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Duel of Knights With Long Lances
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Duel of Knights With Long Lances
    Posted: 10-Dec-2009 at 13:00


You can read here about lances:

The lance is a relative of the spear but unlike the spear it was not meant for throwing. It is a much heavier weapon and much more durable. It was particularly effective in two different ways. A group of mounted knights could charge with their lances thus creating a very effective way of breaking through enemy lines. IT could also be used as an effective defense against mounted charges.

Knight in Armor, Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York City:

An ancient Sassanid knight at the Taq-e Bostan relief:

A Sarmatian knight:

Several ancient Sassanid bas-reliefs in different places depict scenes of duels between knights on horseback, one of them in Naghsh-e-Rostam:

The oldest and largest one is another one in Firuzabad which shows the fight between Ardeshir, the founder of Sassanid empire, and the Parthian king Artabanus V in 224 AD:

It seems after every victory in battle, Sassanid kings ordered these similar bas-reliefs to be carved!

Double Equestrian victory relief of Sassanid King Hormizd I, battling an opponent most likely to represent King Papak of Armenia:

Double Equestrian victory relief of Bahram II:
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2009 at 16:24
The longest lances ever were probably used by Polish winged hussars. They were up to 6,2 meters long what was allowing to charge through enemy pikemen. Even the pennant on the lance was about 2,5 m long.
 
 
 
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2009 at 00:32
That is really interesting, in the Sassanid period the longest lance was carried by Hazarpat, the word is similar to Hussar, the lance of Hazarpat had a golden head and with Derafsh Kaviani (the royal standard of the Sassanids).
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2009 at 04:32
I forgot to add, to be able to use such long lances, they had to be empty inside, drilled, from the top to the ball to reduce its weight.
 
Such a long lance allowed Polish Winged Hussars to defeat typical european infantry of pikemen/mosqueters fomation.
 


Edited by Mosquito - 11-Dec-2009 at 04:40
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Posts: 1378 		  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2010 at 11:16
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


You can read here about lances:

The lance is a relative of the spear but unlike the spear it was not meant for throwing. It is a much heavier weapon and much more durable. It was particularly effective in two different ways. A group of mounted knights could charge with their lances thus creating a very effective way of breaking through enemy lines. IT could also be used as an effective defense against mounted charges.

Knight in Armor, Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York City:

 

An ancient Sassanid knight at the Taq-e Bostan relief:

 

A Sarmatian knight:

Several ancient Sassanid bas-reliefs in different places depict scenes of duels between knights on horseback, one of them in Naghsh-e-Rostam:

 

The oldest and largest one is another one in Firuzabad which shows the fight between Ardeshir, the founder of Sassanid empire, and the Parthian king Artabanus V in 224 AD:

It seems after every victory in battle, Sassanid kings ordered these similar bas-reliefs to be carved!

 
 
 
 
The second picture is very very interesting. According to most of the books i've read the eastern way to take the lance is portrayed in the first picture: two hands in the lance, the weapon high with the point looking down; this way survived in all the ancient world until 10th century. According to most of the sources in this moment the way to hand the lance changed in Europe: with stirrups very low, which give higher resistance but less maneuver over the horse, the lance is taken well beside with the body, and the lance has now a low position.
In the second picture we can see this, in part. The king have the lance in low position, probably with two hands but i'm not sure, the lance isn't handled exactly in the european way but the idea looks similar with the stirrups very low (if any), the tactic used is without doubt a powerful frontal shock.


Edited by Ikki - 27-Jan-2010 at 11:18
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2010 at 11:40
What is the proof that the engraved scene was that of a battle? Are words to that effect found upon the engraving?

To me, at least, it looks almost exactly how a medieval jousting match would be played out, that is with the dis-mounting of the opposing knight!

Please note that the two adversaries are passing on each others right, and the lance is laid across the neck of the horse! Exactly like it is protrayed in all medieval movies with a jousting tournament involved!

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Posts: 555 		  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2010 at 16:37
Stirrups, its all about the stirrups.

Alows greater control and stability on horseback permitting greater use and massed charge of heavy cavalry.
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Posts: 555 		  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2010 at 16:38
Also on a slight note, is the term 'knight' appropriate, since we are also referencing societies/cultures here where knighthood and all that entaisl isnt really appropriates.

Perhaps, cavalry, heavy cavalry, lancers etc.


Just a side thought
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2010 at 17:34
I feel it was all related? Mounted horse, were always set apart from the rest of the walking soldiers!

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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Nov-2011 at 20:11

Jousting continued well into the 17th century, though it began an irreversible decline after the French king was accidentally killed in the 1550s
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