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Avestan Directions

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ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Avestan Directions
    Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 05:36
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It is not really possible that Indians want to separate themselves from other Indo-European peoples, Sanskrit is an Indo-European language and this language was introduced to Indians, either by a migration or by cultural relations of aborgingal people of India and an Indo-European people.
 
It is clear that India couldn't be the original land of Indo-European peoples, for example about Iranian people, we know according to Avesta, one of the oldest Indo-European sources, the original land of Iranians/Aryans (Airyana Vaeja) was in the region that "There were ten winter months there, two summer months; and those were cold for the waters, cold for the earth, cold for the trees."

Apart from  Airyanam vaejo it speaks about a Hapta-Hendu too.These two are refered as two of the sixteen iranian lands in their history of migration in  their scripture Vendidad.The Iranian homelands Airyanam Vaejo, described as too cold in its 10-months-long winter, andHapta-Hendu, described as rendered too hot for men.The Hapta-Hendu is widely accepted by linguists as a cognate of Saptha Sindhu in Sanskrit.Sapta Sindhu as per present understanding is Sindhu(Indus) & its tributaries.That defnitely is in the east of Iran.If Iran is the final place where they settled then where did they migrate from...?
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 07:54
I have a question, what is the view of Indian Nationalists regarding the Mittani? They are believed to have been Sindi in origin and are still some Kurdish tribes by the name of Sindi and Mattin that exist today. 

Also Kurds have some high frequanceys of Haplogroup R2 8% among Anatolian Kurds and 40% among Georgian Kurds who are much smaller in numbers and range in the thousands where as Anatolian Kurds range in the millions.
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  Quote Vivekanand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 10:40
Originally posted by Ince

I have a question, what is the view of Indian Nationalists regarding the Mittani?


Don't know what Indian Nationalist, whoever they are Big smile, would think of Mittani...

Originally posted by Ince

They are believed to have been Sindi in origin and are still some Kurdish tribes by the name of Sindi and Mattin that exist today. 

Also Kurds have some high frequanceys of Haplogroup R2 8% among Anatolian Kurds and 40% among Georgian Kurds who are much smaller in numbers and range in the thousands where as Anatolian Kurds range in the millions.


I have not read of any mention of Mittani in Hindu scriptures, pre-vedic or vedic ones..  I checked Wikipedia on Mittani.. but there is no mention of the Sindi origin of the Mittani Culture.. Do you have know any website where I could learn more on this topic....

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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 15:37
Originally posted by Vivekanand

Originally posted by Ince

I have a question, what is the view of Indian Nationalists regarding the Mittani?


Don't know what Indian Nationalist, whoever they are Big smile, would think of Mittani...

Originally posted by Ince

They are believed to have been Sindi in origin and are still some Kurdish tribes by the name of Sindi and Mattin that exist today. 

Also Kurds have some high frequanceys of Haplogroup R2 8% among Anatolian Kurds and 40% among Georgian Kurds who are much smaller in numbers and range in the thousands where as Anatolian Kurds range in the millions.


I have not read of any mention of Mittani in Hindu scriptures, pre-vedic or vedic ones..  I checked Wikipedia on Mittani.. but there is no mention of the Sindi origin of the Mittani Culture.. Do you have know any website where I could learn more on this topic....



The Mittani been Indo-Aryan in origin is included in the Wiki article and some websites on the web.  As for the sindi been the Mittani.  I have come across some sites that make that claim example here

http://www.interfaith.org/hinduism/origins/

Mehrdad Izady at Harvard University, showing the influence of Indic/Sindhi people on Kurdistan (parts of Iraq, Turkey, Iran) states that "The Mittani aristocratic house almost certainly was from the immigrant Sindis, who survive today in the populous Kurdish clan of Sindi in the same area where the Mittani kingdom once existed. These ancient Sindi seem to have been an Indic, and not Iranic group of people, and in fact a branch of the better known Sindis of India-Pakistan, ". Hence here the opinion is that Aryan influence travelled from India to outside). The only explanation is that if there was an Aryan migration then it took place such a long time ago that it predates Mohenjodaro cities, and everyone had forgotten about their ancestral lands.



Also the Kurdish religion Yezdi is believed to have been influenced by the Mittani and some believe it is similar to Hindu, for example here

Secret Hinduism in middle-east still surviving from ancient times
http://secretmiddleeasthinduism.blogspot.com/
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  Quote Vivekanand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 22:15
@Ince...

Thanks for the interfaith.org link.. Apart from the aspect you present..It reinstate the faith in my learnings that the Aryan Invasion Theory was absolute political nonsense.. 

Yes.. I have heard about Yezidi.. their Taus Melech temple in Lalesh... but never about Mittani...

Its intriguiging.. I saw some youtube videos of Yezidi temple at Lalesh, Iraq... it looks similiar to any olden day Hindu temple.. Their fire worship... worship of the peocock angle... Hindu's Worship Murugan/Skandar/Kathir (all same God with different names :-)) who is almost identical in being a knowledge giver ( Gnanavel, is is another name, Spear of Knowledge) and rides a peacock..


He is supposed to have circled the earth in search of the fruit of knowledge... Now, Yezidi also believe their Melech Taus landed upon their region while circling the earth...

Amazing similarity... Seeks more research... In fact, lot of research is going on this aspect as we speak.. This can be one missing link that can bridge the gap..

I came across Yezidi while, reading about Gobleki Tepe, the ancient 8000 BC temple unearthed in Urfa, south Turkey... 

It talks of a temple , perhaps the worlds oldest unearthed temple with strange stone carvings.. of the lizard like reptile and several pillars... leaving the archealogical world again back to square one.. There is so much more to learn... 


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  Quote Quaere Verum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 10:06
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

These two are refered as two of the sixteen iranian lands in their history of migration in  their scripture Vendidad.
 
To my knowledge Vidaevadata (Vendidad) does not talk about where Iranian peoples immigrated from, but it implies the lands finally inhabited by Iranian peoples (or explicitly the lands created by Ahura Mazda) when it makes mention of those sixteen lands including Hapta Hyndu.
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  Quote Quaere Verum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 10:12
Originally posted by Ince


Also the Kurdish religion Yezdi is believed to have been influenced by the Mittani and some believe it is similar to Hindu, for example here

Secret Hinduism in middle-east still surviving from ancient times
http://secretmiddleeasthinduism.blogspot.com/
 
Brother I just sought it and I got nothing specific about Yezidi religion or Yezidi Kurds being Indian in origin. Seemingly there are no reliable materials for such a talk. 
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  Quote Quaere Verum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 10:37
Originally posted by Vivekanand


Its intriguiging.. I saw some youtube videos of Yezidi temple at Lalesh, Iraq... it looks similiar to any olden day Hindu temple.. Their fire worship...
 
As far as I know there is nothing reliable to connect Yezidi creed to an assumed Indian origin. In practice Yezdanism is as Indian as Hinduism is Iranian (or probably even in a lesser degree, since the word Hindu itself is kind of an Iranian equivalent of Sanskrit Sindu*). That is to say there are only Indo-Iranian elements to be shared in common. As a matter of fact Yezidi religion shares explicit similarities with Zoroastrianism-a famous Iranian creed in which fire plays a truly eminent role.      
 
 
Originally posted by Vivekanand

worship of the peocock angle... Hindu's Worship Murugan/Skandar/Kathir (all same God with different names :-)) who is almost identical in being a knowledge giver ( Gnanavel, is is another name, Spear of Knowledge) and rides a peacock..
 
He is supposed to have circled the earth in search of the fruit of knowledge... Now, Yezidi also believe their Melech Taus landed upon their region while circling the earth...
 
Yezidi Kurds do not worship any peafowl at all. They only venerate an angel (perhaps in its Abrahamic significance) who is often supposed to be a fallen one (the same as Lucifer in Abrahamic religions) but this time they have got another story in which he (Melek Tawis) eventually receives the divine redemption. Tawisi Melek does not ride a peacock but is always depicted as a peacock that to me reminds a Semitic deity namely Adra Melech which is also depicted as half-peacock (in spite of the fact that Arabic melek is a cognate of Hebrew melech). 

Originally posted by Vivekanand

Amazing similarity... Seeks more research... In fact, lot of research is going on this aspect as we speak.. This can be one missing link that can bridge the gap..
 
There are clearly no exclusive likenesses between Yezidi and Indian religions out of common Indo-Iranian characteristics. Rumored assumptions implying an Idnian origin for Yezidanism or Yezidi Kurds are based on materials which obviously suffer from reliablity gap.

 
Originally posted by Vivekanand

I came across Yezidi while, reading about Gobleki Tepe, the ancient 8000 BC temple unearthed in Urfa, south Turkey... 

It talks of a temple , perhaps the worlds oldest unearthed temple with strange stone carvings.. of the lizard like reptile and several pillars... leaving the archealogical world again back to square one.. There is so much more to learn... 

 
Was that temple a Yezidi one?!
 
 
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  Quote Quaere Verum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 11:17
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Xorasan (Khorasan) is the land of the east
 
As far as I know Xorasan is combined of xwar (sun) and if I am nots mistaken a root "as-" from Parthian "asan-*" ~ "seem, appear" rather than being related to Xawrusa or something.
 
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Xawrava (xawr=sun + ava=downward) meant "west", the modern Persian word for "west" is Xavar (Khavar), however it can also mean "east", like "Khavar-mianeh" (Middle East),
 
I had not heard of Xawarva within Persian vocabulary. But as a matter of fact in Kirmanji Kurdish there is Hwerawa or Xwerawa (in Southern dialects) and Rojhawa (in Central and Northern ones) which are respectively combined of hwer / rojh (sun) and "awa". The later word, awa, means disappeared or vanished as well as the verb awa bun is used in sense of to disappear / to vanish. 
 
By the way Persian "xavar" mostly means "east" and if I am not mistaken its etymology has nothing to do with a presumed Avestan "hvara-ava".
 
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

the same Avestan word Apaxtar was used for "north", in the modern Persian this is Bakhtar, of course it also can mean "east" in some sources, maybe because Bakhtar (Bactria) was in the east and also "west" in the several other sources, the former name of Kermanshah province in the west of Iran was Bakhtaran!!
 
New Persian baxtar is most likely a cognate of Avestan apaxtar, though I have not heard of it being used in sense of "east" but only "west". Brother, Kermanshah was periodically named Baxtaran because of some political regards and the designation was expiclity due to the fact that Kermanshah is located on the west of Iran. That is to say the word baxtar is not used in sense of west because Kermanshah is located on the western Iran.
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  Quote Maggie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2018 at 17:17
Hi everyone... I am pretty new here. This is my first post. I'm thinking of getting a tattoo (please do not laugh :P ) that reads "dog, best companion with eternal love" and I would love it to be in Avestan language. I have done lots of research and have found each word's letters in Avestan Dictionary (Dog, Companion, Love, forever):

span [-]: m. dog

airyêmâ [airyaman]: 6 (N) companion, friend (hz1)

kaiti [-]: f. love, affection, friendship (k122)

ýavaêtâtaêca [ýavaêtât]: 14 (D) f. forever (k423)

Using the Avestan alphabet for each letter, it turned into the following image. 


Can someone please check to see if it's written correctly? No one wants a misspelled tattoo on their body ;) 

Greatly appreciate it! 
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