Kurdish ancestry: what is true, and what isn't?

Originally posted by kalhur xorto when i listen to kurdish music from turkey it sounds that the pronounciation of words are much similar to persian than our own dialect in southern kurdestan, but as you say the  kurmanji gramatic is very different from  farsi . i don't know why, but somehow the words are pronouncrd much more like persian in kurmanji.  i listened to ibrahim tatlisa song . shemame the words for things are often very identical to persian. i have noticed too that:  kurmanji berf = barf persian wafer in my dialect.                baran= baran persian . waaran in my dialect  often B is changed to W i southern kurdestan but it is B in north like in persian!! unfortunately in our days after the iran iraq war which resulted to the devastation of many vilages and cities . many people from our tribe have  left thier homes and setteled around  persian speaking cities like kermanshah and our dialect is changed too i see when younger people are speaking kalhuri often they use persian words instead of using their own and the result is slowly the language changes !! and an old dialect is disapearing

The first time I had heard Persian I noticed how similar it was to Kurmanji.  I also find it more easiar to understand then Zaza and times.  I think their is also the Kh sound that Kuramnji tend to use more Xwode,Xwasin.

I had a Persian friend at school and I showed him some Kurdish songs, he said he found the Kurmanji/Sorani ones easier to understand then Gorani and Hawrmani, it was only a few songs so I not sure if it could be the case.

i saw the clip . i will say i don't understand the most of it only some words and some sntences , maybe he is not speaking very clear and also because the gramatic of kurmanji is very different from my  own dialect and  from farsi too, but i can understand much more easier  hawrami   or ardalani(senandaji).or sorani i can follow the  news in sorani  too, but not in  kurmanji

Edited by kalhur - 07-May-2010 at 18:15

ince

Edited by kalhur - 07-May-2010 at 18:56

ha ha  when he sings it is much more kalhuri, but when they talk it is more farsi than kalhuri  the young generation  can't speak real kalhuri !!!they use more and more farsi words instead of genuine old kalhuri

  @Kalhur-Ince  Like i said this is because Kurmanci was used as conversation language between Persian and Kurds. I would not rely on Ibrahim Tatlises´s Kurmanci he uses many Arabic Words because he is an half Arab and the biggest Problem is the guy even can´t speak realy Kurmanci he just knows some words. Kurmanci influenced by Persian yes but not so much like many people thing. It are just a few Words. Kurmanci has it own Grammer. unfortunately some Kalhur-Lek Kurds get assimilated by Persian language like the Lori People which were for sure former Kurds!  And no of course Zazaki is closer to Kurmanci than Persian much closer! Some Kurmanci speakers just have the persianized Speaking art. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7TZTNARxe4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7TZTNARxe4

Edited by Xorto - 08-May-2010 at 13:08

Originally posted by Xorto   @Kalhur-Ince  Like i said this is because Kurmanci was used as conversation language between Persian and Kurds. I would not rely on Ibrahim Tatlises´s Kurmanci he uses many Arabic Words because he is an half Arab and the biggest Problem is the guy even can´t speak realy Kurmanci he just knows some words. Kurmanci influenced by Persian yes but not so much like many people thing. It are just a few Words. Kurmanci has it own Grammer. unfortunately some Kalhur-Lek Kurds get assimilated by Persian language like the Lori People which were for sure former Kurds!  And no of course Zazaki is closer to Kurmanci than Persian much closer! Some Kurmanci speakers just have the persianized Speaking art.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7TZTNARxe4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7TZTNARxe4

I know that Zaza is much closer to Kurmanji but what I was trying to say is that at times it is more easier to understand Persians, because Kurmanji speakers tend to pronounce some words more similar to Persian.

For example,. I listen to Kurdish music alot and find it hard to understand Gorani and Hawrmani. 
I showed my mum these music videos and she could only understand a few words and her Kurdish is very good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gtPeTs8jaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8xUIrvIfC0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GERJdZl5goo

Also for example here are Persian clips, I can understand like every 2 to 3rd word.  But some Persian speakers are also very hard to understand , maybe do to different accents. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANgfs-ssDhM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi0ysyyCMd4


Edited by Ince - 08-May-2010 at 17:43

Hey Kalhuri, I saw this on Youtube and thought you'd like to see it, it shows what the Kurds suffer in Turkey.  I've even lost a few family members, who joined the PKK and were killed by Turks . 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm9GQ7gFdKM


Edited by Ince - 08-May-2010 at 18:05

Originally posted by kalhur i saw that clip first i have to salut all the kurdish martyrs which they have given their lives to defend their homeland.  . it is very sad that kurdish problem should not  be solved in a peaceful way.  in one side the governemnt in turkey is blamed, but for a people  like kurds divided between larger nations with large military power like turkey iraq, iran and syria we  should be very cautious to do not put in danger the civil population by taking  in arms and fight for a liberation  when the chance of wining  is slim.  in modern war a few hundred man armed with light machin gun have no chans to win a battle . they can survive themselves in the mountain , but the cities and villages are left to the merci of barbarian enemies. the civilian populatin are exposed to mass murder, rape and so on.  i believe the kurdish political organisations are also responsible for a great part of this tragedy, i saw in the tv here in sweden that in iraq how the two major political kurdish  fractions faught each other one supporting saddam  for taking control over a city  and calling each other  JASH. often damage done by political organisation is worse than enemies!!  i am glad that american liberated iraq and kurdish population can enjoy a freedom.  i am realy grateful of USA for what they did in iraq. i wonder if sadam was still in power in iraq . how  was the situation  there? i believe human right and national right of kurdish populations in all the countries like turkey , iraq, iran , syra is tied to the right of rest of population and  armed action against these governeent can't solve this problem.  we need a great political and culturel effort to bring  democracy to these countries not by armed strugle by fighting politically and culturaly to save our language and culture  in the first hand. kurds should be engaged for the legitamate right of both turks , iraqian arabs, iranian fars and naturally  kurds. i see on internet many racistical word against arabs and turks . it is not right even i see that turks and arabs are insulting kurds all the time . we should not do like they do . we shall show civilised manner and use civilised words.  if we shall  put ourselves in a separatist position, we loose the support of turks . arabs, iranian populations and if by grace of god kurds win the war against all of them what they will get is a country  encircled by enemies with  no acces to the sea and in permanat war with their neighbours.   i believe a federal and democratic solutionfor the region is the best goal.

When PUK and PDK fought each other, a maximum of 4000 people died, of whom were all troops, no civilians! and every country has had a civil war, this things happen and its all behind us now.. a kurdish state is bound to happen sooner or later.

Originally posted by kalhur thank god that this civil war is over, because it was  REALY a great shame!!   when a people is in fight for their freedom and their land is occupied  and their cities and vilages are bombed and thousends of populations are jailed  by a powerful enemy .  is it wise to fight each other instead of gathering force and fighting the enemy?  the sorrow over our ruined cities and villages and our  people moved to iranian city and urbanised was not enough and see our brothers in iraq are killing each other by thousends and insulting each other and accusing each other as JASH on forigne TV  i hope this kind of fight for power  will never happened again!

Yeah it was a shame, but not to worry, we are now unitied with a decent army ;)
and kurdistan is the best place in the whole of iraq right now, I don't know if you seen the new cities, if not ask and I will post you some photos.

Originally posted by Azadi We're far from united, what illusion are you trying to set up... but it's a beginning.

Im talking about kurds in iraq.