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Lost black civilization in Caucasus?

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lost black civilization in Caucasus?
    Posted: 20-Dec-2010 at 17:38
And, I waited a while before responding to the racist ranting of KK, where he said these words;

"I suggest that person who was born and living around swamps, cotton fields and mosquitoes is more inclined to believe in conspiracy theories about archaeological counterfeits.


Don't forget the Bayous." Yes he posted numerous smiling faces, etc.!

But the outlying view of most of the world is that those of us who live in the South, are mostly "dumn-asses!" is prevalent in the world today!

Perhaps only those people who live in deserts can be considered as intelligent? Or those who live about half of the year under freezing conditions be considered as intelligent?

Perhaps, intelligence exists most every where?           
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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2010 at 00:53
This is not a question of intelligence, but of internal attitude towards proven facts. You're too suspicious of archaeology. It is clear.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2010 at 11:02
Originally posted by opuslola

And, I waited a while before responding to the racist ranting of KK, where he said these words;

"I suggest that person who was born and living around swamps, cotton fields and mosquitoes is more inclined to believe in conspiracy theories about archaeological counterfeits.


Don't forget the Bayous." Yes he posted numerous smiling faces, etc.!

But the outlying view of most of the world is that those of us who live in the South, are mostly "dumn-asses!" is prevalent in the world today!

Perhaps only those people who live in deserts can be considered as intelligent? Or those who live about half of the year under freezing conditions be considered as intelligent?

Perhaps, intelligence exists most every where?           
 
 
Yes Virginia, Intelligence does exist everywhere, sometimes it hides to protect itself.
 
Priam's Treasure was real, it just wasn't Priam's.  The Uof P purchased a hoard that is almost identical to the one Shcliemann found.  6 years later another turned up. It seems as if there was more than one artisan out there and more than one person who could afford baubles such as those.
The "Mask of Agamemnon" it turns out, was a commonly produced ritual item, of which there are now 5.
 
As 50% of my family lives below the Mason D line, I strongly resent any suggestion that I am ridiculing the folks from the south, in any manner, for any reason.
 
 
  
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2010 at 13:23
Same masks are found in ,ancient Paeonia ,today in Macedonia...Those masks are only proof that Danayans  use them in funeral ceremony and are  essential part of there life after death.  
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2010 at 14:59
Can any one of you deny that the discoveriers of Heinrich Schliemann were derided by other "experts!" Can you deny that his supposed discoveries were always found in "secret!", or only accompanied by his wife, etc.?

I reality you cannot! It was the massive belief of the "press" and the people that were probably falsely impressed by the reports, that made Heindrich famous!


Certainly, I know of no new discoveries at the site that have proven beyond a reasonalble doubt as it concerns proving that Troy actually stood upon the same ground! Certainly the later day excavations seem to have proven that the site was a great deal larger than previously thought, but that is about all!

And, I don't believe I directed any anti-Southern words that concerned you my dear sir! I thought it was K-K that made the slighting remarks?

But, perhaps one of you can enlighten me as to any recent (80 years) evidence that can prove that the Troy of the poems was actually located on the same site?

Edited by opuslola - 21-Dec-2010 at 15:02
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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2010 at 17:22
Opuslola, your posts are completely off topic. Тhis theme is about signs of Ethiopians or other black skin population in Antiquity. Your trolling broke my topic, therefore you must be satisfied. Not pretend to be offended. Personally not once I became an object of your "slighting remarks". Let reminds you about your delicious "Bull-Balls-soup" (delicacy of Mississippi?) and other roasting, but as you can verify I do not react as a little girl and I never called you а "rasist". Show a little more sense of humor. Аbility to joke with others requires being able to bear jokes.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2010 at 18:09
I heartedly agree! Perhaps I am a little "thin skinned?", but many of us who reside in the South, become somewhat defensive when it is obviously mentioned!

So, I propose we "let bygones be bygones" and start again?

My regards, and thanks for your above post!

Oh! And I think that I did propose a "dark skinned" element that could have changed society?

Edited by opuslola - 21-Dec-2010 at 18:11
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2010 at 18:15
Red clay, wrote above;

"Priam's Treasure was real, it just wasn't Priam's."

Yes, it was indeed a treasure in "gold", but by that time our intrepid pseudo-archaeologist was a very rich man! There exists no doubt that if he had found a "goldsmith" capable of such good work, that he could have forged the pieces, and our intrepid "digger" could present them to the world as "his discovery!"

The truth is, we don't really know the "truth!"

That is, unless you have evidence to the contrary?

Edited by opuslola - 21-Dec-2010 at 18:16
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2010 at 16:22
And, here on Christmas Day, I still await any "evidence", that is real evidence not based upon mere heresay, or anecdotal remarks!

As a famous old commercial once said; "Show me the meat!"

But, I know the reality, even if you all deny it! There really exists no written evidence that has ever revealed the remains of this mound in the Troad, to have ever been the Troy of "h'Omer!" / "Omar?"

But, he might well have been a "caucasian?"

Perhaps H'omer was really an Armenian?

God bless you all!

Peace on Earth to all!

Edited by opuslola - 25-Dec-2010 at 17:10
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2010 at 10:01
Originally posted by opuslola

Red clay, wrote above;

"Priam's Treasure was real, it just wasn't Priam's."

Yes, it was indeed a treasure in "gold", but by that time our intrepid pseudo-archaeologist was a very rich man! There exists no doubt that if he had found a "goldsmith" capable of such good work, that he could have forged the pieces, and our intrepid "digger" could present them to the world as "his discovery!"

The truth is, we don't really know the "truth!"

That is, unless you have evidence to the contrary?
 
 
 
 
The gold hoard that Schliemann found was real.  He didn't forge it or have it forged.  Since Schliemann there have been several finds of similar nature.  The goldwork of the craftsmen that made these items was easily traced.  It conforms with all other known work of the time.  No, Schliemann didn't find Troy, but he did find a legit. Mycenaean treasure.
 
Opuslola should be interested in this though, There is a British author who thinks that Troy was actually in England and the Trojan war was fought there on the hills of Gog-Magog near Cambridgeshire, UK.  He contends that the Trojan war was fought for control of the Tin mines in Britain.  He further states that, where there is no archaeological evidence of a major war fought at Hisarlik, There is considerable evidence for a Bronze Age battle having taken place at Cambridgeshire.  The man's name is Iman Jacob Wilkins. 
what the man has found makes sense.  Tin was needed to make Bronze.  Bronze being the main that weapons of war were made of.  There are ancient sources that suggest that both copper and tin were in short supply through the Bronze age.  Supposedly the Colossus of Rhoades used up the entire known inventory of Bronze in the Ancient world at that time.  It's been suggested by several historians that the copper needed was found and mined in The region of N. America today known as Michigan and Ohio.
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2010 at 15:12
Thanks red, I am already familar with the book! It was a good read, and I have also read the account that places Troy in Finland! Another good read! http://www.philipcoppens.com/troy.html

Enjoy!

You wrote above;
"Since Schliemann there have been several finds of similar nature. The goldwork of the craftsmen that made these items was easily traced. It conforms with all other known work of the time. No, Schliemann didn't find Troy, but he did find a legit. Mycenaean treasure."

So, you are it seems ready to accept that there has yet to be found any secure connection to the city of Troy of the Illiad, and the ruins found by Heindrich S.! That puts in the good company of most experts, but against the vast majority of the populace!

Your words above suggest that there "have been several finds of (gold) a similar nature!" Just how similar were these pieces, and where were they found and exposed as such!

You state that "The goldwork of the craftsmen that made these items was easily traced." I ask, traced to whom? Perhaps you merely meant to say the "time period" of the finds was considered as similar?


You do know don't you that there is no way to date "gold!" Any good goldworker can, it seems, copy almost any other gold work! It is merely art at that point! And, as well, we do not know just how much ancient gold work had been found prior to H.S! Perhaps the "style" was already known to other gold workers during the lifetime of H.S., and later?

Hoaxes, purchased by well meaning museums /schools (and their experts), have been discovered for many years, and it seems, they continue to be found!

I cannot be sure the pieces we concern ourselves with here are hoaxes or not, and neither can you be sure they are real! "Experts" are proven wrong quite often!

Regards,
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 08:58
Hoaxes do exist.  I'm sure, knowing human nature, that there are some ringers out there.  Everything you wrote is true to a degree.  However, the hoard that the UofP owns was authentic, and considering everyone thought it was the "Trojan Gold" it was examined by everyone and their grandmother.  You'd have to be familiar with the entire collection to understand what I mean when I say there was no doubt this was not a modern hoax.  The clincher for me was the fact that between the time that the first hoard showed and the Russkies finally admitting they had Schieliemans treasure there have been 4 similar finds.  All in the same general region.
Ron, as I have said before, I worked on the display copies.  Therefore I know how convincingly art treasures can be duplicated.  During the 20 years that the display was up, someone attempted to steal items out of it at least 3 times.  And considering that I'm the SOB that discovered a fake in the Phila. Museum of Art's Asian Pottery collection [the item is still there, it's just no longer in a prominent place as it was.] I'm well aware that experts can be fooled.  However, the trojan gold that I worked on was genuine.  It's a shame that there is so much crap associated with it.  If the gold had been found under ordinary circumstance, it would have been a treasure of great importance all by itself.
 
 
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 17:35
Dear red clay! I am not demeaning you or your part in the display, etc.! And, for the same reasons, I just cannot trust H.S. and his constant discoveries of priceless artifacts in places as far apart as "Troy/Hissalrick? and the "Mask of Agamennon?", etc.!

The literature is pretty much clear, that H. S., "hid" these "discoveries" for a reason! I believe his co-workers testified to the same?

As regards the "4 similar" finds, I would suppose that real "science" and datable strata confirmined the finds, but I don't have the evidence of those similar discoveries available to review.
Do you?

If so, and there is no "magic" involved then good!

I am not here to ridicule you, or others, except where circumstances might warrent such questioning! Such were the cases of Schliemann's (sp) discoveries!

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 29-Dec-2010 at 17:36
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2010 at 09:18
Yes HS did hide the treasure.  The simple reason being he didn't have authorization to dig at Hisarlik.  He simply arrived and started digging.  Today he probably would have had his butt thrown in jail.  The Turkish Government spent the next 30 years trying to get it back. 
 
BTW- I'm looking for something from the UofP collection or one of the other finds.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2010 at 10:29
I will be interested in the results of your search!

In the interim, how about this?

http://www.archaeology.org/9907/etc/mask.html

And for the reader who might want to see more about the hoaxes that have already been found, he or she might want to peruse the sites found here?

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS315US315&q=archaeology+hoaxes

And here; http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/history/before_1700

Edited by opuslola - 30-Dec-2010 at 10:46
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2010 at 09:20
This is off topic for this thread, started a new one.  You'll find a link to the full story of the Uof P gold here-http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29029 
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Some hotels offer meals as part of a room and board arrangement. In the United Kingdom, a hotel is required by law to serve food and drinks to all guests within certain stated hours. In Japan, capsule hotels provide a minimized amount of room space and shared facilities.

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