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More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun
    Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 10:55
I made a distinction between Military and civilian.  If the assault rifles are part of the Military, they don.t count.  The Civilian population of the US holds x2 the number of firearms as the Military.
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 13:02
Originally posted by C. Isaurikon

Compared to virtually all other developed nations, the USA has a far higher homicide rate. I predict that if we took guns out of the equation, the assault rate would go up and the homicide rate would go down (a preferable scenario).


Most crime it committed by illegal gun owners and even if you banned all gun ownership the bad guys will still get them. We cannot stop the so-called war on drugs so what makes you believe we can stop gun smuggling. There was a good write up in the LA Time in 1999 about how the Chinese, through San Pedro, were smuggling fully automatic machine guns to LA gangs. It was via COSCO or Chinese Ocean Shipping Company.

We have a real problem with drug smuggler in our mountains so I do carry but my policy is to avoid them if I should come across smugglers, hide in the trees till them pass. So far it has not been a problem and being that they carry fully automatic weapons avoidance is the best policy but a 9mm is better than nothing. We also have lots of rattle snakes and other critter but I always leave them alone, just in case. Strange, there has been a increase in mountain lion attacks but usually close to larger populations because of the loss of habitat.

From Gun owners of America:

http://gunowners.org/links-to-source-studies.htm




Edited by eaglecap - 06-Jul-2010 at 14:47
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 13:05
Well, what it really meant, at least 20 years or so ago, is that since the military of Switzerland is composed of what can only be compared to the National Guard, here in the USA, are legally bound to become a Guardsman of Switzerland! And, they were then, and I assume now, also bound to defend certain parts of the nation, wherein, they reside!

You see, there is little difference between a "fully automatic" weapon, (which are regulated here in the USA) and a "semi-automatic!" Perhaps I should state that I would rather be shot at by someone with a "fully automatic" firearm than a "semi-automatic" firearm! Fully automatic weapons are designed to inflict "to whom it may or may not concern" carnage! It makes the marksmanship less obvious to those receiving the rounds!

Now I will make some comparisions, but since I am relying upon my own seriously demented memory, I have read that during the Korean Conflict, it was determined that enemy soldiers that were either killed or wounded by the United Nations Forces, there, were only one out of every 50,000 rounds fired.

And this was during a war where by the American troops were mostly firing a semi-automatic rifle, holding only 8 rounds!

What the numbers might have been in Vietnam, where the American forces were able to fire "fully automatic" fire, anytime, anywhere, the numbers must well be drastically higher, since their M-16's held a minimum of 20 rounds, and a maximum of 30! All they had to do was move the selector switch to "full!"

Thus in Vietnam, a lot of fire fights were determined or judged by what then became known as "supression fire!" In other words, just fire willy nilly into the jungles, and hope that the enemy ducked often enough and some of those "to whom it may concern rounds" actually hit somebody!

Well here I am again going on and on, with no real answer apparent!

What I am trying to get across is that fewer well aimed shots are usually better than hundreds of wildly fired shots at a common enemy!
And, as well, as I understand it, in Switzerland these semi or fully automatic weapons, as well as anti-tank, anti-personell, anti-aircraft missiles, etc., are kept within the reach of every Switz national guard member! Weapons of this type are highly controlled here in the USA, however! National Guard troops in the USA are not allowed to have these high powered weapons in there near proximitiy!

I am told that the Swiss are so allowed this!

But, of course I might well be mis-informed?

So I shall stop here!

Edited by eaglecap - 06-Jul-2010 at 14:46
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 15:39
I already went over this, the majority of the guns in Switzerland are issued by the military and its part of the mandatory military service. However, they are changing this after an incident in 2001 and growing gun crimes.

With regards to the US, its estimated that 46% of the nation owns atleast one gun, and as it was mentioned earlier, there are probably millions of illegal gun owners.

The problem here in the US is that its too easy to get a gun, and not just any gun, but the most dangerous weapons, military grade. There are some people out there who legally own guns who should not be allowed to.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 06-Jul-2010 at 15:41
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 16:22
TGS wrote;

"The problem here in the US is that its too easy to get a gun, and not just any gun, but the most dangerous weapons, military grade. There are some people out there who legally own guns who should not be allowed to."

So who give you the right to determine what one person or another should not own? Are you a god? Are you endowed with super powers?

What you so carelessly describe are "fully automatic" weapons, and others that have been "legally" released for sale to civilians!

It is controlled by the Treasury Department (ATF) for people too stupid to know!

So, when was the last time any of these "legally" sold and transferred weapons were used in any crime in the USA or other places?

By the virtue of your above post, you would lead others to beleive this is a serious problem!

The real facts, it seems, prove otherwise!

But, I only await your "facts!"

By the way, I have owned a SIG-AMT! Real Swiss workmanship! Like a clock! Or maybe even a Glock?



Edited by opuslola - 06-Jul-2010 at 16:26
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 16:30
If someone is messed up in the head, whether they have psychological issues, or too much hatred, or are vengeful, etc... whatever the reason may be, some people should not be allowed to own guns.

I believe if you want to own weapons, you should prove the following:

1) why you need a weapon and is your reason legitimate
2) are you psychologically sound enough to responsibly own a weapon
3) do you or have you had a criminal past or a drug related past (addiction)

I think this is very reasonable. A lot of the mass killers in US history have gotten their weapons legally! Had they been required to undergo a psychological evaluation, they probably would not have been allowed to own weapons.

Furthermore, what laws are in place are usually disregarded many times. Please tell me how the Virginia Tech shooter, who was clearly mentally unsound, was allowed to purchase guns.

Fact of the matter is that it is far too easy to get your hands on a weapon in this country, even if you were going to do it legally. In some places in the South, they give out free guns through promotions.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 06-Jul-2010 at 16:36
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 06:47
TGS wrote; "Fact of the matter is that it is far too easy to get your hands on a weapon in this country, even if you were going to do it legally. In some places in the South, they give out free guns through promotions."

Dear TGS, please try to understand your material before making comments like that above! Yes the weapons are given as part of a promotional gambit, like deposit $50,000 in a bank, and you will receive a $2,000 retail, rifle, etc.! You would lead most readers to think that the person(s) who did so, merely walked into the bank, and the bank manager went into the safe and removed one of the prizes and gives it to the winner, etc.!

But, that is not what happens TGS! To receive your weapon you have to go to a U.S. Government regulated Gun Shop, and fill out the required paperwork, that is required for every transaction of this type! This form is sent the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and placed in the files.

Also, the guns are not actually free like in the case I presented above, they are merely a part of the interest one might be expected to make on such a deposit of money! In other words, the gun is your interest!

Regards,



Edited by opuslola - 07-Jul-2010 at 06:48
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 10:26
Except when you go to the places which actually are certified to give out guns. There are Banks in the South, for example, that are also certified gun dealerships, thus through their promotion they can actually give you the gun and ammo as well.

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 10:39
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

Except when you go to the places which actually are certified to give out guns. There are Banks in the South, for example, that are also certified gun dealerships, thus through their promotion they can actually give you the gun and ammo as well.


While some Banker might well have gone thru the procedure to acquire a "FFL" (Federal Firearms License) I see little reason for it! I really see problems with such a structure, I.e. inspections, by the regulators, extra paperwork, etc.!

But, I cannot deny what you propose!
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 17:09
Earlier TGS wrote these words;

"With regards to the US, its estimated that 46% of the nation owns atleast one gun, and as it was mentioned earlier, there are probably millions of illegal gun owners."

Just what do you declare to be "illegal guns?"

A short reply will suffice!

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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 17:28
Guns not purchased legally are illegal, this should go without saying, but clear enough for ya?
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 17:30
I expected you to say that "un-registered" guns were illegal!

Thus I give you kudos for the correct answer!

Thanks for backing me up!
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 17:40
Originally posted by opuslola

I expected you to say that "un-registered" guns were illegal!

Thus I give you kudos for the correct answer!

Thanks for backing me up!


Unfortunately in some places you can legally own unregistered fire arms.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 18:01
TGS wrote;

"Unfortunately in some places you can legally own unregistered fire arms."

And I say "Thank God!"
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  Quote BIG D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2010 at 11:05

won't the criminals get guns no matter what???drugs are illegal, but there sure is a lot of that around..how easy/hard would it be to ban all guns, and get rid of them??

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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2010 at 14:17
Well, in many countries where position of firearms is illegal or extremely difficult to obtain, crime rates and murder rates are a lot lower.

In fact, the Mexican drug cartels get much of their weaponry from the United States, because its so easy to do so. Gun laws in this country are too lax.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 14-Nov-2010 at 14:18
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  Quote BIG D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2010 at 13:08
are not most of the murdered, criminals themselves, not counting domestic disputes???
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2010 at 14:23
I seem to be in agreement with Big D, concerning the innocence (or lack of it) of most of those persons murdered!

Of course when "gangstas" shoot at their fellows sometimes innocent persons receive the bullets, etc.! They might well be called "incidental" murders?

I think the military has some words for it?
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2010 at 14:30
Speaking of the legally armed American Citizen, I recently received this;

"If there’s anything that makes a concealed carry permit holder upset, its criminal safezones.

A criminal safezone is where only criminals are safe, because armed self defense is banned.

That’s why the National Association for Gun Rights has filed a lawsuit against the United State Postal Service.

The U.S. Postal Service uses bureaucratic rules to ban your right to carry in a Post Office, and that’s important, even if you don’t carry concealed –- it’s the camel’s nose under the tent.

We have already filed the lawsuit.

You see, the U.S. Postal Service claims citizens don’t have the right to self defense in Post Offices.

There’s one problem with that claim: it isn’t true.

The law cited by the Post Office creates an exception for “lawful carrying of firearms” for “other lawful purposes.” On top of that, both the Heller and McDonald Supreme Court decisions guarantee “the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation.”

Sounds like it should be simple, right?

Well, no government bureaucracy ever gave up power without a fight.

And, given the anti-gun nature of the Obama administration, we know they aren’t going to instruct the Postal service properly.

So I assumed you’d want your organization to act... and quickly.

Do you support this lawsuit on behalf of law-abiding citizens for their self defense?

I sincerely hope so.

I know, personally, it infuriates me to be disarmed just because I’m picking up my mail.

But imagine how Debbie Bonidy feels.

Debbie and Tab Bonidy live in the mountains of Colorado, and are the plaintiffs –- along with the National Association for Gun Rights –- against the Postal Service.

Debbie Bonidy doesn’t like going anywhere without her personal handgun, which is why she went through the trouble of being trained, proving she’s law-abiding, and getting her concealed carry permit. Not only does the U.S. Postal Service say she can’t carry that handgun for self protection in a Post Office, but they arrogantly claim she can’t even leave it in her car when in their lot.

If we win this lawsuit, that outrageous policy will change in every Post Office in America."

Just one prime example of the arrogance of the Federal Government! Have the Postal managers never heard of the term "Going Postal?" It seems that in the past, there have been a couple of instances whereby a Postal employee has resorted to gunfire to settle grudges within the offices, etc.!

Who, in a Post Office, or in the Postal parking lot, is there to protect you from disgruntled and killing Postal employees?

Edited by opuslola - 22-Nov-2010 at 14:32
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