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Horned helmets

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Horned helmets
    Posted: 28-Mar-2010 at 11:36
I saw this one in a museum in Mashahd:
 
 
Several other similar Persian helmets can be found in other museums and personal collections too:
 
 
 
 
 
What do you think about the origin of horned helmets? As you read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horned_helmet European Bronze Age and Iron Age helmets with horns are known from a few depictions, and even fewer actual finds. Such helmets mounted with animal horns or replicas of them were probably used for religious ceremonial or ritual purposes.
 
Is there any mention of using these helmets for military purposes?
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  Quote SonOfIran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2010 at 20:30

Awesome pictures. Are they of Safavid origin?

It is also interesting to note that Rustam (Shahnameh) also had a horned helmet. Perhaps they were inspired by Ferdowsi's masterpice?
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2010 at 21:38
Dear all,

Imanuel Velikovsky, made a very big deal about these horned helmets, in his works concerning the inscripions found at Medinet Habu, and attributed to the times of Ramesses III!

And, as you should well know, Velikovsky also removed Rameses from his currently believed time of around 1200 BCE, to the Persian period in the 5th century BCE or so or what ever time is now alloted to the time of Nectanebo. Please see the book "Peoples of the Sea" for a more complete explanation of Velikovsky's theory!

I may well have mentioned information concerning the above somewhere else on this site?

But it does seem remarkable that the above Persian helmets, while not identical to those seen carved into the walls at Medinet Habu, are at the least, close cousins! And, as has been said, remains of any helments of this type are very rare.

So, did Velikovsky actually use this helmet type to connect the Persians to Ramesses III / Nectanebo or was it something else? As I remember the Velikovsky theory the soldiers wearing the "horned helments with the disc between the horns", was supposed to be Greek, and not some mysterious Sea People!

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 28-Mar-2010 at 21:42
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2010 at 23:19

Awesome pictures. Are they of Safavid origin?

Yes they are all from the Safavid and post-Safavid era, the fact is that Safavids revived the Persian identity to be distinguished from Sunni neighbors, so these helmets could be considered as Persian symbols too.

It is also interesting to note that Rustam (Shahnameh) also had a horned helmet. Perhaps they were inspired by Ferdowsi's masterpice?

Certainly, the face of White Devil (Div-e Sepid) can be seen in most of these helmets, as you read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Div-e-Sepid Rostam slays Div-e Sepid and uses his heart and blood to cure the blindness of the king and the captured Persian heroes. Rostam also takes the Div's head as a helmet and is often pictured wearing it.



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 29-Mar-2010 at 03:31
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2010 at 12:55
Funny, unlike popular myth the Vikings did not have horned helmets.   I have seen numerous illustrations showing Kelts with horn-like helmets
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2010 at 14:57

I should mention that other than Rustam, some other characters in Shahnameh also wore horned helmets, in 1971 Tajiks made a movie titled "The Timeless Story of Rustam and Sohrab" in Tajikstan, you can see in this movie that Afrasiab, the mythical King of Turan, has also a horned helmet:

 
Part of the movie:

I have seen numerous illustrations showing Kelts with horn-like helmets
 
You can read about Rostam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostam 
 
There are some interesting similarities between the legends of Rostam and those pertaining to the great Irish hero, Cúchulainn. They both defeat a ferocious beast as a very young man, slay their sons in combat, are virtually invincible in combat, and are murdered by treachery while killing their murderer on their last breath.
 
About Cúchulainn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BA_Chulainn (Rostam and Cú Chulainn share several other characteristics ...)
 
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2010 at 10:50
I would like each of you to view this site, and make sure you review the possible helment variations supposedly used by the Sea People called the Shardanu!

http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/sea.htm

These helment types were reportedly used in the period of 1300 BCE to about 1100 BCE!


You might well note that the "The Safavid Empire was a powerful Islamic empire that began in 1501 and ended in 1723." Note; the above empire rep[ortedly existed in the Current Era or about 3000 years after the examples of similar helments found at the above site!

Quite a long time to remember a certain design and / or reproduce it!

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 12:40
I think it can be a good reason to say the unknown Sea People were probably an Indo-European people, of course horned helmets were worn by some non-Indo-European people too, for example it is said Sargon of Akkad (2334-2279 BC) has a horned helmet in the Stele of Naram-Sin:
 
 
Similar ones can be seen in the Seal of Adda from the same period:
 
 
But as you see these Akkadian horned helmets/hats are somehow different from Indo-European ones, it seems the edge of the Akkadian hat has the form of a horn.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 13:21
Cyrus showed us some conical (horn shaped) helments,with what looks like candles upon the sides! Perhaps they are candles and the figures are celebrating a holy day?

See; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menorah_(Hanukkah)

Just something to think about!

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 20:16
It is possible but horned animals can be found everywhere in the world and it can't be strange that some people wear hats which make them look like those animals, in spite of it, I still think that the horned helmets of the Sea People look like Indo-European ones, unless some other similar ones are found from other peoples.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 20:30
Cyrus, you wrote, in part; "in spite of it, I still think that the horned helmets of the Sea People look like Indo-European ones, unless some other similar ones are found from other peoples."

Sir, I don't think that I ever disregared that point! Indo-European can go both ways! I could well be called "European-Indo?"

Sir, have you ever read the works of Velikovsky?

Do, you agree with the establishments view of the Persian domination of Egypt?

It is just such problems that worry me!

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  Quote jedc53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2010 at 06:08
Horned and winged helmets of this type have been traced to mostly pre viking German.This 'helmet' was dredged from the River Thames at Waterloo Bridge in the early 1860s.It is the only Iron Age helmet to have ever been found in southern England,I have a plasma cannon long fang with one of the chaos marauder spiked helmets.
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  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2011 at 11:43
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I think it can be a good reason to say the unknown Sea People were probably an Indo-European people, of course horned helmets were worn by some non-Indo-European people too, for example it is said Sargon of Akkad (2334-2279 BC) has a horned helmet in the Stele of Naram-Sin:
 
 
Similar ones can be seen in the Seal of Adda from the same period:
 
 
But as you see these Akkadian horned helmets/hats are somehow different from Indo-European ones, it seems the edge of the Akkadian hat has the form of a horn.



Similarly, this is also found in Assyrian bas-reliefs. If you look closely, the Anunaki has a horn but since he giving us his side, the horn is also seen from the side and not protruding like in the simpler Akkadian relief.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/2439493019/
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2011 at 18:14
Dear Baal, I am glad that you brought this one back up! Could you consider these horned helments a predecessor to the so called "Crescent" symbol, some times however seen as a "circle" that is now thought to represent Islam?

That is, instead of any Moon relation, the symbol might well represent "Horns?"

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  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2011 at 22:54
But why woud it represent horns? Plus the 'hilal' (crescent) is usually directed to the side and not upward. If you can find a reasonable explanation as for this connection then I don't think we can easily dismiss that it symbolises the moon.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2011 at 09:48
I started another thread about Horned skulls being found in various places world wide.  I found several cultures in which "Horns" denoted kingship or power over others.  Might these horned helmets be an emulation of something or someone in a very distant past?
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2011 at 16:14
Red, would you be speaking about Moses/Zeus, etc.?

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2011 at 16:35
He is talking about weird skull with horns Opuslola.Were those helmets just symbols of creatures that somehow had ruled Earth superior&fearsome once!?!I do not thing it is about male,which wife gave him this helmet as anniversary gift.With inscriptions:"Sempre Fi!Big smile
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2011 at 20:22
NO! I consider those skulls as aborations at best and merely fakes at worst!

Any society that respected or worshiped the "Bull", whould naturally use the fighting symbol of the bull, in their warrior form.

Think? Just why are "Bull fights" still so popular in some places?

Of course it is harder to make a representation of a "fighting Cock" look impressive upon one's helment!

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 29-May-2011 at 20:27
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  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2011 at 09:42
Oh yeah?!



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