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My Imperial Blood Theory
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bejee44 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1 		  Quote bejee44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: My Imperial Blood Theory
    Posted: 22-Oct-2009 at 16:15
I think there is a very high chance I am a descendant of a VERY, VERY distant japanese {or chinese for that matter} emperor. Okay, so bear with me: I know that Chinese history goes back very far. So, logically, I am very likely to have a Chinese emperor in my lineage. But what about Japanese Imperial blood? well, from the 4th to 9th centuries AD, we are all descended from a very high percentage of the world's population. even though Japan was well isolated in later parts in its history, there were still the "spreading" of genes, espically among the nobles and imperials, who often kept concubines and mistresses. it is a well know fact that the Japanese imperial house is the longest continuing monarchy on earth. from 660 BC {although this is only triditional dating} to the present. So, what do you think? I may very may be of imperial descent!   
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Posts: 1021 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2009 at 15:56
Originally posted by bejee44

So, what do you think? I may very may be of imperial descent!   
I would agree with the Chinese possibility, but not the Japanese (unless you are of Japanese descent).  The Japanese have been genetically very isolated since neolithic times.  Though as you mentioned, other ethnicities were brought to the Islands, the number of these people was very small.  
 
Unlike Europeans, most East Asians have not mixed with each other. Koreans are also genetically very isolated and their level of isolation maybe to the same level as the Japanese. Also, I believe that the Vietnamese are also genetically very isolated though I do not have any specific knowledge to support this.
 
China is an exception and this maybe more do to with geography rather than a Chinese social acceptance of ethnic inter marriage. Cambodia seems to be the only East Asian country where there has been large scale inter marriage between ethnic groups.
 
Everybody on the planet is related, but some people have far more diverse relatives than others.  In the end, I do not think that an Asian non Japanese is going to have much more Japanese genetic material than a European Caucasoid.  


Edited by Cryptic - 24-Oct-2009 at 16:53
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opuslola View Drop Down
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Posts: 277 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2009 at 16:14
Cryptic, I also claim possible kinship to the King of Siam!, as well as the king of the Druids, as well as relationship to the "Pope of Grenwich Village!" Laugh!

Bejee44, has asked a question that not only be not answered, but in reality should not have been responded to. But you are a nice guy, and gave him / her the best you could give!

Bravo
Ron Hughes

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"History, a distillation of rumour."
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red clay View Drop Down
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Posts: 3097 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2009 at 11:13
Some 15 million Mongols have a direct genetic link to Genghis Kahn, so it's a possibility.
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Posts: 1021 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2009 at 14:57
Originally posted by red clay

Some 15 million Mongols have a direct genetic link to Genghis Kahn, so it's a possibility.
 
In regards to genetics, comparing Mongols to Japanese is comparing apples to oranges. Mongols were nomadic who both conquered and were assimilated a large number of peoples over a broad area of the world. The Japanese have been very isolated on their islands since neolithic times. 
 
Had the planned Mongol invasions of 1274 and 1281 succeeded and Japan was brought under Mongol control, the Japanese genetic lineage would be vastly different today.  As it turned out, Kamikaze winds wrecked the invasion fleet and Genghis Khan's lineage was not introduced to Japan.
 
In the end, a non Japanese Asiatic is only very marginally more likely to have a Japanese imperial blood line than a European Caucasoid. In contrast, a European is far more likely to have an Imperial Ottoman link than say a Chinese is to have a Japanese link.


Edited by Cryptic - 26-Oct-2009 at 15:11
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Posts: 3395 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2009 at 16:58
Ok I will claim Nero as my ancestor

or maybe Napoleon

Well then, brothers and fellow citizens and soldiers, remember this in order that your memorial, your fame and freedom will be eternal.
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Posts: 40 		  Quote SNK_1408 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2009 at 20:09
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by red clay

Some 15 million Mongols have a direct genetic link to Genghis Kahn, so it's a possibility.
 Had the planned Mongol invasions of 1274 and 1281 succeeded and Japan was brought under Mongol control, the Japanese genetic lineage would be vastly different today.  As it turned out, Kamikaze winds wrecked the invasion fleet and Genghis Khan's lineage was not introduced to Japan.


Even if the planned invasion became success, today's Japanese won't be so different as most of these supporting troops of Mongol Invasion came from Korean peninsula.

May be foreign Y-DNA would have been different but mt-DNA of Japanese would remain same.
mt-DNA of Koreans and Japanese are very similar.

If anyone of you believe you might be royalty ancestral lineage then all you need to do is trace your aristocrat roots. If you can't find out your aristocrat roots then you have little chance being having royalty lineage.

No body located body of Genghis Khan, so how do they know about Genghis Khan's DNA?



Edited by SNK_1408 - 26-Oct-2009 at 20:12
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Posts: 1021 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2009 at 08:36
Originally posted by SNK_1408


No body located body of Genghis Khan, so how do they know about Genghis Khan's DNA?
I dont think they do.  I beleive that the DNA has been traced back to the early mongol clans and is thus attributed to Genghis Khan in popular folklore. Though the DNA may or may not be Genghis Khan's per se, it does demonstrate the vast expansion of the Mongol people.


Edited by Cryptic - 27-Oct-2009 at 13:44
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Posts: 3097 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2009 at 12:09
No, they haven't found his body.  What they have is a little beyond folklore however.
 
 

Genghis Khan a Prolific Lover, DNA Data Implies

Hillary Mayell
for National Geographic News
February 14, 2003
 
Genghis Khan, the fearsome Mongolian warrior of the 13th century, may have done more than rule the largest empire in the world; according to a recently published genetic study, he may have helped populate it too.

An international group of geneticists studying Y-chromosome data have found that nearly 8 percent of the men living in the region of the former Mongol empire carry y-chromosomes that are nearly identical. That translates to 0.5 percent of the male population in the world, or roughly 16 million descendants living today.

The spread of the chromosome could be the result of natural selection, in which an extremely fit individual manages to pass on some sort of biological advantage. The authors think this scenario is unlikely. They suggest that the unique set of circumstances surrounding the establishment of the Mongol empire led to the spread.



"This is a clear example that culture plays a very big role in patterns of genetic variation and diversity in human populations," said geneticist Spencer Wells, one of the 23 co-authors of the paper. "It's the first documented case when human culture has caused a single genetic lineage to increase to such an enormous extent in just a few hundred years."

Legacy of Genghis Khan

To have such a startling impact on a population required a special set of circumstances, all of which are met by Genghis Khan and his male relatives, the authors note in the study published in the American Journal of Human Genetics.

Khan's empire at the time of his death extended across Asia, from the Pacific Ocean to the Caspian Sea. His military conquests were frequently characterized by the wholesale slaughter of the vanquished. His descendants extended the empire and maintained power in the region for several hundred years, in civilizations in which harems and concubines were the norm. And the males were markedly prolific.

Khan's eldest son, Tushi, is reported to have had 40 sons. Documents written during or just after Khan's reign say that after a conquest, looting, pillaging, and rape were the spoils of war for all soldiers, but that Khan got first pick of the beautiful women. His grandson, Kubilai Khan, who established the Yuan Dynasty in China, had 22 legitimate sons, and was reported to have added 30 virgins to his harem each year.

"The historically documented events accompanying the establishment of the Mongol empire would have contributed directly to the spread of this lineage," the authors conclude.

Tracking the Y-Chromosome

The study looked at blood samples collected over a period of ten years from more than 40 populations living in and around the former Mongol empire.

Geneticists use the Y-chromosome in population studies such as this because it doesn't recombine as other parts of the genome do. When it comes to eye color, or height, or resistance or susceptibility to particular diseases, each parent contributes half of a child's DNA, which join together to form a new genetic combination.

The Y-chromosome is passed on as a chunk of DNA from father to son, basically unchanged through generations except for random mutations.

These random mutations, which happen naturally and are usually harmless, are called markers. Once the markers have been identified, geneticists can go back in time and trace them to the point at which they first occurred, defining a unique lineage of descent.

In this particular instance, the lineage originated 1,000 years ago. The authors aren't saying that the genetic mutations defining the lineage originated with Khan, who was born around 1162; they are more likely to have been passed on to him by a great great grandfather.

The lineage was found in only one population outside of the former Mongolian empire, in Pakistan.

"The Hazaras [of Pakistan] gave us our first clue to the connection with Genghis Khan," said Wells. "They have a long oral tradition that says they're his direct descendants."

Of course, the connection to Genghis Khan will never be a certainty unless his grave is found and his DNA could be extracted. Until then, geneticists will continue to seek out isolated populations in the hope of unraveling the mysteries of geographic origin and relatedness told by our genes.
 
© 1996-2008 National Geographic Society.
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SNK_1408 View Drop Down
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Posts: 40 		  Quote SNK_1408 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2009 at 20:51
I hardly believe researchers actually used Genghis's DNA to profile people of the areas where Mongol army have roamed. These East Asian looking people at central asia probably came from Mongolian soldiers & warriors that came with Genghis's generals.  What researchers did was used current Mongolian Y-DNA stream against to other people. Please note, inter-racial marriages was unthinkable back in old times, even there was some it was very minimal. Also, people likely to find their partner from local areas and this is how clans/tribes was created. It's only now we saw many inter-racial marriages because of immigration.
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Posts: 1021 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2009 at 11:53
Originally posted by SNK_1408

. Please note, inter-racial marriages was unthinkable back in old times, even there was some it was very minimal. Also, people likely to find their partner from local areas and this is how clans/tribes was created. It's only now we saw many inter-racial marriages because of immigration.
I agree that inter racial marriage is far more common know, but some cultures accepted it far more readily, even centuries ago.
 
For example, modern Latin America has been a racially mixed society since the 1500s. In Europe intermarriae was more rare, but large scale intermmariage did occur over the centuries. For  example: Poland (Slavic with Germanic), Hungary (Asiatic with Central European),  Finland (Scandanavian with Asiatic), Croatia (possible Persian with Slavic). Balkans (Turkic with Slavic). Most Celtic people are no longer a distinct ethnic group due to intermarriage 
 
This is in contrast to East Asia where there has been practically no intermarriage in Japan and Korea. I am pretty sure that Vietnam has expreienced very little intermarriage as well.  China has experienced large scale intermarriage, but I think this is due far more to geography rather than a social tolerance for the concept amongst the Chinese.
 
I would never characterize medieval Europe as "enlightned"regarding ethnic inter marriage, but they seem to have been less social restriction in Europe than in East Asia.
 
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Posts: 463 		  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2009 at 19:50
Originally posted by Cryptic

I agree that inter racial marriage is far more common know, but some cultures accepted it far more readily, even centuries ago.
 
 I am pretty sure that Vietnam has expreienced very little intermarriage as well. 
When looking at proliferation of genes, the cause is hardly restricted to inter-racial marriages, especially when there're wars and invasions.  Also, intermixing of genes occur through other ways such as prostitutions, casual affairs, or non-official relationships.
 
Originally posted by Cryptic

This is in contrast to East Asia where there has been practically no intermarriage in Japan and Korea.
Even the relatively isolated Japan and Korea had their share of inter-racial mixings.
North of Japan, there were mixing of blood between Ainus and Yamato people, though not widespread.  There were Ainus who assimilated to the Yamato society, serving as warriors.  Then there were Ainu women taken as concubines by the daimyos.
 
South of Japan, there were extensive maritime interaction with people from present day Korea, Taiwan, coastal China, Ryukus etc.
 
Zheng Cheng Gong, aka Koxinga, was one who reflected such a mixed heritage.
 
During 13th century, members of the deposed royal family of the Ly Dynasty in Vietnam fled and settled in Korea.
 
Korea was never isolated, having been invaded by nomadic tribes north of the peninsula several times.  During the Yuan Dynasty, there were intermixing with the Mongols, including the Korean kings marrying Mongol princesses.  By then, the Mongols themselves had conquered vast territories, and the Mongols had taken women from all over their empire.
 
North Vietnam had for a thousand years or so been part of empires based in China, while South Vietnam were closer to present day Laos, Cambodia etc.  The ancient Funan kingdom based in Mekong river was a maritime power that received heavy Indian influences, which included trading and intermixing with people from India.
 
Japan, Korea and Vietnam are only superficially homogenous.  They may be less genetically diversed compared to others, but they are by no means ethnically pure.
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Posts: 1021 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Oct-2009 at 13:24
Originally posted by snowybeagle

North of Japan, there were mixing of blood between Ainus and Yamato people, though not widespread.  There were Ainus who assimilated to the Yamato society, serving as warriors.  Then there were Ainu women taken as concubines by the daimyos.
These Ainu were probably Emishi (an extinct group related to modern Ainu).  I think modern Ainu are relatively recent arrivals to Hokkiado via the Sakkahlin Islands.
 
Modern Japanese are a mixture of two Asiatic groups whic arrived in the Islands during Neolithic times.  One group was apparently hunter gathers from Siberia (or possibly present day Korea). The other group, which introduced advanced rice based agriculture originated in present day Vietnam.
The third group is the Emeishi (sp), a Australoid group on Northeren Honshu. They were gradually  assimilated by the Asiatic Japanese and disappeared as an ethnic group by the early middle ages.  
Originally posted by snowybeagle

Japan, Korea and Vietnam are only superficially homogenous.  They may be less genetically diversed compared to others, but they are by no means ethnically pure.
Agreed. The only "pure" people on earth are probably the Addaman Islanders and the now extinct Tasmanian Aborigones. Other contenders maybe deep Amazonian Amerindian indians. Plateau Tibetans may well be the most genetically isolated people whose population number in the millions. For large developed nations with tens of millions of people Japan, Korea and Vietnam are far less genetically diverse than say Europeans, Indians, or Middle Easterners.  


Edited by Cryptic - 29-Oct-2009 at 13:48
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Posts: 1177 		  Quote babyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Nov-2009 at 08:44
Originally posted by red clay

Some 15 million Mongols have a direct genetic link to Genghis Kahn, so it's a possibility.


   Are there even 15 million Mongols?
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