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Kanas_Krumesis View Drop Down
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Posts: 326 		  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why Muslims are a dangerous people?!
    Posted: 11-Nov-2010 at 13:09
Originally posted by Athena

Had the Germans known of Islam at the time of the Protestant Reformation, we would probably be Muslims, because their compliants are so close to the complaints Protestants made. 
 
This is the biggest lie I ever read. Europe from the epoch of Reformation is place where have flourished ideas of humanism and knowledge. Impressive growth of the civilization which is still visible today. I don`t see any connection between Islam and all of this things. I personally feel respect only towards doctrine of Sufism. I like the philosophy of non-violence in this doctrine, humanism, promotion of science. Interestingly Sufism is moving away from orthodox Islam. Thats why today Sufism is regarded as heresy in the most of Islamic world. If Sufism had taken precedence in Muslim world, may be today the world would be a better place to live. I think this is the best thing that Islam has given the world, but hopeless died. Now Islam is nothing more but a fallacious semi-politic sect. An instrument for mental and physical oppression. Muslim world today is dominated by extremist and retrograde doctrine of Wahhabism, financed by oil money. This inhuman sect, which ruled Saudi Arabia with help of our own money, keep dirty war against Europe and all Christianity from a long time. The real face of Islam in Europe is arrogant and aggressive.
 
 
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Posts: 403 		  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2010 at 13:21
Sorry, can not do, any more than Rome could gain control of Rome when it exhausted its known  gold mines.  The economies of all industrial nations depend on oil.  President Carter did his best convince us we had to conserve our supply of oil and Reagan lied to us when he said this was not necessary.  He proceeded to use researrch on welfare fraud to scapegoat the poor for the recession caused by OPEC embargoing oil to the US, and slash domestic budgets, and poured all the moeny he could into military spending.   The Eisenhower administration had made this possible as he estanblished the Military Industrial Complex.  Later Bush and Cheney used 9/11 to proceed with the New Century American Project.  This all driven by what was known in the 1920's.
 
I wish I had noted which 1920 newspaper I was microfilming when I came across a tiny back page article that said "Given our known supply of oil and rate of consumption, we are headed for economic disaster and possibly war".   When the Bush administration began talking about invading Iraq, I began googling for information and learned about the Baghdad Railroad and how desire to control this are of world is behind both world wars, and our present trouble with those threatening Muslims.  An ignorant mass is a dangerous thing, and for many years I fought to raise awareness of our need to conserve oil, while everyone including newspaper editors refused to believe we didn't have all the old we needed.   The masses still are not well informed, but they are willing to believe Muslims are dangerous people and that justifies our military action in this region.  
 
Incase anyone missed it, the economies of all industrial nations fell and the world went to war, soon after the 1920 warning.  At the time the US was the worlds supply of oil.  The Rothchild's knew of oil in the mid east because they used it for karosene.  The technology of modern warfare made  oil vital to military strength.  To clarify, oil is vital to all industrial economies and it is vital to modern warfare, and watch out for those Muslims because they are dangerous people, and you know, Rome must use its military force to subdue those barbarians.  May be the best way to understand this problem is to study our bibles and the Koran?  LOL  got to find those statements in the bible and the Koran that help us know the will of God and the threat Muslims pose, right?   Just don't pay to pay too much attention to what Jesus said, because this would ruin all the fun.   In the meantime subdize gasoline and building gas guzzling vehicles because this is what the people want and it is good for the economy.Confused  Sure Reagan, we don't need to conserve, we just need a very strong military force. 
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Posts: 403 		  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2010 at 13:24
Originally posted by Kanas_Krumesis

Originally posted by Athena

Had the Germans known of Islam at the time of the Protestant Reformation, we would probably be Muslims, because their compliants are so close to the complaints Protestants made. 
 
This is the biggest lie I ever read. Europe from the epoch of Reformation is place where have flourished ideas of humanism and knowledge. Impressive growth of the civilization which is still visible today. I don`t see any connection between Islam and all of this things. I personally feel respect only towards doctrine of Sufism. I like the philosophy of non-violence in this doctrine, humanism, promotion of science. Interestingly Sufism is moving away from orthodox Islam. Thats why today Sufism is regarded as heresy in the most of Islamic world. If Sufism had taken precedence in Muslim world, may be today the world would be a better place to live. I think this is the best thing that Islam has given the world, but hopeless died. Now Islam is nothing more but a fallacious semi-politic sect. An instrument for mental and physical oppression. Muslim world today is dominated by extremist and retrograde doctrine of Wahhabism, financed by oil money. This inhuman sect, which ruled Saudi Arabia with help of our own money, keep dirty war against Europe and all Christianity from a long time. The real face of Islam in Europe is arrogant and aggressive.
 
 
 
Excuse me, but if you are going to argue what I said about the Koran and Protestants making the same arguments against Jews and Catholics, you at least need the information provided in the link to make a rational arguments.   You have spouted off with the necessary information. 


Edited by Athena - 11-Nov-2010 at 13:28
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Posts: 326 		  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2010 at 13:54

You mix too many concepts, don`t you think? The information in the link isn`t any official doctrine of Islam. In Islam there is nothing like official doctrine, but priests who interpret Quran. Official edition of Quran is published by government of Saudi Arabia. Historical there were several variation of Quran, but only Cairo edition is accept as right is Islamic world today. Due to the peculiarities of Arabic alphabet one and the same word could have different meaning. I`ve read several translation of Quran (Cairo edition) and found many differences. Everything depend from interpreter and his personal attitude towards matter. What else?

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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2010 at 15:44
I believe the problem is just Islam, not Iran, Saddam, ... in the current situation the best thing is that Islamic countries are kept in the lowest level of the power, a powerful Islamic country will be a threat to the whole world, unfortunately Obama doesn't work good at all, as you see Islamic regime of Iran is causing problem and insecurity everywhere, it sounds ridiculous to say that Iran with help of Venezuela is building a canal between Nicaragua and Costa Rica to be rival of Panama canal, just because Panama is a country with a pro-American orientation.
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Posts: 403 		  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2010 at 16:27
Okay, can we begin working with some agreements? 
 
1. Islam is not original, but is built on knowledge of Judaism and Christianity.
 
2.  Mohammid wasn't mystically given knowledge of God's word, but got it from Christians and Jews who lived in his nieghborhood.
 
3.  There are reasons he and his followers did not convert to Judaism or Christianity, and they created a new religion.
 
4.  Like the beginning of Christianity there were many different versions of God's truth, until a group of people were given the authority to chose which stories to put in the holy book and which ones to throw out. 
 
5.  Among the believers there was a power struggle and a division.  This division and power struggle lead to wars.  True for both Christians and Muslims.   Also true in the long history of Christian and Muslim wars, leading Genghis Khan to tell his people to never choose one religion over the other. 
 
6.  Within both Christianity and Islam there have been leaders who supported their holy word by embracing Hellenism and also leaders who strongly rejected Hellenism as pagan.   Europe would not have progressed as it did, if it had not been for the later chruch embracing Greek and Roman classics and Scholasticism that spread this knowledge, leading to the Age of Reason and Age of Enlightenment, and our Statue of Liberty who holds a book for literacy and a torch for enligntenment. 
 
7.  All the God of Abraham religions claim God has favorites and that this God commands them to kill people in fights for land and to manage the problem of fighting evil, usually justifying the fight for land, by claiming the people who need to be removed are sinners and evil Godless people. 
 
8.  Christianity and Islam both say the Jews blew it with God. 
 
9.  Protestants and Muslims say the Catholic church distorted the revealed word and used religion to get money from people. 
 
10.  Hebrew is a sematic language with the same peculiarities as Arabic, and there is not absolute agreement about the correctness of any holy book, other than all the different groups like to believe their holy book is the best.   This includes the Mormons who give us a very interesting holy book about a lost tribe in south America, and some rather curious explanations of God's truth.   Oh, we might also mention the Bahi' because they also claim to have a better, up dated knowledge of God's truth.  A couple of women started new Protestant faiths, by writing their God inspired new truths, such as Christian Science and the Seventh Day adventist.   And didn't a Mongolian leader in India have some success at blending Hinduism, Islam and Christianity for awhile?  But now this is getting off topic, except that there is agreement the Jews had God's truth and that the the Torah is not the last word on God's truth, and the bible is not the last word on God's truth, and the last days will come with terrible suffering.  
 
How are doing so far?      


Edited by Athena - 11-Nov-2010 at 16:37
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Posts: 403 		  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2010 at 17:07
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I believe the problem is just Islam, not Iran, Saddam, ... in the current situation the best thing is that Islamic countries are kept in the lowest level of the power, a powerful Islamic country will be a threat to the whole world, unfortunately Obama doesn't work good at all, as you see Islamic regime of Iran is causing problem and insecurity everywhere, it sounds ridiculous to say that Iran with help of Venezuela is building a canal between Nicaragua and Costa Rica to be rival of Panama canal, just because Panama is a country with a pro-American orientation.
 
It was once considered in the US best interest to build that canal, because the Panama canal is out dated and can not adequately manage the flow of traffic.  In fact  past President Carter sold the Panana canal to China.  Okay, there are good reasons for building that new canal and here is a 1958 explanation of them.
 
 
Now you might have a problem with OPEC nations being in control of the canal instead of the US.  Let us not forget OPEC was formed for good reasons that are in the best interest of OPEC countries but the US, who has made enemies of these nations.  Whatever, this is not a religious issue but a political issue.  You are grabbing a straws with this argument.   I don't think many Nicaraguaians are Muslims.  I think OPEC countries realized they were being ripe off and united.  They got smart, and are becoming the business people they need to be for the good of their own nations.   Yes, some of these countries are predominately Muslim, hum, and the problem is? 
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Posts: 589 		  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2010 at 20:27
There is another interesting phenomenon in Middle East. Having the boogeymen seems to serve well our right wing politicians. Our right wing politicians seem to play the same role for jihadists. What a beautiful match made in hell (if such thing existed).

Edited by cavalry4ever - 11-Nov-2010 at 20:29
"Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul."
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2010 at 03:28
The only thing which certainly doesn't matter for the Islamic regime of Iran is the good of the Iranian nation, in fact they already know that the majority of Iranians are their main enemy, in the next month they wll cut the subsidy completely and want to give the money to just those ones who support them, it means we will have to pay at least ten times more for bread, petrol, electricity, water and all other things but nothing will be change in our income.
 
The only important thing for this regime is Islam and itself, they have two major enemies: USA and Israel, most of our oil income goes directly to the neighbor of these countries and the rest of it is spent in the country for building nuclear weapons, I think it is clear what they want to do, they are not like Shah who really loved the nation, if they see that they are losing their power then they will destroy the whole world and the first one will be Iran, in fact they believe that they should do it one day and kill all unbelievers for the appearance of Al Mahdy!


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 12-Nov-2010 at 03:32
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2010 at 12:12
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I believe the problem is just Islam, not Iran, Saddam, ...


The problem is the Iranian people and Iranian culture itself. You are a very good example of everything that is wrong with Iranian culture: blame all your deficiencies on someone else. NO, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, AND THE OTHER 69.999 MILLION OTHER IRANIANS.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


in the current situation the best thing is that Islamic countries are kept in the lowest level of the power, a powerful Islamic country will be a threat to the whole world,


Such as Turkey? Turkey is a powerful Islamic country. What about Pakistan, they have nukes? They are a powerful Islamic country as well.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


 unfortunately Obama doesn't work good at all,


How? What do you know about what Obama is doing?

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


 as you see Islamic regime of Iran is causing problem and insecurity everywhere, it sounds ridiculous to say that Iran with help of Venezuela is building a canal between Nicaragua and Costa Rica to be rival of Panama canal, just because Panama is a country with a pro-American orientation.


All countries do this, not just Iran. Every country in the world does things which are in their best interests. China "causes problems and insecurity everywhere" as does the United States, England, France, Russia, etc...

You are talking non-sense.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2010 at 19:10
I was under the feeling that the Panama Canal was at present being expanded with wider and longer locks, so it could accept the large cargo and passenger ships currently left out?

Just why would someone compete with it? They would in essence be competing with China?
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2010 at 06:59

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

The problem is the Iranian people and Iranian culture itself. You are a very good example of everything that is wrong with Iranian culture: blame all your deficiencies on someone else. NO, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, AND THE OTHER 69.999 MILLION OTHER IRANIANS.

Among all Muslims in the world, Iranians are certainly the most tolerant one and this is just because their pre-Islamic culture.

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

Such as Turkey? Turkey is a powerful Islamic country. What about Pakistan, they have nukes? They are a powerful Islamic country as well.

Turkey and Pakistan are the center of some of the most dangerous Islamic terrorist groups in the world, such as IHH and SSP, you have probably heard about terrorist attacks in these countries?

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

How? What do you know about what Obama is doing?

I know that he has done nothing against terrorists.

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

All countries do this, not just Iran. Every country in the world does things which are in their best interests. China "causes problems and insecurity everywhere" as does the United States, England, France, Russia, etc...

The difference is that those countries do this for their nations but Iran does this against the Iranian nation.

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

You are talking non-sense.

Stay at the mosque to hear good things.
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2010 at 13:01
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Among all Muslims in the world, Iranians are certainly the most tolerant one and this is just because their pre-Islamic culture.


You are a typical Iranian, blaming everything wrong on others while still insisting about the glory and righteousness of your own culture.

NO. THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE IRANIAN PEOPLE AND IRANIAN CULTURE, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Until Iranians realize this nothing will ever change.

Iran and Iranians are amongst the most intolerant in the world.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Turkey and Pakistan are the center of some of the most dangerous Islamic terrorist groups in the world, such as IHH and SSP, you have probably heard about terrorist attacks in these countries?

But their governments are examples of two powerful Islamic countries which DO NOT cause international problems for the most part, and certainly not for Islamic reasons. This clearly contradicts your previous comment.

Terrorists groups exist in many nations.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I know that he has done nothing against terrorists.

Obama is continuing the exact same policies of George Bush regarding terrorism, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. Obama has continued bombings in Yemen and Pakistan, sent more troops to Afghanistan, etc...

Cyrus, brush up on your American politics. Wink

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

The difference is that those countries do this for their nations but Iran does this against the Iranian nation.


Yes, Its an Iranian problem. Its a problem within Iranian culture and Iran, it has nothing to do with Islam.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Stay at the mosque to hear good things.



I dont go to mosque and never will.
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Posts: 326 		  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2010 at 13:37
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba


You are a typical Iranian, blaming everything wrong on others while still insisting about the glory and righteousness of your own culture.


 
TheGreatSimba, I would like to know which is your native country and what is your ethnic group. To love your country and to be proud of it`s culture is one of the purest feeling in the world. These people are responsible, constructive and tolerant to others. The problems in the world come not from patriots, but from internationalists/globalists like Communists who killed millions. Same to the Islam. Many times behind good words and slogans are hiding bad intentions.


Edited by Kanas_Krumesis - 13-Nov-2010 at 13:43
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I am Iranian-Persian. Believe me, the problems with Iran are a result of the Iranian mentality. Cyrus is the prime example.

Iranians, for example, love to blame others for everything, Iranians love making excuses, and Iranians rarely ever take responsibility for anything. Its always "someone elses fault", its always either the "Arabs or Afghans" that are the source of all the misery....

Until Iranians take responsibility for their actions, and stop making excuses and actually start working to make things better, nothing will change.

Remember, it was IRANIANS themselves (Iranians love to blame the revolution on "Americans" or the "British" and say things like "khomeini wasnt even Iranian, he was Indian") who brought this regime into power and they themselves are to blame for why it is still in power.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 13-Nov-2010 at 14:06
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What is the responsibility of ordinary Iranian people to Islamist brutality? I don`t know about any Iranian-suicide bomber in spanish, french or british metro. May be you will help me with some info.
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Originally posted by Kanas_Krumesis

What is the responsibility of ordinary Iranian people to Islamist brutality? I don`t know about any Iranian-suicide bomber in spanish, french or british metro. May be you will help me with some info.


Like Cyrus said, Iranian terrorize their own people.

Have you ever been to Iran? Believe me, Iranians have many cultural deficiencies. I have been so disgusted by my travels in Iran that, if I didnt have family there, I would probably never go back until things changed significantly.




Edited by TheGreatSimba - 13-Nov-2010 at 14:17
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Posts: 403 		  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2010 at 16:49
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

The problem is the Iranian people and Iranian culture itself. You are a very good example of everything that is wrong with Iranian culture: blame all your deficiencies on someone else. NO, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, AND THE OTHER 69.999 MILLION OTHER IRANIANS.

Among all Muslims in the world, Iranians are certainly the most tolerant one and this is just because their pre-Islamic culture.

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

Such as Turkey? Turkey is a powerful Islamic country. What about Pakistan, they have nukes? They are a powerful Islamic country as well.

Turkey and Pakistan are the center of some of the most dangerous Islamic terrorist groups in the world, such as IHH and SSP, you have probably heard about terrorist attacks in these countries?

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

How? What do you know about what Obama is doing?

I know that he has done nothing against terrorists.

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

All countries do this, not just Iran. Every country in the world does things which are in their best interests. China "causes problems and insecurity everywhere" as does the United States, England, France, Russia, etc...

The difference is that those countries do this for their nations but Iran does this against the Iranian nation.

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

You are talking non-sense.

Stay at the mosque to hear good things.

 
I was in an Iranian discussion group several years ago, and gave up because these men were so block headed in incapable of resolving their differences.  It seem reasonable to me to say Iranians have a culture that makes it difficult to resolve problems.   It seems very important for them to be macho, as opposed to being Stoic and rational.  This is an important cultural difference, that we may not realize because we are no longer aware of our cultural roots.  However, some of our people are quite insistant that Obama act like a bully, and do not realize real strength is not acting like a bully. 
 
In away the difference is like being a small, yipee dog or a large silent dog.  As Obama said, the power of the US is so great, we don't need to behave like those who are not secure with their  strength.  In comparison Iran and others do not have the strength we have, and would be ignored if they didn't act up.  So to a degree cultural behavior depends on a nations percieved strength.  Democracy demands discussion and I sure don't see the actions of Bush as the actions of someone secure in his strength, and to me Obama acts like someone who is secure with his strength and the power of our nation.   I think Bush's behavior caused us a lot of trouble, pushing small nations to become nuclear nations, instead of moving them engage with us in a peaceful way.
 
It is a huge improvement to see threatending Muslim groups named.  This is equal to talking of the activity of the KKK, instead of attributing the activity of the KKK to all Christians.
 
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2010 at 17:10

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

You are a typical Iranian, blaming everything wrong on others while still insisting about the glory and righteousness of your own culture.

I blame no one, I have said several times in this thread that the problem is just Islam, not Iranians, Arabs, Americans, Turks and etc. That is relgion of violence, the real followers of this religion, without considering their ethnicity, are the most dangerous people, they stone to death their own mothers and sisters, they have learnt in their holy book that it is their duty to kill unbelievers, even they themselves are killed. It is our good luck that the most extremist ones are ruling Iran, otherwise the situation of Iran wouldn't be better than neighbour countries, about the Islamic terrorist attacks.
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2010 at 17:19
You are blaming others, you're blaming Islam for Irans problems and you have done so frequently. ISLAM IS NOT THE PROBLEM ITS THE MENTALITY OF THE PEOPLE THAT IS THE PROBLEM, THE PROBLEM IS IRANIANS THEMSELVES.

Cyrus, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Its very evident by your posts that you are in fact the type of Iranian that is holding our country back. What do you propose to do, kill all Muslims? Then you are no better then "them".


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 13-Nov-2010 at 17:23
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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