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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Encarta Encyclopedia mistaks
    Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 05:25

 

Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.
Lands of Semitic Peoples
Contrary to popular thought, which designates Semites as adherents of Judaism, Semites are, in fact, those people who speak Semitic languages such as Arabic and Hebrew. Semitic peoples live primarily in areas of the Middle East and northern Africa, as shown here.
Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia 2003. 1993-2002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
what is the mistak here?
 


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  Quote Exarchus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 06:48
I can't see the pictures but I'm pretty semitic refers to a large amount of people and not only to adherent of Judaism. I think Palestinians are as semitic as the Israelites.

Though I can't think of Egyptians and Tunisians as semitic.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 07:47
can't see the map either. But any map of semitic people's that includes Israel is probably going to wrong in my book. Most modern Israeli's are of European descent.
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 08:02
Though I can't think of Egyptians and Tunisians as semitic.


If they speak Arabic, then yes they are.
Semetic is a linguistic label, though it does also have biblical connotations, not limited to Jews, from which teh linguistic lable is derived from, but not takem seriously by many people.
The modern misconception that  Semetic = just Jews and nothing else is just that, a misconception.

Most modern Israeli's are of European descent.


Only 1/3 IIRC, and thats simply by recent family birth.
Don't forget that many European Jews are themselves descendant from Middle Eastern Jews who were kicked out of Spain.
But again, this has nothing to do with linguistics.
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 02:15

i hope the map will apear this time

 

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 04:09
Ah, better.
Well I'm not sure Turkey should be in there, i mean, sure, there is a minority of Arabic speakers in Turkey, but hey, theres a minority of Arabic speakers in Amsterdam too.

Sudan, Arabic is for sure the official language, but that country is very diverse linguisticly, and theres little in the way of official figures, but for sure there are a lot of Arabic speakers there. Mauritania is similar.
That said, significant speakers of a semitic language is all that is needed to be on that map, so they are fine.

I'm not sure how many Arabic speakers there are in Somalia, but poportionatly its more than Turkey thats for sure. Somalian is an Afro-Asatic language (as are all semetic languages), but i'm not sure if all Afro-Asatic languages are there for Semetic.
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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 05:20

 

 

 Turks aren't semites??

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 05:27

 

 Turks by definition are Turkic speaking people.

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 05:29

The Arab world

The Arab world

The Arab world comprises 22 countries stretching from Morocco in the west to Oman in the east. They have a combined population of 300 million people and their combined economies surpass USD$1 trillion annually.

The majority of people in Arab countries profess Islam, but sizable numbers of Arab Christians live in Lebanon, Palestine, Egypt, Syria and elsewhere. (The majority of Arab Americans also profess Christianity.) Overall, Arabs make up less than one third of the world's one billion Muslims, a group sometimes referred to as the Islamic World.

The Arab League is a political organization intended to encompass the Arab world. Its permanent headquarters are located in Cairo, Egypt.

The Arabic language forms a unifying feature of the Arab world: though different areas use local dialects of Arabic, all share in the use of the standard classical language. This contrasts with the situation in the wider Islamic world, where Arabic retains its cultural prestige primarily as the language of religion and of theological scholarship, but the populace generally uses non-Arabic languages.

States

These states might be officially or semi-officially included as part of the Arab world:

Geography

The Arab world stretches across more than 11 million square kilometers (4 million square miles) of North Africa and the part of western Asia called the Middle East (the Arabian Peninsula or simply Arabia). (In conventional usage, the term "Middle East" includes Egypt and Libya, both part of Africa; hence the term is probably as much cultural as geographical.)

Its total area is the size of the entire Spanish-speaking Western Hemisphere (also 11 million square kilometers), larger than Canada (10 million), China (9.6 million), the United States (also 9.6 million), Brazil (8.7 million), or Europe excluding Russia (5.6 million). Only Russiaat 17 million square kilometers, the largest country in the worldand arguably Anglophone North America (18 million square kilometers) are larger geocultural units.

The term Arab often connotes the Middle East, but the larger (and more populous) part of the Arab world is North Africa. Its 8 million square kilometers include the two largest countries of the African continent, Sudan (2.5 million square kilometers) in the southeast of the region and Algeria (2.4 million) in the center, each about three-quarters the size of India, or about one-and-a-half times the size of Alaska, the largest state in America. The largest country in the Arab Middle East is Saudi Arabia (2 million square kilometers).

At the other extreme, the smallest autonomous mainland Arab countries in North Africa and the Middle East are Djibouti (23,000 square kilometers) and Lebanon (10,400), respectively, and the smallest island Arab countries are Comoros (2,170) and Bahrain (665).

Historical boundaries

The political borders of the Arab world have wandered with history, leaving Arab minorities in non-Arab countries of the Sahel and the Horn of Africa as well as in the Middle Eastern countries of Israel and Iran, and also leaving non-Arab minorities in Arab countries. However, the basic geography of sea, desert, and mountain provide the enduring natural boundaries for this region.

The Arab world straddles two continents, Africa and Asia, and is oriented mainly along an east-west axis, dividing it into African and Asian (Arabian, Middle Eastern) areas.

Arab Africa

Arab Africaor more commonly, Arab North Africa, though this is redundantis roughly a long trapezoid, narrower at the top, that comprises the entire northern third of the continent. It is surrounded by water on three sides (west, north, and east) and desert or desert scrubland on the fourth (south).

In the west, it is bounded by the shores of the Atlantic Ocean. From northeast to southwest, Morocco, Western Sahara (claimed by Morocco), and Mauritania make up the roughly 2,000 kilometers of Arab Atlantic coastline. The southwestern sweep of the coast is gentle but substantial, such that Mauritania's capital, Nouakchott (18N, 16W), is far enough west to share longitude with Iceland (13-22W). Nouakchott is the westernmost capital of the Arab world and the third-westernmost in Africa, and sits on the Atlantic fringe of the southwestern Sahara. Next south along the coast from Mauritania is Senegal, whose abrupt border belies the gradient in culture from Arab to black African that historically characterizes this part of West Africa.

Arab Africa's boundary to the north is again a continental boundary, the Mediterranean Sea. This boundary begins in the west with the narrow Strait of Gibraltar ( ), the 13-kilometer-wide channel that connects the Mediterranean with the Atlantic to the west, and separates Morocco from Spain to the north. East along the coast from Morocco are Algeria, Tunisia, and Libya, followed by Egypt, which forms the region's (and the continent's) northeastern corner. The coast turns briefly but sharply south at Tunisia, slopes more gently southeastward through the Libyan capital of Tripoli, and bumps north through Libya's second city, Benghazi, before turning straight east again through Egypt's second city, Alexandria, at the mouth of the Nile. Along with the spine of Italy to its north, Tunisia thus marks the junction of western and eastern Mediterranean, and a cultural transition as well: west of Tunisia begins the region of the Arab world known as the Maghreb ().

Historically the 4,000-kilometer Mediterranean boundary has fluttered. Population centers north of it in Europe have invited contact and Arab explorationmostly friendly, though sometimes not. Islands and peninsulas near the Arab coast have changed hands. The islands of Sicily and Malta lie just a hundred kilometers east of the Tunisian city of Carthage, which has been a point of contact with Europe since its founding in the first millenium B.C.E.; both Sicily and Malta at times have been part of the Arab world. Just across the Strait of Gibraltar from Morocco, regions of the Iberian peninsula were part of the Arab world throughout the Middle Ages, extending the northern boundary at times to the foothills of the Pyrenees and leaving a substantial mark on local and wider European and Western culture.

The northern boundary of the African Arab world has also fluttered briefly in the other direction, first through the Crusades and later through colonization by France, Britain, Spain, and Italy. Another visitor from northern shores, Turkey, controlled the east of the region for centuries, though not as a colonizer. Spain still maintains two small enclaves, Ceuta and Melilla, along the otherwise Moroccan coast. Overall this wave has ebbed, though like the Arab expansion north it has left its mark. The proximity of North Africa to Europe has always encouraged interaction, and this continues with Arab immigration to Europe and European interest in the Arab countries today. However, population centers and the physical fact of the sea keeps this boundary of the Arab world settled on the Mediterranean coastline.

To the east, the Red Sea defines the boundary between Africa and Asia, and thus also between Arab Africa and the Arab Middle East. This sea is a long and narrow waterway with a northwest tilt, stretching 2,300 kilometers from Egypt's Sinai peninsula southeast to the Bab al Mendeb strait between Djibouti in Africa and Yemen in Arabia but on average just 150 kilometers wide. Though the sea is navigable along its length, historically much contact between Arab Africa and the Arab Middle East has been either overland across the Sinai or by sea across the Mediterranean or the narrow Bab al Mendeb strait. From northwest to southeast, Egypt, Sudan, and Eritrea form the African coastline, with Djibouti marking Bab al Mendeb's African shore.

Southeast along the coast from Djibouti is Somalia, but the Somali coast soon makes a 90-degree turn and heads northeast, mirroring a bend in the coast of Yemen across the water to the north and defining the south coast of the Gulf of Aden. The Somali coast then takes a hairpin turn back southwest to complete the horn of Africa. For six months of the year the monsoon winds blow from up equatorial Somalia, past Arabia and over the small Yemeni archipelago of Socotra, to rain on India; they then switch directions and blow back. Hence the east- and especially southeast-coast boundary of Arab Africa has historically been a gateway for maritime trade and cultural exchange with both East Africa and the subcontinent. The trade winds also help explain the presence of the Comoros islands, an Arab-African country, off the coast of Mozambique, near Madagascar in the Indian Ocean, the southernmost part of the Arab world.

The southern boundary of Arab North Africa is the stripe of scrubland known as the Sahel, that crosses the continent south of the Sahara, dipping further south in Sudan in the east.

Arabia and the Arab Middle East

The Asian or Middle Eastern Arab world comprises the Arabian peninsula, more broadly or narrowly defined. The peninsula is a roughly a tilted rectangle that leans back against the slope of northeast Africa, the long axis pointing toward Turkey and Europe.

References

  • Hourani, Albert (1991). A History of the Arab Peoples. Cambridge, MA: Warner Books.
  • Reader, John (1997). Africa: A Biography of the Continent. New York: Vintage.
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  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 05:43

In Turkey Semitic speaking population would be less than %1 or may be even less than %0,5. They are Arabs, Assyrians (Suryani) and Jews.

So I think this is the biggest mistake of the encyclopedia subject since Turkey is a big country with 70-72 million population. A mistake that should not be made by an encyclopedia.



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  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 05:55
It's not like the first time and is starting to bug BIG TIME. NG removed the word "Persian Gulf" and printed Arabian Gulf instead in their 2005 Atlas and they put the word "occupied by Iran" next to Iranian islands! a shameful mistake as an official source.
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 06:09
Paul, whilst thats interesting and all, the Arab world != Semetic speaking countries, though the two obviously overlap.

Frankly for the Persian/Arabian gulf issue, any book can call it whatever the hell it wants, the bit about the islands sounds iffy though, but its probably a pragmatic economic decision if they are planning on selling books in the area (much like the coca-cola Vs Pepsi thing).
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 09:07

Originally posted by Cywr

Ah, better.
Well I'm not sure Turkey should be in there, i mean, sure, there is a minority of Arabic speakers in Turkey, but hey, theres a minority of Arabic speakers in Amsterdam too.

Sudan, Arabic is for sure the official language, but that country is very diverse linguisticly, and theres little in the way of official figures, but for sure there are a lot of Arabic speakers there. Mauritania is similar.
That said, significant speakers of a semitic language is all that is needed to be on that map, so they are fine.

I'm not sure how many Arabic speakers there are in Somalia, but poportionatly its more than Turkey thats for sure. Somalian is an Afro-Asatic language (as are all semetic languages), but i'm not sure if all Afro-Asatic languages are there for Semetic.

i guess the map does not show the distribution of the semetic people , it shows more the areas controled by semetic people. and the mistake there is putting Turkey with them.

Originally posted by ramin

It's not like the first time and is starting to bug BIG TIME. NG removed the word "Persian Gulf" and printed Arabian Gulf instead in their 2005 Atlas

about the Gulf name as many iranians as this guy in this site http://www.iranian.com/NaderHabibi/2005/February/PG/ they dont like the Gulf to be called Arabian Gulf and they are very sensitive about it.

i call it Arabian Gulf as many Arab countries and people say it and it is Printed in our books as Arabian gulf.

iam not saying that its was called Arabian Gulf befoere, as far as i know it was Persian Gulf for a long period of time.

the Other fact that we Arabs and some other countries Calling it Arabian Gulf these days. also some Other countries are calling it  The Gulf.

anyway iam not as sensitive about this subject as many iranians, we call it Arabian and they Call it Persian.

i guess it may be similar to the sea between Japan and korea which the korean call it the sea of Korea while japan call it the sea of Japan.

Originally posted by ramin

and they put the word "occupied by Iran" next to Iranian islands! a shameful mistake as an official source
.

this is no mistake, these Islands are Occupied by Iran. and Iran is Ignoring all the efforts to solve this problems. i guess if they have proofs they wont Ignore UAE, Ignore the Arabic countries and Ignore the UN. (i gnore them about the Island's matter)

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 09:59

This map is funny

I cant understand how can an official encyclopedia can show Turkey as semitic. I mean, even a person without no knowledge of history or linguistics can differ Turkey from Semitic nations. If Turkey is shown semitic, you can look for more mistakes in that encyclopedia, including showing all Turkic states as Germenic originated

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 10:13
Also, only the southern part of Turkish Thrace is semetic, apparently the people in the North are different.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 12:01
I'm not sure about southern thrace, but in southeastern Turkey their are numerous bilingual and Arabic speaking people. It is still dwarfed by the amount of Turkish and Kurdish speaking peoples though. Turkish lanquage has many foreign words in its lexicon, Arabic included. The Turks and the Turkish lanquage are Altaic and not semetic.

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  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 13:32

Originally posted by Cywr

Also, only the southern part of Turkish Thrace is semetic, apparently the people in the North are different.

Sorry but what did you mean by Turkish Thrace? If you are talking about Gypsies of Thrace they are not Semitic but Indo European.

Not: Thrace is the European part of Turkey.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 13:42
Yes, there lives no Semitic minority in Thracia. There is only a tiny Arabic population in southern Turkey, mostly in Adana, Hatay and Mara...
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 13:53

Sorry but what did you mean by Turkish Thrace? If you are talking about Gypsies of Thrace they are not Semitic but Indo European.

Not: Thrace is the European part of Turkey.


I know that, but if you look at that crappy map, thrace is the only part of Turkey that isn't Semetic, so the question is, what according to the encarta, is so different about the people in Thrace as opposed to the rest of Turkey?

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 18:48
According to that map Thrace isn't semitic, but the Dardanelles are 
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