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Kanas_Krumesis View Drop Down
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Posts: 326 		  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Avestan Directions
    Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 07:03

"With all-outstripping chariot-wheel, O Indra,Thou, far-famed, hast overthrown the twice ten kings …Thou goest from fight to fight, intrepidly. Destroying castle after castle here with strength. (RV 1.53)"

"Indra - 5.29.10 - "One car-wheel of the Sun thou rolledst forward, and one thou settest free to move for Kutsa. Thou slewest noseless Dasyus with thy weapon, and in their home o'erthrewest hostile speakers." 

"Indra - 1.103.3 - "Armed with his bolt and trusting in his prowess he wandered shattering the forts of Dasas. Cast thy dart, knowing, Thunderer, at the Dasyu; increase the Arya's might and glory, Indra."

What about Dasyan (Dasa) people? Were not Dasa a local population of India according Rigveda? They were dark-skin, opposite to Aryans. I don`t think they lived in the same area firstly.
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 20:23
I didnt get it.

Where are the "migrating aryans" mentioned...?Where are the places mentioned..?
Okay which are the places mentioned here..?


Where is it said that Aryans came from outside..?
Where is it said that Dasyus & Dasas are aboriginal or black skinned..?
Rigeveda is not mentioning about the skin colour of Dasyus & dasas but you are proposing... isnt it..?
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 22:46
Originally posted by balochii

"Indus Saraswati Civilization" is a word made by indian nationalistic people, you are one of them who think aryans are native to india
 
The real civilization is "indus Valley civilization"

More than 414 sites archaeological sites are exposed recently on the banks of Gaggar-Hakra river.Satellite studies had proved that this is the sRigvedic Saraswati river which dried up in 1900BC
due to tectonic disturbances resulting in its tributaries cahnging their course into Indus.
Only less than 4 dozen site are on the banks of Indus and more than 80% archaeological sites ie remnants of old civilization are on the banks of saraswathi and hence the name.
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As I mentioned in another thread, there are some words in almost all Indo-European languages but not in Sanskrit, the main reason could be that Indians migrated to a different region and these words could be useless for them, one of these words is Proto-IE *sneigʷhe- (to snow):
 
Tokharian: B śiñcatstse 'snowy' (Adams 629)

Avestan: snaēženti (ayąn) `an einem schneienden Tage', conj. snaēžāt_ `wird schneien'

Old Greek: hom. acc. níph-a `fallender Schnee'; hom. agá-nnipho- `sehr beschneit'; niphetó-s m. `fallender Schnee, Schneesturm'; niphás, -ádos f. `Schneeflocke, -gestöber'; néi̯phei̯, aor. nêi̯psai̯, neiphthē̂nai̯, ft. néi̯psei̯ `es schneit'

Latin: nix, gen. nivis f. `Schnee'; nīvit, -ere `schneien', ninguit, nīnxit, -ere `schneien'

Celtic: *snig-, *snixt- > Ir snigid `es tropft, regnet', snige `Tropfen, Regen', snechta `Schnee'; Cymr nyf `Schnee', nyfio `schneien'

Russ. meaning: снег; идти (о снеге)
 
Of course there are also some words in the Eastern Indo-European languages which can not be found in the Western ones, like about the word for "Camel": Sanskrit Ushtra, Persian Ushtor, Armenian Ught, ...
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Posts: 326 		  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 03:23
So Dasas had their castles and forts (target for Aryans), but they weren`t aboriginal?! Places mentioned in Rigveda situated in North India, and obviously Dasas lived right there. Aryans conquered them. Dasas were black skinned and this has been said many times in Rigveda. Even from modern point of veiw this is a clear racist book. This is fully in line with caste system, introduced in sociaty by Indo-Aryans, which is ancient form of Apartheid.
 
"Black skin is impious" (‘Dasam varnam adharam’) -Sans., Rg.V. II.12.4
 
Indra - 1.130.8 - "Indra in battles help his Aryan worshipper, he who hath hundred helps at hand in every fray, in frays that win the light of heaven. Plaguing the lawless he gave up to Manu's seed the dusky skin; Blazing, 'twere, he burns each covetous man away, he burns, the tyrannous away."
 
Soma Pavamana - 9.73.5 - "O'er Sire and Mother they have roared in unison bright with the verse of praise, burning up riteless men, Blowing away with supernatural might from earth and from the heavens the swarthy skin which Indra hates."
 
"Indra, the slayer of Vrittra, the destroyer of cities, has scattered the Dasyu (hosts) sprang from a black womb." RgV. II 20.6
 
The new ideas of Hindus nationalism about substantive creation of Indian civilization don`t have any scientific bases.
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 03:44
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

As I mentioned in another thread, there are some words in almost all Indo-European languages but not in Sanskrit, the main reason could be that Indians migrated to a different region and these words could be useless for them, one of these words is Proto-IE *sneigʷhe- (to snow):
 
Tokharian: B śiñcatstse 'snowy' (Adams 629)

Avestan: snaēženti (ayąn) `an einem schneienden Tage', conj. snaēžāt_ `wird schneien'

Old Greek: hom. acc. níph-a `fallender Schnee'; hom. agá-nnipho- `sehr beschneit'; niphetó-s m. `fallender Schnee, Schneesturm'; niphás, -ádos f. `Schneeflocke, -gestöber'; néi̯phei̯, aor. nêi̯psai̯, neiphthē̂nai̯, ft. néi̯psei̯ `es schneit'

Latin: nix, gen. nivis f. `Schnee'; nīvit, -ere `schneien', ninguit, nīnxit, -ere `schneien'

Celtic: *snig-, *snixt- > Ir snigid `es tropft, regnet', snige `Tropfen, Regen', snechta `Schnee'; Cymr nyf `Schnee', nyfio `schneien'

Russ. meaning: снег; идти (о снеге)
 
Of course there are also some words in the Eastern Indo-European languages which can not be found in the Western ones, like about the word for "Camel": Sanskrit Ushtra, Persian Ushtor, Armenian Ught, ...

In sanskrit 'hima' means snow and 'hiems' in latin has a similar meaning.
Presence & absence of cognates and same words in languages can show relation but not attest any migration and direction of  migration.
All the scientific tools viz.Archaeology , Archaeo-astronomy,anthropology & Genetics has disproved any possibility of invasion or migration to Indus-saraswati valley from 7000Bc to 600BC.
American Archaeologist J.Shaffer who carried out archaeological studies in Indus & saraswati sites had called Aryan Invasion theory a "myth' way back in 1984.
US anthropologists Kenneth Kennady , John Lukacs & Brian Hemphill has concluded after their study that there is no trace of "demographic disruption" in the north west of indian sub continent from 5000BC till 800BC.
This negates the possibility of any massive intrusion let it be invasion or migration , by so called  Indo-Aryans or other populations during that period.
Die-hard proponants of such an invasion/migration have therefore been compelled to downscale it to a "trickle - in" infiltration limited enough to have left no physical trace, although they are at pains to explain how a "trickle" was able to radically alter India's  linguistic and cultural landscape,when much more massive invasions of historical periods failed to do so.

In 1999 Estonian Biologist Toomas Kivislid along with 14 other biologists of various nationalities(including M.J.Bamshad) carried out a study for identifying the genetical link between Indian & west eurasian populations.And they found out a remote seperation between the two branches rather than recent population movement towards India.
In their words
" We found an extensive deep late pleistocene genetic link between contemporary European & Indians provided by the mtDNA haplogroup U which encompasses roughly a fifth of mtDNA lineage of both the populations.Our estimate for this split(of Europeans and Indians) is close to the suggested time for peopling of asia and the first expansion of anatomically modern humans in Eurasia and likely pre-dates their spread to Europe".
The second study was published just a month later by Us biological Anthropologist Todd R Disotell.
 Concluding that the Eurasian connection is therefore traced to the original migration out of Africa.
On the genetic Level " the supposed Aryan Invasion of India 3000 to 4000 years ago was much less significant than generally believed.
Various other genetical and anthropological studies were conducted afterwards which obtained similar results and many are presently going on.

So none of the scientifically attested tools are  supporting the Aryan Invasion/migration to Indus-Saraswati civilization but indicating an indegeous civilization and culture & language too.
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 03:47

 

Rigveda is infact silent about a former homeland , or immigration and contains positive indications about the Aryas very long presence in Sapta sindhu.Hymn X.75 , 5 gives a list of names of rivers not in the order from west to east as we would expect from invaders advancing from that region but from east to west as people long settled and having east as the starting point of referance

(10.75 , 5)

Favour ye this my laud O Ganga , Yamuna O Sutudri , Parusni and Saraswati:

With Asikni , Vitasta , O Marudvrdha , O Arjikiya with Susoma hear my call.

 

There are passages expressing the Aryans’ strong sense of being rooted in their lands when they recall their ancestors taking their place in the sacrifice “here”, like the Angiras family(IV , 1 , 13)

Here did our human fathers take their places,fain to fulfill sacred law of worship

Forth drave they ,with loud call, Dawn’s teeming Milch-kine bid in the mountain stable,in the cavern.

 

  or the Vasisthas (VII , 76 , 4).

 

They were God’s companion at the banquet, the ancient sages true to Law Eternal.

The fathers found the light that lay in darkness,and with effectual words begat the Morning

 

Furthar more Vedic texts refer to peoples being exiled or drive away from Saptha Sindhu.

The early  Aitareya Brahmana (VII , 33 , 6 or VII , 18) writes of Sage Visvamitra exiling his 50 disobedient sons so that in later periods  “ most of the Dasyus are the descendents of Viswamitra , mostly in the east”(Vedic Index, ‘andhra’)

In Rigveda we have atleast two similar and much more informative passages Rig veda VII , 18 , 15 &16  tells how Indra helped King Sudas to defeat his numerically superior enemies(the 10 kings) many of whom were Aryan tribes and scattered them far over the earth(Para sardhantam nunude abhi ksam).

 

These Trtsus under indra’s careful guidance came speeding like loose waters rushing down wards

The foemen measuring exceeding closely,abandoned to Sudas all their provisions.

The hero’s side who drank the dressed oblation,Indra’s denier far o’er earth he scattered.

Indra brought down the fierce destroyer’s fury,He gave them various roads,the path’s controller.

 

 In VII . 6 , 3  Agni assailed repeatedly those Dasyus and from the east turned the unholy ones to the west. (…purvas cakara aparam).

 

The foolish , faithless, rudely speaking niggards , without belief or sacrifice or worship

Far away sway hath Agni chased those Dasytis, and in cast, hath turned the godless westward

 

Now to take the last referance , Since Dasyus are as per Aryan Invasion Theory the native Dravidians or Mundas or what ever else , they should have been driven south yet the text says unequivocally “west”.

Consequently Rigveda text not only negates any Aryan entry and displacement of ‘natives’ but states explicitely that both Aryans and Dasyus were driven westward and far over earth.

So Is this westward migration that of aborigines...?
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 03:48
Originally posted by Kanas_Krumesis

So Dasas had their castles and forts (target for Aryans), but they weren`t aboriginal?! Places mentioned in Rigveda situated in North India, and obviously Dasas lived right there. Aryans conquered them. Dasas were black skinned and this has been said many times in Rigveda. Even from modern point of veiw this is a clear racist book. This is fully in line with caste system, introduced in sociaty by Indo-Aryans, which is ancient form of Apartheid.
 
"Black skin is impious" (‘Dasam varnam adharam’) -Sans., Rg.V. II.12.4
 
Indra - 1.130.8 - "Indra in battles help his Aryan worshipper, he who hath hundred helps at hand in every fray, in frays that win the light of heaven. Plaguing the lawless he gave up to Manu's seed the dusky skin; Blazing, 'twere, he burns each covetous man away, he burns, the tyrannous away."
 
Soma Pavamana - 9.73.5 - "O'er Sire and Mother they have roared in unison bright with the verse of praise, burning up riteless men, Blowing away with supernatural might from earth and from the heavens the swarthy skin which Indra hates."
 
"Indra, the slayer of Vrittra, the destroyer of cities, has scattered the Dasyu (hosts) sprang from a black womb." RgV. II 20.6
 
The new ideas of Hindus nationalism about substantive creation of Indian civilization don`t have any scientific bases.

Rigveda is infact silent about a former homeland , or immigration and contains positive indications about the Aryas very long presence in Sapta sindhu.Hymn X.75 , 5 gives a list of names of rivers not in the order from west to east as we would expect from invaders advancing from that region but from east to west as people long settled and having east as the starting point of referance

(10.75 , 5)

Favour ye this my laud O Ganga , Yamuna O Sutudri , Parusni and Saraswati:

With Asikni , Vitasta , O Marudvrdha , O Arjikiya with Susoma hear my call.

 

There are passages expressing the Aryans’ strong sense of being rooted in their lands when they recall their ancestors taking their place in the sacrifice “here”, like the Angiras family(IV , 1 , 13)

Here did our human fathers take their places,fain to fulfill sacred law of worship

Forth drave they ,with loud call, Dawn’s teeming Milch-kine bid in the mountain stable,in the cavern.

 

  or the Vasisthas (VII , 76 , 4).

 

They were God’s companion at the banquet, the ancient sages true to Law Eternal.

The fathers found the light that lay in darkness,and with effectual words begat the Morning

 

Furthar more Vedic texts refer to peoples being exiled or drive away from Saptha Sindhu.

The early  Aitareya Brahmana (VII , 33 , 6 or VII , 18) writes of Sage Visvamitra exiling his 50 disobedient sons so that in later periods  “ most of the Dasyus are the descendents of Viswamitra , mostly in the east”(Vedic Index, ‘andhra’)

In Rigveda we have atleast two similar and much more informative passages Rig veda VII , 18 , 15 &16  tells how Indra helped King Sudas to defeat his numerically superior enemies(the 10 kings) many of whom were Aryan tribes and scattered them far over the earth(Para sardhantam nunude abhi ksam).

 

These Trtsus under indra’s careful guidance came speeding like loose waters rushing down wards

The foemen measuring exceeding closely,abandoned to Sudas all their provisions.

The hero’s side who drank the dressed oblation,Indra’s denier far o’er earth he scattered.

Indra brought down the fierce destroyer’s fury,He gave them various roads,the path’s controller.

 

 In VII . 6 , 3  Agni assailed repeatedly those Dasyus and from the east turned the unholy ones to the west. (…purvas cakara aparam).

 

The foolish , faithless, rudely speaking niggards , without belief or sacrifice or worship

Far away sway hath Agni chased those Dasytis, and in cast, hath turned the godless westward

 

Now to take the last referance , Since Dasyus are as per Aryan Invasion Theory the native Dravidians or Mundas or what ever else , they should have been driven south yet the text says unequivocally “west”.

Consequently Rigveda text not only negates any Aryan entry and displacement of ‘natives’ but states explicitely that both Aryans and Dasyus were driven westward and far over earth.

So Is this westward migration that of aborigines...?
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 03:50
Originally posted by Kanas_Krumesis

So Dasas had their castles and forts (target for Aryans), but they weren`t aboriginal?! Places mentioned in Rigveda situated in North India, and obviously Dasas lived right there. Aryans conquered them. Dasas were black skinned and this has been said many times in Rigveda. Even from modern point of veiw this is a clear racist book. This is fully in line with caste system, introduced in sociaty by Indo-Aryans, which is ancient form of Apartheid.
 
"Black skin is impious" (‘Dasam varnam adharam’) -Sans., Rg.V. II.12.4
 
Indra - 1.130.8 - "Indra in battles help his Aryan worshipper, he who hath hundred helps at hand in every fray, in frays that win the light of heaven. Plaguing the lawless he gave up to Manu's seed the dusky skin; Blazing, 'twere, he burns each covetous man away, he burns, the tyrannous away."
 
Soma Pavamana - 9.73.5 - "O'er Sire and Mother they have roared in unison bright with the verse of praise, burning up riteless men, Blowing away with supernatural might from earth and from the heavens the swarthy skin which Indra hates."
 
"Indra, the slayer of Vrittra, the destroyer of cities, has scattered the Dasyu (hosts) sprang from a black womb." RgV. II 20.6
 
The new ideas of Hindus nationalism about substantive creation of Indian civilization don`t have any scientific bases.
You should bother to go through the scientific proofs then you will find yourself baseless.
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 04:10
Originally posted by Kanas_Krumesis

"With all-outstripping chariot-wheel, O Indra,Thou, far-famed, hast overthrown the twice ten kings …Thou goest from fight to fight, intrepidly. Destroying castle after castle here with strength. (RV 1.53)"

"Indra - 5.29.10 - "One car-wheel of the Sun thou rolledst forward, and one thou settest free to move for Kutsa. Thou slewest noseless Dasyus with thy weapon, and in their home o'erthrewest hostile speakers." 

"Indra - 1.103.3 - "Armed with his bolt and trusting in his prowess he wandered shattering the forts of Dasas. Cast thy dart, knowing, Thunderer, at the Dasyu; increase the Arya's might and glory, Indra."

What about Dasyan (Dasa) people? Were not Dasa a local population of India according Rigveda? They were dark-skin, opposite to Aryans. I don`t think they lived in the same area firstly.


The Verses which you have quoted her are speaking nothing about a migration.
Secondly they are hymns praising god Indra firstly by Savya Angiras(1.53.9) second by Kutsa Angiras(1.103.3) and third by Gauriviti Shaktya who is a Vasistha(5.29.10). They were all priests of Bharatha clan which itself is a puru clan although other purus were also there.
in the battle of ten kings 'dasarajna' Sudas had defeated aryan as well as non-aryan people like Dasyus.The Anus ,Alinas ,Bhrigus etc are all aryans so this canot be taken as an aryan Invasion.
And Indra is Mythological diety Him love for soma and his wars against dasyus and thunder weapons are all exagerrated praises rather than facts.
apart from this there is no mention of any place where Indra had fought the dasyus and where he came from.
If you consider those as "scientific proof".Then I am really unable to understand your concept about science.
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 04:15
Originally posted by Kanas_Krumesis

So Dasas had their castles and forts (target for Aryans), but they weren`t aboriginal?! Places mentioned in Rigveda situated in North India, and obviously Dasas lived right there. Aryans conquered them. Dasas were black skinned and this has been said many times in Rigveda. Even from modern point of veiw this is a clear racist book. This is fully in line with caste system, introduced in sociaty by Indo-Aryans, which is ancient form of Apartheid.
 
"Black skin is impious" (‘Dasam varnam adharam’) -Sans., Rg.V. II.12.4
 
Indra - 1.130.8 - "Indra in battles help his Aryan worshipper, he who hath hundred helps at hand in every fray, in frays that win the light of heaven. Plaguing the lawless he gave up to Manu's seed the dusky skin; Blazing, 'twere, he burns each covetous man away, he burns, the tyrannous away."
 
Soma Pavamana - 9.73.5 - "O'er Sire and Mother they have roared in unison bright with the verse of praise, burning up riteless men, Blowing away with supernatural might from earth and from the heavens the swarthy skin which Indra hates."
 
"Indra, the slayer of Vrittra, the destroyer of cities, has scattered the Dasyu (hosts) sprang from a black womb." RgV. II 20.6
 
The new ideas of Hindus nationalism about substantive creation of Indian civilization don`t have any scientific bases.

Can you justify your claims of Aboriginal(black skinned or negritto) identities of Dasas & Dasyus with genetical proofs ..A lot of Genetical studies had been conducted and are ongoing in the Indus-saraswathi valley.
Can you produce some reports in favour of your claim..?
Because I want to believe you.
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 05:08
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by Kanas_Krumesis

"With all-outstripping chariot-wheel, O Indra,Thou, far-famed, hast overthrown the twice ten kings …Thou goest from fight to fight, intrepidly. Destroying castle after castle here with strength. (RV 1.53)"

"Indra - 5.29.10 - "One car-wheel of the Sun thou rolledst forward, and one thou settest free to move for Kutsa. Thou slewest noseless Dasyus with thy weapon, and in their home o'erthrewest hostile speakers." 

"Indra - 1.103.3 - "Armed with his bolt and trusting in his prowess he wandered shattering the forts of Dasas. Cast thy dart, knowing, Thunderer, at the Dasyu; increase the Arya's might and glory, Indra."

What about Dasyan (Dasa) people? Were not Dasa a local population of India according Rigveda? They were dark-skin, opposite to Aryans. I don`t think they lived in the same area firstly.


The Verses which you have quoted her are speaking nothing about a migration.
Secondly they are hymns praising god Indra firstly by Savya Angiras(1.53.9) second by Kutsa Angiras(1.103.3) and third by Gauriviti Shaktya who is a Vasistha(5.29.10). They were all priests of Bharatha clan which itself is a puru clan although other purus were also there.
in the battle of ten kings 'dasarajna' Sudas had defeated aryan as well as non-aryan people like Dasyus.The Anus ,Alinas ,Bhrigus etc are all aryans so this canot be taken as an aryan Invasion.
And Indra is Mythological diety Him love for soma and his wars against dasyus and thunder weapons are all exagerrated praises rather than facts.
apart from this there is no mention of any place where Indra had fought the dasyus and where he came from.
If you consider those as "scientific proof".Then I am really unable to understand your concept about science.
Sudas Was a Bharatha king and he attributes his winning the dasarajna to Indra the thunder god.
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2010 at 07:05
The link recent genetical studies which has ruled out the possibility of an Aryan invasion
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Western half of pakistan and northern pakistan and also eastern afghanistan are the key to this aryan argument, I really wish those areas were safe for archaeologists to go.
 
Also Ranjitvanambiar, the natives of punjab and sindh even to this day are really darkskinned, I am not talking about sikhs or modern pakistani punjabies and sindhis who live in the cities who have been clearly effected by outside genes, i am talking about going to villages where people have been living for thousands of years, almost all of them look like dravdians, how do you explain this? there is no way these people migrated westwards, because if you just go west of this area in to western pakistan, afghanistan and iran people are much might skinned then dravidians
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Originally posted by balochii

Western half of pakistan and northern pakistan and also eastern afghanistan are the key to this aryan argument, I really wish those areas were safe for archaeologists to go.
 
Also Ranjitvanambiar, the natives of punjab and sindh even to this day are really darkskinned, I am not talking about sikhs or modern pakistani punjabies and sindhis who live in the cities who have been clearly effected by outside genes, i am talking about going to villages where people have been living for thousands of years, almost all of them look like dravdians, how do you explain this? there is no way these people migrated westwards, because if you just go west of this area in to western pakistan, afghanistan and iran people are much might skinned then dravidians


Mr. Balochii, 

Its strange that one would arrive upon conclusions by observing skin color of people at villages as aganist those in cities.. However, there is no genetic difference amongst these people, making the skin color argument futile..

Why? I can tell you a hundreds of reasons.. but would you be patient enough to hear me out...

Seeing the earlier outbursts at ranjithvnambiar, I think there would be no reason for you to spare me as well.... But I am still hopeful of reciprocal good behavior from you..

Please take time to read this first and then we can discuss again.. 


Now before branding this a Hindu Nationalist attempt, read the purpose of the researchers in the penultimate paragraphs...  They are trying to fight disease and not to prove anyones superiority

Let us be clear, scientifically proven migration has happened 75000 years or more earlier...Aryan invasion was never proven, it was circumstantial proof, like the ones you put forward, skin color and eye color...The field of genetics was not advanced enough when this hypothesis was expounded..  

Science, with its advancement, will correct the mistakes we made... Hopefully we are open-minded enough analyze and accept these.... Aryan Invasion is a myth, which science has busted... it was a political theory, not a scientific one.. :-)

It does not change practically anything for me or you, we just know a little better who we are...

Thanks,
Vivek
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ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 01:34
Dear Balochi,
I hope you have gone through the link that I have posted.Do you think those geneticists of different nationalities(who counted in hundreds) were ignorent of the where abouts and the physical features of the people whom they were studying..?
You were found to mention frequently about Dravidians..? what do you mean by saying a dravidian..?
and you ignored my earlier question.
Who actually as per you are dravidians..? What are their physical features..?What makes them different from other ethnic groups..?
before finding out clear answers for such questions you cannot claim a group of people to be dravidians.
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Posts: 15 		  Quote Vivekanand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 04:02
@Kanas_Krumesis

What is 'Dasam Varnam Adharam'.. Looks like this is a verse made up by someone, or at the least definitely misquoted


Reason1

Sanskrit meaning of the words

Dasa - Dasa/Sub-servient/ Servant/ Maid
Varnam - Colour/Classification
Adharam - Lips

In whatever way I want to read... this never black is impious...

It can mean .. 'The lip colored maid/ sub-servient'

Now, I guess the creator of this verse..because of not being well versed in sanskrit has confused 'Adharmam' ( Unlawful) to 'Adharam'...

Reason 2 

Its mentioned that this belongs to RV II chapter, 12th Hymn, Verse 4. Again this is completely wrong.. The correct verse is given below.. they are about Indra

Rg Veda II.XII.4

By whom this universe was made to tremble, who chased away the humbled brood of demons,
Who, like a gambler gathering his winnings seized the foe's riches, He, O men, is Indra.


Now, why would someone makeup such a thing, to put down an ancient text or to purposefully target a culture.. Really funny and weird...
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Posts: 15 		  Quote Vivekanand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 04:14
I googled this 'Dasa' phrase.. sad that this phony stuff being used by a few websites to link racism to the Rg.. 

Ignorance of people is the main weapon of these people... lets share more knowledge to eradicate these phonies from intervening
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Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 06:13

i personally dont know and dont care for the aryan invasion theory, i dont know if it is true or not, however what hindu nationalistics always say is the "out of india theory" there is absoultly no proof of that at all, like i said the natives of punjab and sindh are darkskinned, i dont care what there DNA is, there is no way they could have moved west wards in to afghanistan or Iran because iranians and afghans look very different from the natives of punjab and sindh who live in the villages. Looks play a huge role in any sort of mass migration, surely it would have changed some looks in Afghanistan or Iran if this mass migration from india took place.



Edited by balochii - 20-Jul-2010 at 06:15
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 06:22
It is not really possible that Indians want to separate themselves from other Indo-European peoples, Sanskrit is an Indo-European language and this language was introduced to Indians, either by a migration or by cultural relations of aborgingal people of India and an Indo-European people.
 
It is clear that India couldn't be the original land of Indo-European peoples, for example about Iranian people, we know according to Avesta, one of the oldest Indo-European sources, the original land of Iranians/Aryans (Airyana Vaeja) was in the region that "There were ten winter months there, two summer months; and those were cold for the waters, cold for the earth, cold for the trees."
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