[help me] the administration hierarchy

Can someone help me with the administration hierarchy in the medieval England (early Medieval, around the age of Norman Invasion to Britannia)??? I'm very confuse about this matter because it is very different than our today administration hierarchy

From what I understand, in Medieval England, the King ruled over all, and the baron's came in second. The rest are just titles. For example, a baron could be given the title of duke. Get it? Baron's were noblemen, meaning they were the rich and powerful, and so they were given titles, such as Duke, or Earl. But obviously, these different titles came with different levels of prestige.

Also, during times of war, when the King was away, he would designate someone to watch over his kingdom, power did not simply go to the person at the next highest level of hierarchy (although that person was usually someone the king appointed anyway, so it would most likely be him...)

I'm not an expert, I could be wrong here.




Edited by TheGreatSimba - 14-Mar-2010 at 13:14

Brain sucker, and others, can you consider that the word "Count" merely means or meant, "to count?"

With some extension these titles were originally given to those persons who were responsible for "counting" or "measuring", or "weighing", those goods either legally "exported" or "imported" into a kingdom, and as such, today they would be the "managers" of "Customs", etc.!

Originally posted by opuslola Brain sucker, and others, can you consider that the word "Count" merely means or meant, "to count?" With some extension these titles were originally given to those persons who were responsible for "counting" or "measuring", or "weighing", those goods either legally "exported" or "imported" into a kingdom, and as such, today they would be the "managers" of "Customs", etc.!

Maybe I should have explained, that the real reason for such titles, etc., was to explain who was to control "taxation!" Customs duties, etc., were the earliest "taxes1", and the "Count" or "counter" was the official who was in charge of the "taxation" whithin his territory or jurisdiction!

Perhaps, this is now clear?

Regards,

Perhaps my answer(s)! above, might have been better taken, if I had used the word "Merovingian", instead of Carolingian? Then maybe one of you might well have knowledge of the term "major domo?" But, perhaps not?

http://www.panoccitania.com/history.html

From the above site you can read, amongst numerous other interesting things, the following;

"The Merovingians are also responsible for the origin of feudalism, when they let their dukes reign in stead of their kings. The Languedoc-Roussillon was from that moment on reigned by feudal lords for many centuries. These are the so called Lords of the Languedoc, who would later protect the Cathars against the catholic crusades. The soldiers who maintained the order were also called Knights for the first time in history.

Towards the 7th century, the Merovingian kings had little power and were more symbolic figures. They left the state to the rule of major domos (stewards). The position of Major Domo became hereditary in Carolingian times. The Carolingians dethroned the Merovingians in 751, when Pepin the Short was joined by Frankish noblemen and they no longer recognised their king Childeric III."

And, just to prove that my "Carolingian" reference was not without some "weight", there are also these words;

"THE CAROLINIANS
(751 tot 987)
Pepin II of Herstal (635 or 640 - 16th December 714) was major domo of Austrasia, Neustria and Burgundy (Burgundy from 680 to 714) and eventually he would gain more and more power in the Frankish realm. The Merovingian king Theuderic III tried to fire him from his post as major domo, but was beaten in Tertry in 687. Pepin then became the real leader of Austrasia and kept the other Frankish kingdoms under his control. His children would also be major domo, but his grandson, Pepin the Short, would become king in 751.

Charles Martel (23rd August 676 - 22nd October 741) was major domo in the Frankish realm. He was also born in Herstal in today's Wallonia (Belgium). Charles was the bastard son of Pepin II and his concubine Apaida. Charles Martel is most famous for his victory at the Battle of Poitiers in 732, which is seen as the 'rescue of Europe from the Arabs'. Martels Frankish army would beat an Arab army which tried to spread the islam. Although the Arabs would not be able to conquer all of Europe, they did succeed in occupying the greater part of Southern France and Iberia (Spain and Portugal). Although it would take two more generations before the Arabs were forced back over the Pyrenees, this victory would change the opportunity of the Arabs to the benefit of the Franks, and it would also lead to the unification of the Frankish realm under Charles Martel."


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/majordomo

Maybe "chief of the house", but it also might well be translated as "Lord of the Manor?", or "Lord (Master)of the Palace", etc.?

You might even pay attention to the mention of "salt?", and "bees!"

Regards,


Edited by opuslola - 23-Mar-2010 at 13:12

Nephilum! If you would but try to actually write in some correct style of English, that is use Caps, and other punctuation that some one of learning might respect, then you might well receive the same in kind?

Otherwise, you ask to speak to my hand! Which, in your own words might well "seem to have a viable grip of the period!"

Please try it again in educated English?

Regards,

Nephilum! I am indeed sorry if I insulted you, but some decorum needs to be observed. What if every thing you wrote was in that new code used by young people while texting?

I would also object to "Pig Latin!" Laugh! But, I do not object to the English used by persons who do not have the command of the language that you have! English spelling and other rules are very demanding, and problems with posts whereby English is a second or third, etc., language is of no problem!

I certainly do not have the command of the language that I wish! And I am sure it also annoys some people somewhere!

Oh!   And I am glad that you did not mention a bodily orifice of my own, in which I might well place my penis! Laugh!

However, in regards to your question.

I will have to get back to you and see if I might be able to provide some answer that you have not obtained in other places!

Regards,

Dear Nephilum, if you or any of your friends, etc., have full access to a college library, then you can receive for free the following item from JSTOR; http://www.jstor.org/pss/1838858

That might have some information related to your query?

Another possible source that might have to be treated with some caution;

http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/post/

It seems that monks and monastaries as well as "bards" were the method of tranmission of ideas and rules! See; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_century

"Early 6th century – Glendalough monastery, Wicklow Ireland founded by St. Kevin. Many similar foundations in Ireland and Wales."

http://www.britannia.com/wales/lit/lit1.html

"Surviving Welsh language poems, part of the heroic tradition, date all the way back to the late sixth century AD, making them part of the oldest attested vernacular in Europe. Two poets who continued what seems to have been an old Celtic bardic tradition of elaborate sound patterns and social ideals were Taliesin and Aneirin. Both these poets lived in northwestern Britain (Strathclyde) during the time of the Anglo-Saxon invasions. The Britons were desperately trying to hold on to their lands in the face of unrelenting pressure from the Germanic tribes now holding most of the eastern half of the island. Apart from what is now known as Wales, the British (or Brythonic) kingdoms that survived were Rheged, Gododdin and Strathclyde. These were cut off from Wales politically in the seventh century, but Strathclyde continued as a centre of the old poetic traditions for a few more centuries when the burden (and the honor) fell to Wales."

http://www.castlewales.com/medwales.html

http://www.oremus.org/liturgy/wales/cal.html

http://www.data-wales.co.uk/caerleon1.htm

http://www.data-wales.co.uk/bards.htm

Now, I cannot say with any certainty that any of the sites listed above will do you any good at all!

My "viable" grip seems somewhat weak, when it comes to your question!

Possibly someone else here is a specialist in Welsh history, etc.?

Regards,

Please, please gentlemen / ladies, I still don't understand with your explanation. Just tell me the simplest way, using the England or France for the example. Can you explain the administration Hierarchy in the early middle age? What is the purpose of Duke, Count, Baron in the administration Hierarchy. If you want to spesific era, just explain about the England Kingdom in 1066.

Or, just tell my how the whole kingdom work at that time.