in form of mother's child that appears to punish someone or take someone soul.


Birth of child is magic?!  You assume I want that child?   I don't think so.   I don't have any fantasies about being a mother.  After having a child, the second time around, I have a better idea of how to behave with a child, but as Home Erectus, I am not indulging in romantic ideas of love and marriage and motherhood.   Heck, even as a human mother with known social expectations and books about child rearing, it was hard adjusting to being a mother. 

However, death.  Now there is something to think about, because it doesn't feel good when my world is changed by death.  What is death?   Why isn't he moving?  Can this happen to me?  How do I react?  What are others doing? 


Edited by Athena - 20-Jan-2011 at 13:01
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2011 at 13:47
Creation is human act?
Next time go to refrigerator  take some eggs,meat,corn flakes,salt,paper and bake this mixture in form of
human child.Will see no magic in this creation.But it is yours.Sorry you feel like used pan dish during the magical creation.Regards.
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2011 at 21:12
Originally posted by medenaywe

Creation is human act?
Next time go to refrigerator  take some eggs,meat,corn flakes,salt,paper and bake this mixture in form of
human child.Will see no magic in this creation.But it is yours.Sorry you feel like used pan dish during the magical creation.Regards.


I like puzzles, but after puzzling over what you wrote, I can not determine the meaning?  For sure feeling like a used pan dish, is a judgmental thought, and as Homo Erectus I don't have such thoughts.   I have no concept of a used dish pan is, and even if I did, I would not apply the concept to myself.  I am nothing like a dish pan.  What strange ideas you seem to have.  
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  Quote TheNode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2011 at 22:05
Originally posted by Athena

Originally posted by medenaywe

Creation is human act?
Next time go to refrigerator  take some eggs,meat,corn flakes,salt,paper and bake this mixture in form of
human child.Will see no magic in this creation.But it is yours.Sorry you feel like used pan dish during the magical creation.Regards.


I like puzzles, but after puzzling over what you wrote, I can not determine the meaning?  For sure feeling like a used pan dish, is a judgmental thought, and as Homo Erectus I don't have such thoughts.   I have no concept of a used dish pan is, and even if I did, I would not apply the concept to myself.  I am nothing like a dish pan.  What strange ideas you seem to have.  

I toled you! Its as if someone copy&pasted from google translate.
I don't think they had dogs, I've read that the domestication of horses was prior to dogs (though I may have jumbled those two up in my mind)...
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