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The American/Lebbonese, Helen!
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TheGreatSimba View Drop Down
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The American/Lebbonese, Helen!
    Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 18:02
Its opuslola, dont worry about it. Everyone knows how he acts. Just leave him be.I dont let it get to me, and you shouldnt either! LOL I'm willing to continue the discussion if you are, I just dont respond to posts like that, and I know he just wants the last word so I give it to him most of the time.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 23-Jul-2010 at 18:02
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 17:41
Originally posted by opuslola

TGS, I have to give it to you! You pull no punches, you show no mercy, and you have no respect for anyone!

As Chef Ramsey might say; F--k Off!"

Is this the last post to this thread?  

I think it is very important that we practice 3 rules.

1.  We respect everyone because we are respectful people.
2.  We act with dignity and protect the dignity of others.
3.  We act with integrity.

When we violate these rules, we risk offending someone and ruining a thread.  People of quality who have something worth saying, tend to pull away from from what is rude and crude and socially unacceptable, and the thread is then hurt by loosing them.  Others, will return the insult and then the thread is taken totally off topic and that ruins the thread too.  

When we follow the rules we are being honorable, and think how the world would be if we all honored one another.   Might this lead to everyone feeling good about themselves and others?
We might regain feelings of trust and honor.  

Might we know that Lebanon has been Christian, and Muslims do know of Jesus.  The more educated we become, the more likely it is we will maintain a high standard of good manners and diplomacy.   Hopefully, people from around the world will feel welcomed here, and we will have an opportunity to learn from all of them.   Let us avoid throwing stones, and offending others.   Smile


Edited by Carol - 23-Jul-2010 at 17:51
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 17:52
TGS, I have to give it to you! You pull no punches, you show no mercy, and you have no respect for anyone!

As Chef Ramsey might say; F--k Off!"
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 14:45
Originally posted by Airhead

Sorry I missed this earlier.  I would not like to be like Iran.  Iran doesn't have Jesus at the reigns.


So you want the US to become a Christian theocracy? Havent you learned from the example of other theocracies? Its not going to turn out well, whether Jesus has the reigns or someone else.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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Posts: 19 		  Quote Airhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 12:21
Sorry I missed this earlier.  I would not like to be like Iran.  Iran doesn't have Jesus at the reigns.
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2010 at 09:06
I agree with DreamWeaver, and I think Airhead is making generalizations and assumptions based on his own perceptions or his world view.

Again, I would like to ask Airhead, would you want the United States be a theocracy, like Iran perhaps? History has shown as that religious societies do not work, that is why we developed secularism.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2010 at 07:30
I am starting a thread  to discuss education for liberty and justice, because I think it is a good idea to keep threads on topic and also to label the topics so they are easy to find.  I am very pleased, people here want to discuss the subject.


If you want to discuss Education for Liberty and Justice please go to that thread.  This is the route to the thread Forum Home > Scholarly Pursuits > Intellectual discussions > Philosophy and Theology .



Edited by Carol - 17-Jul-2010 at 08:28
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Posts: 555 		  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2010 at 04:37
Has it go worse? Or is that just nostalgia? Looking back to some golden age that never really existed. Were the good old days really that good? I for one am immensely sceptical of that particular argument. Is it more the case that we simply recognise and 'fear' different things now? Have our views and priorities changed, in hand with medi hyperbole and scaremongering?

Burgulary, murder, muggings, rape, arson etc etc. None of these are new after all.

Odd how 'the good old days' is a theme consistent in society, social andmoral degredation appear to be a problem recognised by all at different times, each generation has a 'good old days' concept for their past and a dissapointment with the present and future.


Liberty and Justice are highly subjective after all.


As Dara O'Brien once said, the good old days werent really that good, you were just getting more sex, and besides you couldnt turn the light on after dark without the Luftwaffe bombing the shit out of you.
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Posts: 19 		  Quote Airhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2010 at 13:40
I remember a time when children could walk to the general store without any fears for their safety.  Now, not even the suburbs are safe like they used to be.  This is a clear sign that society is getting worse than it used to be.  When we turn our back on God, God turns His back on us.  America was formed on Christian values, and this is the bedrock for family values.  It does not surprise me to see society crumble as secular society takes the reigns, as some people do not want to be educated on right and wrong.
 
Secular society is teaching our children that everything is alright, even being evil.  Secular society is making our children less intelligent through the public school system that instructs teachers to be impersonal robots and just treat children like numbers. 


Edited by Airhead - 16-Jul-2010 at 13:47
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Originally posted by Airhead

 
Justice and liberty are really important for everyone.  Liberty and justice are defined by our family values, and there is not a big difference in family values.  Educating children how to behave in the right way is very important to maintaining liberty and justice in the world!


This isnt true, justice and liberty are universal terms. Human values are different from family values, different families have different values.
 
Originally posted by Airhead

 
As our savior said: “And he took a child and put him in the midst of them, and taking him in his arms, he said to them, ‘Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.’” (Mark 9:34-37)


If he ever existed. Most "Christians", especially in the United States, either have no idea what Jesus preached, or, if they do, they dont practice it.

Originally posted by Airhead

I love you Carol!  What a fantastic idea!  Education for liberty and justice are the most important things in the world.  Star


Agreed.

Originally posted by Airhead


Education used to be taught by the family, which is why people in the past had a much better grasp of family values.


This is not true, and a generalization.

Originally posted by Airhead


 Many of the problems in todays society are from society turning away from family values.


Again, not true. Family values are relative, they are not universal. Different families have different values, therefore, you cannot make such a claim. The problem is with the society as a whole.

Originally posted by Airhead

Why do they take down historic documents like the ten commandments  from historic buildings?


Only removed from public government funded places, which is the right thing to do. Secularism is far better than theocracy.

Originally posted by Airhead

 
Society wants to remove religion from society all the way, but it is religion that is the answer, it is not the problem.


Religion has done far more harm in the 20th century than good. Furthermore, would you want the US to become like Iran, a theocratic state?


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 16-Jul-2010 at 12:46
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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Posts: 19 		  Quote Airhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2010 at 12:09
Originally posted by Carol

I would love to reply to what you said, and an intense study of history could give us some exciting answers to your questions.  I just never thought to study the attempts for a New Age you mentioned, with your questions in mind.   It is hard to get the right answers without the right questions.Smile

I would love to argue the good and harm of imperialism.  

My specialty is education for liberty and justice.  

But all of this would be off topic for this thread.  Not that the thread is going so well, but if anyone wanted to join a discussion of these subjects, they would not look for them in this thread.   How about starting threads and send me a PM?  
 
I love you Carol!  What a fantastic idea!  Education for liberty and justice are the most important things in the world.  Star
 
Education used to be taught by the family, which is why people in the past had a much better grasp of family values.  Many of the problems in todays society are from society turning away from family values.
 
So many young people today lack basic respect.  I think this is aweful.  I wish I could sit each one down and teach them properly, but I can't be everywhere at once.  Why do they take down historic documents like the ten commandments  from historic buildings?  Society does not want us to honor our mothers and fathers anymore.  What is so evil about honoring our mothers and fathers?
 
Society wants to remove religion from society all the way, but it is religion that is the answer, it is not the problem.
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Posts: 19 		  Quote Airhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2010 at 11:22
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

Justice and liberty are what we know them to be, they are relative terms, but we can mostly agree on what justice and liberty are.

Hitlers idea of justice and liberty was not universal, it was restricted to the "Aryan race". Stalin and Pol Pot did not care about justice or liberty, they were merely power hungry dictators, nothing more.

Originally posted by opuslola


Now, unless every history book I ever read was incorrect, it was the British who opposed the Zionist takeover of Israel, and it was the former Soviet Union that supported them!

If I am wrong, then I have been living in an alternative world for the last 63 years!


The British never opposed such an idea, they simply had to also consider the Arab position.
 
Justice and liberty are really important for everyone.  Liberty and justice are defined by our family values, and there is not a big difference in family values.  Educating children how to behave in the right way is very important to maintaining liberty and justice in the world!
 
As our savior said: “And he took a child and put him in the midst of them, and taking him in his arms, he said to them, ‘Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.’” (Mark 9:34-37)
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2010 at 07:46
Here is information about the cold war period.  The Soviets took different sides depending on how they saw their best chances of having influence in the area.   To me they do not look like the bad guys, US media has made them out to be.  

http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000578

I think we need to get pass our nationalistic media hype and question why our nations are involved with other nations.   Who are the winners and who are the losers.  I don't think it right that Palestinians loose control of the land.  For sure Israel needs to update the Zionist dream to comply with the reality of environmental limits, and that the people in this region are not Europeans.   The Arabs fought to throw off the control of the Turks, believing the region would be under their control.
What does this look like to tolerant and respectful people?  
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2010 at 02:40
Actually the Soviets did arm the Jews, thru its satellite countries and with the black market, etc.! Slovakia, and Czech Rep., reportedly sent large amounts or arms to the Zionists.

But, I cannot now find my sources!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2010 at 19:21

Good thanks you straightened the out.  The Soviet position regarding Jews was mixed.  At times they were persecuted.  The Soviet interest in Israel was political, a desire to spread communism.  Making it more important to the US, so the US has given Israel huge amounts of foreign aid, more than any other country in the neighborhood.   We have escalated the likelihood of war, and the destruction of war, by sharing military technology with Israel.  

I used to have book written by a Jew, about smuggling arms out of the US after the second world war and before 1948.  
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2010 at 20:20
Originally posted by Carol

The Soviets were involved and continued to be involved.   Joseph Stalin supported Zionism.  
 
Stalin supported the early zionists because many were socialists and he saw the movement as a means to export socialism.  Stalin, however, did not arm Jewish zionists.  The Soviet Union did not gain the ability to support armed socialist movements until after WWII.  By then, the Israelis had all the weapons they needed from Jewish or other western donors.
 
Once Israeli orientated itself to the west, the Soviets began to support and arm the quasi socialist states of Egypt and Syria. 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2010 at 18:39
The Soviets were involved and continued to be involved.   Joseph Stalin supported Zionism.  I am editing a correction.   Stalin also turned against the Jews.  He tried to appease the Germans by becoming anti semitic and from there anti semiticism got worse.  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War

The Soviets have been arming Arabs.  Which in turn increases US interest in protecting Israel.     http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=12828

I am quite sure, this interest in the region is strategic.  As has been interest in Baghdad since before the first world war.  All the major powers want to be the one's in control of the region, and they don't really care how they get control.   


Edited by Carol - 10-Jul-2010 at 19:04
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2010 at 18:11
 I think if you check this site, you will find some interesting information: http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3424600294.html

At first the British were not interested in getting involved with the Arab conflict with the Turks, but as the second world war developed, they became interested in using the Arabs to tie up Turkish troops.
The Arabs agreed to co operate with the British,  on the condition the Arab countries were allowed to be independent.  Britain agreed to this, except for Palestine.  It could not agree on Palestine's independence, because of another commitment.  

At this time, it just so happens a that Rothchild controls the British bank.  Britain had to barrow the money to supply the Arabs.  

Tracing all this stuff down, is very productive because it gives us a much better understanding of what is happening today.   



Edited by Carol - 10-Jul-2010 at 18:12
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2010 at 11:12
Originally posted by opuslola

So Carol, no mention of the Soviets? Were not the Soviets the ones sending arms and ammunnition to the Jews?
The Soviets were not arming the Jews.  The only Soviet connection to the colonization was that many of the early Jewish settlers were either bonafide socialists or socialist sympathizers.  
Originally posted by Carol

 The Brits lead the Arabs to believe they would have control of the region, but they also promised the land for Israel to the Rothchilds and the Zionist dream of a new Israel. 
 
I agree with your summary, but not this point.  I do not think that the British were interested in helping jews per se to immigrate to Palesetine. Instead, they saw the apparently successful French policy in Algeria (millions of poorer French, Italians, Spanish etc are encouraged to settle in Algeria. Algeria gets europeanized and becomes a part of France). 
 
Most Europeans were not willing to settle in Palestine, but some Jews were.  The British were looking for European settlers to Eurpeanize the area so it was a happy arrangement for both. 


Edited by Cryptic - 10-Jul-2010 at 11:23
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2010 at 08:06
If I explained everything, I would be writing a book not post small enough for people to read.

Yes, the intense US interest in Israel was very much about the cold war.  When the Brits pulled out of Israel, it gave the USSR an opening, and they did their best to ally with Israel, believing Israel would be socialist and sided the USSR.   


These struggles are strategic struggles.  They are essential to military and economic power.  The big imperialistic  players don't care about the little players,( the Egyptians and Arabs by whatever name they want to be called).    This is the problem.  The big players care no more about the Palestinians than they cared about native Americans, and they are basically the same group that devastated the native American cultures.   The big players view indigenous people as ants, or at best as cheap labor. Their only concern is to prevent the indigenous people from becoming a problem to them, and getting the labor necessary to exploit the region.   The point important here is that these are strategically important struggles.   This has been true since these powers struggle for control of the Baghdad Railroad, only back then, Germany was a much bigger player in the game.  


Edited by Carol - 10-Jul-2010 at 08:16
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