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Was China the biggest economy of last 2000 years?

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  Quote honeybee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Was China the biggest economy of last 2000 years?
    Posted: 16-Jun-2010 at 17:48
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma

For the time of its existence, the Roman Empire was the world's largest economy. It certainly was the largest economic power of the West until the Industrial Revolution according to Goldsmith:

In terms of settled territory the early Roman empire with about 3.3 km2 was
the largest political, economic and monetary unit in the Western world until it
was overtaken by the expansion of the United States and of the Russian empire
in the mid-19th century. With about 55 million inhabitants it was more populous
than any western country until, again, the mid-19th century, equalling even the
present population of the large European nation-states-France, Germany, Great
Britain and Italy; and probably was not surpassed by its only two competitors,
the Chinese empire and the less durable empires that arose from time to time in
the In Han peninsula, until about AD 1000. Finally, in terms of real national
produ. t, a comparison which is much more difficult to make, the Roman empire
with a national product of, as will be shown below, slightly over 20 billion
sesterces (HS), equal to about 1,700 t of gold, probably surpassed any Western
economy until the early 19th century. On all three tests, then, the early Roman
empire was the largest Western economic unit for nearly two millennia.


Interestingly, its standard of living around 300 AD was higher than China's in the 1930s:

As the standard of living in Diocletian's time is likely to have been below that of the
early Empire, expenditures per adult should have been above 200 IU which compares with 370 IU
per occupied person in Italy in 1893, 163 IU in Brazil in 1928, 138 IU in China in 1933 and 132 IU
in India in 1867/68.


Source: Raymond Goldsmith (1984): An Estimate of the Size and Structure of the National Product of the Early Roman Empire“, Review of Income and Wealth, vol. 30, no. 3, September, pp. 263-288


 
Your statement would carry some weight if the source which you cited actually gave an estimation of ancient Chinese living standard, but it hasn't, so such a casual claim is at best left ignored when one attempts any in depth comparison. According to Angus Maddison, the GDP per capita of Rome and China are roughly comparable with both around 450 USD per year, and since China had a bigger population, Han China's GDP was larger, making up around 26% of the world's GDP in 1 AD compared to around 23% for the Roman Empire(See Maddison, Angus; The World Economy: a millenial perspective). Surpassing Chinese standards of living in 1933 is hardly a feat since China's feudal economic system has been on the decline throughout the 19th century and hit a rock bottom by the early 20th century. In fact according to most estimations, Chinese standard of living is actually lower in 1933 compared to previous periods because of over-population and incessant warfare. Before the Communist take over, it has plummeted to barely above subsistence (Maddison gave a figure of 400 USD, which is less than both the per capita of the Roman Empire and Han China). I also suggest you get a professional estimation of Chinese GDP instead of using a Roman one as a comparison, take a look at estimations done by Wu Hui from China, while its debatable that Han China's GDP per capita is greater than Rome's or not(its food production was certainly greater per capita), Tang China's output was certainly much greater because of the north-south integration and the introduction of rice. In fact according to Wu Hui, Tang China's GDP per capita in the 8th century was probably greater than that of mid 12th- mid 14th century China, and larger than late Qing, which was far larger than most of Republican China, so treating the Chinese economy as some stagnant monolith until 1000 is simply misleading.
 
 
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma

However, since the Roman economy has been for some time now in the process of a favourable reevaluation by modern scholars, the gap to Han China was likely to be even larger than Goldsmith projected.
 
 
I take this as your own assumption, one that seems to be ignorant of the current trend in classical economic studies I might add. But that is only to be expected since you appear to be using sources that are outdated by some 3 decades. Classical Historians since the 90s have been denouncing Roman economic production, opposed to the earlier romantic picture painted by the likes of Gibbon. Its a general concensus of Roman economic historians since the 90s to consider the slave based Roman economy inefficient, barely above subsistence, and had no sophisticated agricultural labor reducing technology to man their fields(what they do not have they made up by using the slaves like animal labor.)  Really, estimations of GDP per capita in such an early time is virtually impossible due to the absence of standard economic coefficients and prices, and results are more properly labeled guestimates than estimates. And because this is so far back, benchmark projections are out of the question. However, GDP per capita in pre-capitalist economic systems do not vary much, so however much one wants to boast of achievements of what Marxists define as slave or feudal based economic systems, one won't get far in attempting to impress a Marxist economic historian. Population, not per capita productivity is the primary indicator of total production in pre-capitalist societies and since Han China most likely had a greater population, it most likely produced more.
Furthermore, estimations of Roman population has moved to the lower end recently, meaning that the total GDP of the Roman Empire was probably even lower than was previously thought. http://ancienthistory.about.com/b/2009/10/05/estimation-of-the-population-of-rome.htm


Edited by honeybee - 17-Jun-2010 at 16:21
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  Quote honeybee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2010 at 18:04
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma

Originally posted by ting

well, first of all, in most of its history, india peninsula was not politically united, while china was.
so, where was "india" 2000 years ago?


True, but on the other hand India had been unified by the Maurya earlier than China was by the Qin.
 
That depends on what your definition of "unification" is. One could easily argue that Zhou China was united and it was certainly much early than the Mauryan state. Although Zhou did not have a centralized bureaucracy over all of its domain, it did have a set of political regulations which kept its fiefs together, collected taxes from them and called upon their military when needed. Leading scholars of Zhou, such as Li Feng are now arguing that the Western Zhou was the first type of proto-state formation in Chinese history(see Feng, Li. 2006. Landscape and Power in Early China: The Crisis and Fall of the Western Zhou 1045-771 BC). Mauryan states' centralization might have been slightly greater than the Western Zhou, but still far less centralized than Qin China. So comparing it to the former might actually be more suitable.
 
India is also a wild card since we have absolutely no real way of estimating its population to any degree of certainly beyond a few centuries ago since they did not keep a census. Much of Maddison's estimation is based on high end calculations assuming that India's population did not change at all from 1 AD to 1000 AD(which he gave uniformly as 80 million), which was doubtful.
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2010 at 06:41
The Roman Empire was more populous than the Han Empire (maximum of 58 mio). Scheidel, Walter, Population and Demography, Online paper, 2006, page 9:

Perhaps most crucially, it likewise raises questions about the size of the empire’s population as a whole: while the ‘low count’ envisions some 60 to 70 million imperial subjects...the ‘high count’ must assume either that the imperial heartland was massively overpopulated relative to its provinces or that the entire empire was much more populous than commonly assumed, presumably in excess of 100 million.


For updating your grasp of the Roman Economy to 21st century level, you might want to consult Cambridge Economic History of the Greco-Roman World from 2008 which has tons of material on its unparalled preindustrial economic power.




Edited by Gun Powder Ma - 22-Jun-2010 at 06:43
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  Quote honeybee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2010 at 16:03
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma

The Roman Empire was more populous than the Han Empire (maximum of 58 mio). Scheidel, Walter, Population and Demography, Online paper, 2006, page 9:

Perhaps most crucially, it likewise raises questions about the size of the empire’s population as a whole: while the ‘low count’ envisions some 60 to 70 million imperial subjects...the ‘high count’ must assume either that the imperial heartland was massively overpopulated relative to its provinces or that the entire empire was much more populous than commonly assumed, presumably in excess of 100 million.


For updating your grasp of the Roman Economy to 21st century level, you might want to consult Cambridge Economic History of the Greco-Roman World from 2008 which has tons of material on its unparalled preindustrial economic power.


 
The Han Empire's population did not peak at 58 million, that was only what was recorded in the census and was the typical classical estimation. Modern estimates for it in sources such as "Zhongguo Renkou Kao" or "Zhongguo Renkou Tongshi" typically gives western Han a population of over 60 million(generally 65 million) while Eastern Han at 70 million or above.
 
As for the Roman population, as I pointed out, recent archeologies are starting to favor the low count more and more, including Scheidel, after examining Roman coinage.
 
"Using a mathematical model to predict population trends based on ancient coin hoards, a UConn biologist and a Stanford University historian have concluded that the population of ancient Rome was smaller than sometimes suggested...
 

Applying a blend of quantitative and empirical testing normally found in the natural sciences rather than relying on traditional historiographical methods of reading and interpreting ancient sources, Turchin and Scheidel developed a simple mathematical model that used coin hoards to project population dynamics before and after 100 BC.

Their conclusion? The model predicts declining population after 100 BC and suggests the vigorous population growth scenario of the “high count” is highly implausible.

“This may seem like an arcane dispute, but it isn’t really, because the difference is so large - 200 percent,” says Scheidel, a professor of humanities and expert on Roman history. “This model is much more consistent with the low count. I’m not sure that by itself it has absolutely proven it, but it certainly provides additional evidence for the low-count hypothesis.”

 
 The typical figure given for the Roman Empire in the 2nd century would be 65 million as given by McEvdy and Jones. In 1 AD the Roman Empire had significantly less people, and probably only had around 45 million. So the Han population was probably slightly higher in population in 150 AD and much higher in 1 AD


Edited by honeybee - 22-Jun-2010 at 16:58
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2010 at 06:55
The population of the Han definitely peaked in 2 AD, the first surviving census recorded. Soon afterwards, the Western Han dynasty was toppled in political turmoils, the Yellow River changed its course and devastated the most productive regions in northern China and subsequent peasant uprisings lead to an economic downward spiral and large population contraction. This has been long common knowledge even down to schoolbook level. Later censuses unsurprisingly show that the Chinese population only reached a comparable size a millennium later, in Song times.

Walter Scheidel is known to be a proponent of the low count of 60-70 mio, which, however, is still higher than Han's 58 mio. You may want to check out his comparison of the monetization degrees of the two empires: he comes to the conclusion that even a single Roman mining province, such as Spain, produced more silver and gold by several orders of magnitude than the Han or for that matter even the Tang and the Song (Scheidel: "The monetary systems of the Han and Roman empires", 2005, p. 31).
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  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jun-2010 at 09:01
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma

You may want to check out his comparison of the monetization degrees of the two empires: he comes to the conclusion that even a single Roman mining province, such as Spain, produced more silver and gold by several orders of magnitude than the Han or for that matter even the Tang and the Song (Scheidel: "The monetary systems of the Han and Roman empires", 2005, p. 31).
 
Surely isnt that largely dependent upon the natural resources of the area itself? It would harldy be a fair compariosn for an area swimming in gold/silver deposits against an area with hardly any?
 
Are the two regions comparable?
 
 
 
(being largely ignorant of the geology of the 2 areas in question)
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  Quote Gun Powder Ma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2010 at 08:29
I read Scheidel up today and the issue becomes clear. While Maddison assumes an even larger Roman GDP per capita than Scheidel, Walter; Friesen, Steven J.: ''The Size of the Economy and the Distribution of Income in the Roman Empire'', ''The Journal of Roman Studies'', Vol. 99 (2009), pp. 61–91, he makes the mistake of basing his calculations on the Roman population size at the death of Augustus in 14 AD (44 mio). However, this is an arbitraty point of time, since the Roman population continued to grew by all accounts until at least the mid-2nd century AD reaching a minimum of 70 mio (higher estimates go up to 100 mio). This mistake has also been committed by a number of other authors in their estimates of the Roman GDP which thus have to revised considerably upward.

In his analysis, Scheidel arrives at a GDP per capita of 610-700 International Dollars (p. 74). Thus, the maximum GDP of the Roman Empire was 610-700 x 70 mio = 42,700,000,000 International Dollars.

This is almost twice as much as Maddison has calculated for his much smaller population base (22,000,000,000)  and 60% higher than the GDP of Han China (26,820,000,000). Since Scheidel goes on to call his estimate "conservative", you can expect even higher estimates of the Roman GDP in the future, particularly if we take a population size of 100 mio as basis. In this case the Imperium would have had a GDP of 70,000,000,000 International Dollars, two and a half times as high as China.

Another recent estimate, E. Lo Cascio and P. Malanima, ‘GDP in pre-modern agrarian economies (1–1820 AD): a revision of the estimates’, Rivista di Storia Economica, even assumes a Roman GDP per capita of 1000 International dollars, while preferring the high count. This would yield 100, 000,000,000 International Dollars, more than four times the Han Chinese GDP.

I consider the case closed, recommend the article, and conclude that the Roman Empire was by a huge margin the world's largest economy for one fourth of the Christian era (1-500 AD).





Edited by Gun Powder Ma - 24-Jun-2010 at 08:30
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  Quote honeybee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2010 at 02:56
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma

The population of the Han definitely peaked in 2 AD, the first surviving census recorded. Soon afterwards, the Western Han dynasty was toppled in political turmoils, the Yellow River changed its course and devastated the most productive regions in northern China and subsequent peasant uprisings lead to an economic downward spiral and large population contraction. This has been long common knowledge even down to schoolbook level. Later censuses unsurprisingly show that the Chinese population only reached a comparable size a millennium later, in Song times.

Walter Scheidel is known to be a proponent of the low count of 60-70 mio, which, however, is still higher than Han's 58 mio. You may want to check out his comparison of the monetization degrees of the two empires: he comes to the conclusion that even a single Roman mining province, such as Spain, produced more silver and gold by several orders of magnitude than the Han or for that matter even the Tang and the Song (Scheidel: "The monetary systems of the Han and Roman empires", 2005, p. 31).
 
The population of Han did not peak in 2 AD(even for the Western Han, it peaked sometimes after 10 AD, since there were no wars before 16 AD to cause doubt) , but around 170 AD, and this was what Chinese historians recently estimates in works such as Zhongguo Renkou Tongshi.  Conventional censuses were never accurate.
The Eastern Han's peak would be over 70 million.
 
Producing metal doesn't mean a thing, it just mean that there are more natural resources in that area. Thats like saying the Han produced 750 Pi of silk a year, that is far more than Roman production, which was zero.
 


Edited by honeybee - 15-Jul-2010 at 03:04
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  Quote honeybee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2010 at 03:01
Originally posted by Gun Powder Ma

I read Scheidel up today and the issue becomes clear. While Maddison assumes an even larger Roman GDP per capita than Scheidel, Walter; Friesen, Steven J.: ''The Size of the Economy and the Distribution of Income in the Roman Empire'', ''The Journal of Roman Studies'', Vol. 99 (2009), pp. 61–91, he makes the mistake of basing his calculations on the Roman population size at the death of Augustus in 14 AD (44 mio). However, this is an arbitraty point of time, since the Roman population continued to grew by all accounts until at least the mid-2nd century AD reaching a minimum of 70 mio (higher estimates go up to 100 mio). This mistake has also been committed by a number of other authors in their estimates of the Roman GDP which thus have to revised considerably upward.

In his analysis, Scheidel arrives at a GDP per capita of 610-700 International Dollars (p. 74). Thus, the maximum GDP of the Roman Empire was 610-700 x 70 mio = 42,700,000,000 International Dollars.

This is almost twice as much as Maddison has calculated for his much smaller population base (22,000,000,000)  and 60% higher than the GDP of Han China (26,820,000,000). Since Scheidel goes on to call his estimate "conservative", you can expect even higher estimates of the Roman GDP in the future, particularly if we take a population size of 100 mio as basis. In this case the Imperium would have had a GDP of 70,000,000,000 International Dollars, two and a half times as high as China.

Another recent estimate, E. Lo Cascio and P. Malanima, ‘GDP in pre-modern agrarian economies (1–1820 AD): a revision of the estimates’, Rivista di Storia Economica, even assumes a Roman GDP per capita of 1000 International dollars, while preferring the high count. This would yield 100, 000,000,000 International Dollars, more than four times the Han Chinese GDP.

I consider the case closed, recommend the article, and conclude that the Roman Empire was by a huge margin the world's largest economy for one fourth of the Christian era (1-500 AD).



 
 
I hardly see the case as closed, especially since the population data you provided was not accurate to begin with. Both the Han and the Roman Empire's population increased by the 2nd century AD, and in all probability the Han probably had a slight lead since the upper end estimate given was around 75 million. In addition to that, GDP per capita estimates for such an early period is virtually impossible to determine due to the lack of sources.
 
You also do realize that there is a range of estimates for Han GDP done in China too right? Estimates for the Han period range from as low as 450 jin of grain a year from Chen to 1000 jin a year by Wu Hui. Maddison on the other hand assumes that Han grain production was only around 540 jin. If we take the higher end estimate for the Han, that means the Han also had twice the GDP per capita estimated by Maddison and would put in on an equal footing with the higher end Roman estimates. For all of these variances, we can see that there isn't enough sources to even begin to get an accurate estimation from. But seen that GDP per capita couldn't have ranged so much for ancient people, and Maddison took note of that a swell, and the population of the two states were more or less equal, the GDP per capita and the total GDP are probably not far off for the two empires. Yet before the Wesern Han collapsed in 21 AD, Chinese GDP has already been leading for the past two and a half centuries since the Qin.
 
However, China probably hasn't led the world in GDP continuously until the Sui and Tang in the 7th century, and there were states, such as unified India which probably outproduced it at certain times. However, for most of the past 2 mellenium since the Qin, China probably led, as long as it was at least half unified.


Edited by honeybee - 15-Jul-2010 at 04:35
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  Quote honeybee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2010 at 03:03

double post



Edited by honeybee - 15-Jul-2010 at 03:04
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Feb-2013 at 11:22
india was united many times before the british rule,infact the name bharat the name of a king who united india for the first time around 6000 bc.after that india was united under the rule of mauryans,guptas and mughal rule.it is true that india was not completely united but some parts remained liberal,the same is valid for all countries including china the china which you see todays was not the one which was there in ancient world.the shape and size was completely different.the present day china includes tibet which is colonised by china.so we can approximately judge the economy.accoding angus maddison a british economist ancient india had the largest economy in the world which shared 33% of the world economy with chian standing second with 26%.
it is flase to say that india and china had the largest economy just because of it's population the wealth shared by india and china is more than entire europe.which had a larger population than ancient india or china.
ancient india was technologically more advanced than china.most of mathematical concepts were learnt by chinese from india and many other things like art of surgery,medicne,martial arts(kung fu originate from india martial kalaripayattu,an indian monk named bodhi dharma or tamo in chienes taught chinese the martial arts) travelled from india to china
refer this website :http://www.esamskriti.com/essay-chapters/India%60s-contribution-to-China-ad-Arab-world-1.aspx
http://jayesh.profitfromprices.com/Contribution.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_economy_of_the_Indian_subcontinent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_and_technology_in_the_Indian_subcontinent
http://www.indianetzone.com/50/imperial_treasury_aurangzeb.htm
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  Quote YiJiun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2014 at 18:18
Perhaps, one way in which to get a sense:

India was totally colonized by Great Britain, but no country can single-handedly colonize the whole of China! Even all the colonial powers, when ganged up against China, couldn't fully colonize her!

That might give you an indication of their relative strengths just before the Industrial Revolution...My take is, China might well have been the supreme power for much of the last 2 thousand years, with interval breaks - it's not in a continuous leading position and of course, India was a power to be reckoned with, of course!

Sometimes, these Western studies have their own political agendas. They first supported China's supremacy, then others did some other analysis in favor of India, to ignite controversy and fuel squabbles between India and China. 

Most likely, both had their fair share of periods of domination for the last 2 thousand years, just like both had their fair share of influence over Southeast Asia...
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  Quote YiJiun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2014 at 19:39
I beg to differ with many of your points...

First of all, we have to understand that geographically, India had an enormous edge, in terms of cross-cultural interactions with other ancient civilizations, over the relatively secluded Chinese empires flung off at the far eastern end of the Eurasian continent surrounded by extremely harsh terrains of Gobi desert (to the northwest of Chinese border), Siberian cold and the Himalayan mountain ranges (to the southwest of Chinese border), for much of China's history.

Secondly, Tibet was part of China since dynastic era and definitely was part of the Qing empire, at least! The map of the Qing empire, at its height, included Mongolia and the entire Tibet, thereby being larger than present-day China!

For the last 2 thousand years, though the shapes and sizes of imperial Chinese maps kept changing, but the main population and racial structures largely remain intact, with the core being the Han Chinese, who has been the overwhelming majority, an integral part of China.

Regarding technological superiority of India, I couldn't beg to differ more! India had the lead being one of the earliest civilizations if not the earliest, but since we were talking about the last 2 thousand years, India's lead was not maintained throughout...In fact, China probably had the technological edge for much of that period!

While India had given the modern world her 'Arabic Numerical system', China had developed her own counting system. Abacus, an ancient Chinese invention, was in effect, a calculator which is still effective until today! While India gave us Buddhism, Tao teachings of Yin and Yang, was invented in China...Modern academic education and examination systems were also an idea developed by Confucius, which was then borrowed by Britain around the 16th, 17th centuries. And, how could we forget Sun Tzu's Art of War, adopted by West Point Academy as part of its compulsory study syllabus. 

Then, we had world revolutionary Chinese inventions and innovations that I can only mention some, because there were simply too many! Obvious ones include seismograph, water control and other agricultural technologies, black powder, rocket, gun, compass, printing, objects that display aerodynamics (kite, helicopter top, hot air balloon, etc..) and parachute, etc. In addition, NASA correctly credited a Chinese as being the first man who thought of and attempted using rockets to travel into space.

Last but not least, below, I have 3 internationally produced documentary films as evidences to support my claims:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DieiMDqByBY&feature=share
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycVGu62gQ0c#t=721
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbwV0ajnUrY&list=PL6C98779470AA8880
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  Quote YiJiun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2014 at 20:08
And blast furnace and cast iron were 2 important Chinese inventions in terms of metallurgy..

Of course, civilization of Mankind as a whole could be what it is today, is simply the fruit of the combined wisdom of different civilizations, accumulated through the long course of history...

Diversity means richness of ideas and the possibility of interaction that can spark ingenuity.
There is no greatest civilization, because the truly wise will realize the more they know, the more there is still to be discovered...Furthermore, each civilization has its own character that specializes in certain fields...

I think the modern world owes a lot to all the ancient civilizations that shared with us, their wisdom in thoughts, ideas and innovations..
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  Quote YiJiun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2014 at 20:46
But the Han empire managed to whip the ass out of the Huns, driving them to eastern Europe where the Roman empires had a really hard time containing and the eastern roman empire even had to appease them. Thus , we had the epic battles between Atilla and the Roman Empires...

Of course, it was anything but an easy feat for the Han empire to drive out the nomadic Huns too and by the end of the Han campaign to destroy the Huns, emperor Wudi suffered huge losses. There were even studies that found the Han population to have been halved by this epic desert campaign in the northwest!

Besides, the Roman empire was also split, with the east being the weaker of the 2 around 400 AD while the Han was a united one! But I can't be sure though because China, towards the end of the Han at around 200 AD, was in great turmoil (many internal conflicts, many of which were with the nomadic tribes to the north)...

My take is, probably China led from 40-180 AD...then from 280-380 AD...China was divided and at wars with itself for much of the other period this time...    
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  Quote YiJiun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2014 at 21:09
Then, the Tang dynasty picked it up again and China led until the Northern Song, at least..Then, the Ming picked it up again until perhaps the 18th century..

One can get an idea of the sophistication of ancient China from these documentary films:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DieiMDqByBY&feature=share
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycVGu62gQ0c#t=721
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbwV0ajnUrY&list=PL6C98779470AA8880
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  Quote YiJiun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2014 at 14:08
This was what I meant by no civilization should consider itself greatest...This is a documentary film on some of the latest study done by international experts on the terracotta army of Qin...Note the surprising twist near the end about Chinese purple, one of only 2 man-made color pigments anywhere in the world before Christ, alongside Egyptian blue...

This is the power of interaction and collaboration among academics, scholars and researchers worldwide...though China has got her own 45T magnet lab now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UJOcsCHyIQ

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