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Athena View Drop Down
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Posts: 403 		  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why Muslims are a dangerous people?!
    Posted: 24-Nov-2010 at 16:07
Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by Athena

Excuse me, Eaglecap, but it is my intent to publish a book titled  "The Golden Rule- Democracy, God and Morals Without Religion", and I do not take kindly to you addressing me with "You forget the origins and history of America".    I am still in the reseach stage and thanks to this thread, I now know I must include Zoroastrianism, which strongly influenced Judism and therefore, Christianity and Islam. 
 

The history of democracy begins with Athens, not the USA.   The schlasticism of the Catholic church, that educated Europe with Greek and Roman classics, is vital to our history.   Literate meant literate in Greek and Roman classics, and this is the foundation of our culture especially in the USA where the priority purpose  of education was good citenship and modeled after Athens education for well rounded individual growth.  Had it not been for this 'pagan' education, the US might not be any better than Islamic countries, because the holy books were written when kings and slaves were assumed, and stoning people was accepted.   Have you forgotten Christian history, the witch hunts, inquistion and crusades?   Germany was the Holy Roman Empire and spread Christian with the sword.  Christian nations have done terrible things to Jews, matching what Muslims are doing to preotect their religious hold. 

 

Christian evanglist like Billy Graham and Pat Robertson are not better than Bin Laden and other Muslims who encourage acts of war.   War is good for religion and religion is good for war.  The only real difference is the ability to make war.  The USA can demolish a major city in a matter of hours, and they call this the "Power and Glory".   The Muslim "terrorist" are pretty limited to using their own bodies to delieve bombs.  Both sides are claiming to be God's chosen people and that they are doing the will of God.    I challenge both sides to be the most pious and moral, and to be non violent.  Then neither can justify a war againt the other. 


After the Holidays I will get back to this but you really, no offense, seem to lack focus and you seem to go all over the historic map. I was referring to American history and not ancient Greek or Zoastrian. You should also check out the influence of the Iroquois on our constitution, you might be surprised. If you look at current events it is not Christians who are strapping bombs onto themselves but I take it you are a liberal. What is your education level- BA, MA or higher? I wish you success with your new book!!

Happy thanks giving!
 
No I am not at all suprised about the Iroguois influence on our federation of soveriegn states, but I am rather distressed by our consolidation of power in a federal government.  If the economies of the US and Europe continue to fall, we might consider returning  to a federation of soveriegn states.
 
Now that you mention the Iroguios, how different were native tribes from say, Afghanstan tribes? 
 
Laugh, I only have B.S. degree.   I consider to a large degree, universities are creating educated ignorance, because like a Muslim, the product of this education has a narrowed understanding of reality and excessive belief in the importance of this institutional learning. 


Edited by Athena - 24-Nov-2010 at 18:55
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2010 at 17:44
I have Iroguios ancestry on my father's side.

Athena you might enjoy this article I wrote: (it is an interview I did via email)

AIFD: Friends of America and Freedom
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/10/aifd-friends-of-america-and-freedom.html
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Posts: 403 		  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2010 at 00:26
Eaglecap, I am not understanding a distinct difference between Muslims and Christians.  I gather there is a distinct difference between  Islamic state and secular constitutional republic, but I don't have a clue what the differences are and have started a thread for you and Cyrus to to explain the problem of the political differnece that does matter.  In the meantime-
 
Tonight I heard a news account of how a Muslim family in the UK has lost a son to a Muslim terrorist group.  The family reported a problem to the police and the police finally told the young man he had to turn in his pass port in 48 hours.  Evidently when push came to shove, the terrorist group that recurited him, flew him out of the UK.   The family is devastated.  Listening to the story, it sounded  as though this young man was recruited much as drug uses  recruit their friends into being drug users.  In fact, they may of have hooked the young man on drugs.  Moving into the drug world is not just about doing drugs, it is also about opposing parents, and school and work requirements.  It is an anti social sub culture.   I gather there is a Muslim anti social subculture in many countries.   I may not be using the right words, but I would bet there is a psychological relationship going on in the recruitment of terrorist or the recruitment of drug users.  Cults can do the same thing,  In fact , if it is a fringe Christian group doing the recruiting we call them cults.  Does any one remember the cults that commited mass suicide?  There are commonalities here.  We have vulnerable young people who are recruited into terrorist groups, cults and drug addiction, or the military.  Because we approve of this group and not that one, doesn't make what is happening different.  
 
How about using a common langauge and calling terrorist Muslim groups, cults?  The actions of cults are often psychologically dangerous.  Anyone remember David's compound in Waco, Texas?  This Christian cult was armed for war.  I don't think they would have become violent, but the mentality was not so different from the Muslim justification for war.  They were armed to protect themselves from the USA that did destroy them. 


Edited by Athena - 28-Nov-2010 at 09:56
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2010 at 14:48
Ditto's to Athena!

A very to the point posting!

Thanks,

http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 403 		  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2010 at 17:36
Well thank you Opuslola.  Can you expand on what you found agreeable?
 
Here is a fair explanation of how cults recruit people.
 
 
If we think of suicide bombers as cult members fulfilling what they believe is their God given mission, than I believe we have a better understanding of why these people are dangerous.  Any religion can do.  This is not limited to Muslims, but Muslims would be extremely vulnerable to the psychology used to recruit members.   Especially if their family is immigrants and they do not have well established social ties in the new community.  Or say, someone in their family was killed by an act of war, or they feel trapped on a reservation, separated from the land that once meant having the good life. 
 
I think answering the question posed by this thread, should be approuched with a scientific point of view, with the intent of understanding cause and effect.  Islam itself does not make people a danger.  However, it can make especially young males vulnerable to tragedy.   And if we want to point our fingers and criticize some Muslims who encourage this tragic behavior, perhapes we should remember the Spartans, whose mothers told them it was better to come home carried on their sheild than to come home a coward.   Some Muslims cultures are not that far from the warroir cultures of old.   But here it is the culture, not the religion.   The Qur'an has many words of peace, and the Muslims I have known have been people of peace.   While the old testament God of the Christian bible is a jealous, revengeful, fearsome and punshing war God.  Not my idea of a good role model for men, but a God excellent for war .  
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2010 at 16:37
American Muslim organization applauds FBI for actions in Portland, OR

This is a clear examples of the good and honest Muslims living amongst us.

http://www.aifdemocracy.org/news.php?id=6359

This is for Cyrus as well.
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Posts: 403 		  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2010 at 21:54
Originally posted by eaglecap

American Muslim organization applauds FBI for actions in Portland, OR

This is a clear examples of the good and honest Muslims living amongst us.

http://www.aifdemocracy.org/news.php?id=6359

This is for Cyrus as well.
 
I don't believe there is a big difference between this young Muslim and the young man who held his classmates in a room with a gun, and then shot himself. 
 
I don't know about the rest of you, but I have dealt with some pretty bazzar thoughts in my life time, especially when I was young.  I assume many people have bazzar thoughts, and that most of these people have a good system of dealing with them, so they do not act on the thoughts.  Isn't this called impulse control?  However, thinking of killing someone is at least common enough for people to make jokes about killing their spouse or mother in law.  Unfortunately, not everyone has a good system for dealing with these throughts, and the result is they act on the thought. I think the media contributes to the problem. 
 
We do not report the religion of everyone who does a crime.  It seems only if the crimial is a Muslim is the religion reported.  This reminds me of when the Irish were persecuted, or the Chinese, or the Japanese or Jews.  At different times in our history these groups have been treated as Muslims are being treated today.  If a criminals religion is important, perhaps every criminals religon should be reported? 
 
The follow up story is of a man who set fire to the mosque.  His religion was not mentioned.  Why not?  Might it be because we see the acts of a Christian or an atheist  differently than the acts of Muslim?   If it is a Christian or atheist who commits a crime, they are not outsiders causing a problem, right?  But a Muslim isn't one of us, right?  How intelligent is this?   Remember the persecution of the Irish, Chinese, Japanese and Jews. 


Edited by Athena - 02-Dec-2010 at 00:58
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Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2010 at 22:23
I have to say some thing here, while  most muslims are not violent no doubt,  there are certian countries like pakistan, afghanistan, saudi, iran that have large number of dangerous people/oppressive people, so in a way this thread is correct. All of us with sane minds should always speak against these people and never ever give them power. All of us should unite against extremism of any kind in any religion and society.

Edited by balochii - 06-Dec-2010 at 22:25
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Posts: 589 		  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2010 at 11:40
Originally posted by balochii

I have to say some thing here, while  most muslims are not violent no doubt,  there are certian countries like pakistan, afghanistan, saudi, iran that have large number of dangerous people/oppressive people, so in a way this thread is correct. All of us with sane minds should always speak against these people and never ever give them power. All of us should unite against extremism of any kind in any religion and society.

This is well said. It applies to all religions. People have to unite to fight ignorance and religious zealotry. There are positive expressions of religion and also demented ones. We have to make sure demented ones do not prevail. 
As someone once said, the true test of a religion is in what it does to its followers.
"Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul."
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2010 at 15:09
Originally posted by Athena

Eaglecap, I am not understanding a distinct difference between Muslims and Christians.  I gather there is a distinct difference between  Islamic state and secular constitutional republic, but I don't have a clue what the differences are and have started a thread for you and Cyrus to to explain the problem of the political differnece that does matter.  In the meantime-

 



That is good you understand the difference between a constitutional Republic and an Islamic state based on Sharia law. Read up on Sharia law and then you will see the difference. Our society is based on individual freedom and Sharia law is not. Our system is far from perfect but which you think offers more individual freedom and the pursuit of happiness.

Tonight I heard a news account of how a Muslim family in the UK has lost a son to a Muslim terrorist group.  The family reported a problem to the police and the police finally told the young man he had to turn in his pass port in 48 hours.  Evidently when push came to shove, the terrorist group that recurited him, flew him out of the UK.   The family is devastated.  Listening to the story, it sounded  as though this young man was recruited much as drug uses  recruit their friends into being drug users.  In fact, they may of have hooked the young man on drugs.  Moving into the drug world is not just about doing drugs, it is also about opposing parents, and school and work requirements.  It is an anti social sub culture.   I gather there is a Muslim anti social subculture in many countries.   I may not be using the right words, but I would bet there is a psychological relationship going on in the recruitment of terrorist or the recruitment of drug users.  Cults can do the same thing,  In fact , if it is a fringe Christian group doing the recruiting we call them cults.  Does any one remember the cults that commited mass suicide?  There are commonalities here.  We have vulnerable young people who are recruited into terrorist groups, cults and drug addiction, or the military.  Because we approve of this group and not that one, doesn't make what is happening different.  

 

How about using a common langauge and calling terrorist Muslim groups, cults?  The actions of cults are often psychologically dangerous.  Anyone remember David's compound in Waco, Texas?  This Christian cult was armed for war.  I don't think they would have become violent, but the mentality was not so different from the Muslim justification for war.  They were armed to protect themselves from the USA that did destroy them. 



I agree that cults use brain washing techniques. It is Jim Jones that you are thinking of and yes they were terrible. Waco was also bad but if the government had not of pushed them then it would have played out different. I also blame the U.S. government in being too aggressive in their actions, Ruby Ridge also. All these groups were paranoid that the government was out to get that but they were not out for world conquest like another religion. I don't justify them in anyway but can you justify the government's actions. I think they could have handled it better. Jim Jones was also paranoid that the U.S. government was out to destroy them, us against them. This is why his members drank the poisoned cool aid or were shot. In principle I find no difference between Islam and these cults because murder is murder and cannot be justified. Unlike the above mentioned cults the ultimate goal of the Jihadist is world dominance. Christians want to obtain this by the preaching of the Gospel and so do Muslims but they also want to use the sword as well if preaching does not work. Before the Arab siege of Constantinople, in the 7th c. AD, the Muslim Arabs gave the Romans the opportunity to convert to Islam. One of many examples in history but I also wonder how much brain washing is done by Communist groups or even NAZI groups.
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2010 at 23:09
Dear "----Duke!"

Thanks for your responses, but you most oft do not offer anything else for one to consider!

Have you even read this very thread from the begining?

If not, you should, and notice the dates of the postings!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2010 at 23:16
As regards anything issuing from the "Peoples Republic of Portland", I am at a complete idiot!

This city and most of its citizens are as far from what we believe where I live, as we are from Mongolia, or Tashkent, or Moscow, or even Peking? Yes, I am worldly enough to recognize that this is just another city to re-name!, and the "Politicaly Corrrect" would rather us use the name that they have decided is best!

But, I just do like my "Duck" cooked in any other style!
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Funny you should use that expression.  I just cooked the dukes duck.           or was it, whatever.Big smile
 
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Posts: 403 		  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2010 at 12:48
Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by Athena

Eaglecap, I am not understanding a distinct difference between Muslims and Christians.  I gather there is a distinct difference between  Islamic state and secular constitutional republic, but I don't have a clue what the differences are and have started a thread for you and Cyrus to to explain the problem of the political difference that does matter.  In the meantime-

 



That is good you understand the difference between a constitutional Republic and an Islamic state based on Sharia law. Read up on Sharia law and then you will see the difference. Our society is based on individual freedom and Sharia law is not. Our system is far from perfect but which you think offers more individual freedom and the pursuit of happiness.

Tonight I heard a news account of how a Muslim family in the UK has lost a son to a Muslim terrorist group.  The family reported a problem to the police and the police finally told the young man he had to turn in his pass port in 48 hours.  Evidently when push came to shove, the terrorist group that recruited him, flew him out of the UK.   The family is devastated.  Listening to the story, it sounded  as though this young man was recruited much as drug uses  recruit their friends into being drug users.  In fact, they may of have hooked the young man on drugs.  Moving into the drug world is not just about doing drugs, it is also about opposing parents, and school and work requirements.  It is an anti social sub culture.   I gather there is a Muslim anti social subculture in many countries.   I may not be using the right words, but I would bet there is a psychological relationship going on in the recruitment of terrorist or the recruitment of drug users.  Cults can do the same thing,  In fact , if it is a fringe Christian group doing the recruiting we call them cults.  Does any one remember the cults that committed mass suicide?  There are commonalities here.  We have vulnerable young people who are recruited into terrorist groups, cults and drug addiction, or the military.  Because we approve of this group and not that one, doesn't make what is happening different.  

 

How about using a common language and calling terrorist Muslim groups, cults?  The actions of cults are often psychologically dangerous.  Anyone remember David's compound in Waco, Texas?  This Christian cult was armed for war.  I don't think they would have become violent, but the mentality was not so different from the Muslim justification for war.  They were armed to protect themselves from the USA that did destroy them. 



I agree that cults use brain washing techniques. It is Jim Jones that you are thinking of and yes they were terrible. Waco was also bad but if the government had not of pushed them then it would have played out different. I also blame the U.S. government in being too aggressive in their actions, Ruby Ridge also. All these groups were paranoid that the government was out to get that but they were not out for world conquest like another religion. I don't justify them in anyway but can you justify the government's actions. I think they could have handled it better. Jim Jones was also paranoid that the U.S. government was out to destroy them, us against them. This is why his members drank the poisoned cool aid or were shot. In principle I find no difference between Islam and these cults because murder is murder and cannot be justified. Unlike the above mentioned cults the ultimate goal of the Jihadist is world dominance. Christians want to obtain this by the preaching of the Gospel and so do Muslims but they also want to use the sword as well if preaching does not work. Before the Arab siege of Constantinople, in the 7th c. AD, the Muslim Arabs gave the Romans the opportunity to convert to Islam. One of many examples in history but I also wonder how much brain washing is done by Communist groups or even NAZI groups.
 
You have mixed apples and bananas, and we could easily go way off topic!  The US was way out of line in its use of military force against citizens.  But that is so off topic.
 
Talking about cults however, could be very productive.  I have picked up the idea that Muslims are suffering from too much emphasis on obedience.  Christians also stressed obedience, especially when kings ruled, and Christianity taught kings were chosen by God.  Martin Luther taught obedience and that some are born to be masters and others to serve the masters. 
 
Buddhism also is excessively passive to me.  Our American culture and the Irish and Scott's and perhaps others, are not going to passively comply.  It is a question of to whom does God give his authority?  It is a question of liberty to decide for ourselves right from wrong.  But with this liberty and authority, comes the responsibility of self education and being accountable.   We are not doing a good job of education for democracy.   
 
A cult member is someone who allows someone else to do his thinking for him.  Preaching and preaching and preaching obedience, instead of individual responsibility, could lead to religious cult behaviors that are not desirable.   It could lead everyone committing mass suicide or an individual being a suicide bomber.    Any of us can get caught up in a life drama, and God help us if at the moment we don't realize we have an independent choice and responsibility.  
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2010 at 12:35
Muslim terrorists work again, about 40 people were killed by one of them in Chabahar, the bomber killed himself to go to the paradise as soon as possible, I think he will be in the best place in the paradise because he killed some kids and a pregnant woman!
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2011 at 17:31
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Muslim terrorists work again, about 40 people were killed by one of them in Chabahar, the bomber killed himself to go to the paradise as soon as possible, I think he will be in the best place in the paradise because he killed some kids and a pregnant woman!


Cyrus I wanted you to see these and we know this is not about all Muslims but Islam is involved.

Charles Jacobs Reports from Sudan - Juba - Jan. 7, 2011.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0f1YD3lEOw

and


Charles Jacobs Reports from Sudan - Zurich-Nairobi-Juba - Jan. 5, 2011.wmv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31uvdzswW3Y
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Islam is extremely aggressive religion not only towards living human beings who have a different outlook, but also towards world cultural heritage. Islamist leaders always wanted to erase what is not according to the Quran. Closest in spirit to the ideology of Islam is Fascism. Fascists also wanted to make the people totally physically and mentally subordinate. To destroyed in all means the "low level culture". We remember about Hitler's bonfires of books. Turkish "knights of Quran" have done their work not only with sword and torch, but also with building tools. In fact rather primitive and without any imagination.
Just as it is unwilling by the prophet. 
If you go to Turkish occupied city of Famagusta in Cyprus, you will see the most strange "mosque" in the world. Of course this is not a true mosque, but defiled Christian church. This Gothic cathedral is called  Saint Nicolas and was build in 1328 by French which ruled Cyprus at this time. This monument is a copy of Reims Cathedral in France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reims_Cathedral), where they were crowned French kings. That`s why the building has been dubbed "The Reims of Cyprus". How it looks today:
 
 
Entrance of the "mosque"
 
Inside the "mosque"
 
 
 


Edited by Kanas_Krumesis - 12-Jan-2011 at 13:46
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Posts: 403 		  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2011 at 12:09
Kanas, I need to repeat, Christians did the same thing. They destroyed libraries in Egypt and Aztec libraries, and surely you remember the terrible things done to control thinking and wipe out cultures.  The destruction of native American cultures is well recorded.   Well meaning Christians took native American children from their parents and punished them if they so much as spoke their native language.   This is a result of revelation religion, and believing there is a God who have us know his will through religious authority.  The more I deal with this reality on the Internet, more I think we really need to oppose such religious notions, not just oppose Islam, but Christianity and Judaism as well.  But then by my name you can see I am Hellenist and Hellenist opposed the religion when there was only Judaism advancing the problem.  If we single out just one of the God of Abraham religions we inadvertently support the other two and I don't think this is a good thing.
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I need to repeat too, as I replied to Kanas_Krumesis in another thread, Christian bigotry is worse than Islamic, Muslims changed a relgious building to another relgious building but Armenian Christians changed the great mosque of Agdam in Nagorno-Karabakh to:
 
 
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2011 at 16:02
Originally posted by Athena

Kanas, I need to repeat, Christians did the same thing. They destroyed libraries in Egypt and Aztec libraries, and surely you remember the terrible things done to control thinking and wipe out cultures.  The destruction of native American cultures is well recorded.   Well meaning Christians took native American children from their parents and punished them if they so much as spoke their native language.   This is a result of revelation religion, and believing there is a God who have us know his will through religious authority.  The more I deal with this reality on the Internet, more I think we really need to oppose such religious notions, not just oppose Islam, but Christianity and Judaism as well.  But then by my name you can see I am Hellenist and Hellenist opposed the religion when there was only Judaism advancing the problem.  If we single out just one of the God of Abraham religions we inadvertently support the other two and I don't think this is a good thing.


Athena the library of Alexandria was first burned by the Romans, who were pagans. I will come back and address this more when I have some time this week but you really seem like an apologist for Islam. Look at the persecution of the Coptic Christians today and the Assyrian Christiams. Also read up on the fate of Christians in Timar and also the fate of truly moderate Muslims in Alergia. I am not sure what you mean by a Hellenist. I believe in Greek culture and being half Greek I consider myself a Hellene but what make you a Hellenist? Is it the love of Greek culture, both ancient and modern? Greek religion? Architecture? History? Religion? I love them all!!!

But then by my name you can see I am Hellenist and Hellenist opposed the religion when there was only Judaism advancing the problem.
I wonder if this would make you Jewishophobic? I am not sure what you mean here so please clarify it.

Athena can you find something equal to this by Christians in this world TODAY!


Ethiopian Muslims Warn Christians to Convert, Leave City or Face Death

http://www.persecution.org/2011/01/25/ethiopian-muslims-warn-christians-to-convert-leave-city-or-face-death/

Edited by eaglecap - 26-Jan-2011 at 13:43
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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