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Tur/Thor, god of Tundar/Thunder & Turkic Tanri

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tur/Thor, god of Tundar/Thunder & Turkic Tanri
    Posted: 10-Oct-2009 at 13:10

As you read here: http://www.hunmagyar.org/turan/tatar/turk.html Ancient Turks believed that Great Sky God Tanri/Tengri controlled Thunder and Lightning. By His order deity Thunder and Lightning punished malicious forces ...

And this one: http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Thor_(Earth-311) says "Thor is the Norse god of Thunder and Lightning."

and about Thunder: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Thunder From Old English þunor, from Proto-Germanic *þunara < *þen, from Proto-Indo-European *(s)ten(ə)- (to thunder). Compare Persian تندر (tondar).
 
 
thunder Look up thunder at Dictionary.com
O.E. þunor, from P.Gmc. *thunraz (cf. O.N. þorr, O.Fris. thuner, M.Du. donre, Du. donder, O.H.G. donar, Ger. Donner "thunder"), from PIE *(s)tene- "to resound, thunder" (cf. Skt. tanayitnuh "thundering," Pers. tundar "thunder," L. tonare "to thunder").
 
Therefore Turkic tanri, Proto-Germanic thunra, Latin tonare and etc have all a same origin which means "thunder" but the important point is about Tur/Thor.
 
 
Thor Look up Thor at Dictionary.com
Odin's eldest son, strongest of the gods though not the wisest, c.1020, from O.N. Þorr, lit. "thunder," from *þunroz, related to O.E. þunor (see thunder).
 
And as you read here: http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/bashiri/Farr/shahnamecharacters.html According to Dehkhoda and Anandraj, "Tur is the eldest son of Fereydun" and of course not the wisest.
 
Balami (946-973), the 10th century Persian historian says:
 
"Fereydun divided the world amongst his three sons. The area of Turkistan and Khazar and Chinistan and the east were given to Tuj (Turaj, Middle Persian Tuzh) and he gave him the title Faghfur (from Persian Bagh Pur, son of the God). The lands of Iraq, Basra, Baghdad, Waset, Persia, Sind, Hind (India) and Yemen were given to Iraj and his territory was designated as Iranshahr. And the land of West, Rome, Saqlab (land of Slavs), Azerbaijan and Arran and Karaj were all given to Salm (Sarmat) and his title was Kaiser."
 
It is very possible that the names of Turk and Tajik come from Tur/Tuj + "-ik/-ic" suffix.


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 10-Oct-2009 at 13:19
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2009 at 18:35
Would you say that Santa Claus' reindeer were named for the above? That is two of his reported reindeer were named "Donner" / "Donder" and "Blitzen" / "Blixen, I think the spelling is correct or very close. Do think that "Biltzen" / "Blixen" would also be "lightning?" also? If so how do these words conncect with IndoEuropean or Persian, etc.?

please see; http://german.about.com/library/blgermyth05.htm

""Dunder" and "Blixem"? You've always heard "Donner" and "Blitzen," right? The former were Dutch names written into the poem by Livingston. Only in later versions, modified by Moore in 1844, were the two names changed to German: Donder (close to Donner, thunder) and Blitzen (lightning), to better rhyme with "Vixen." Finally, for some reason, in the song “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” Marks turned "Donder" into "Donner." Whether Marks made the change because he knew German or because it just sounded better is uncertain.* In any event, there is certainly some logic in using German Donner and Blitzen (thunder and lightning) for the names. Since 1950 or so, the two reindeer names have been Donner and Blitzen in both the “Rudolph” song and the “Visit” poem."
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2009 at 13:28
interesting mention, I think the second one, Blitzen, relates to Semitic peoples. The word is similar Balthazar the second Magi who attended Christ's birth, as you read here the word has an Aramaic or Babylonian origin "Baal tas-assar" and means ‘may Baal preserve his life’.
 
About Baal, a major Semitic god: http://www.pantheon.org/articles/b/baal.html "Baal is the god of rain, thunder, and lightening. "
 
That is also similar to Balder, the second son of Odin (after Thor), As I said in this thread, the name of one of Odin's sons indicates the meaning of Odin's own name. Balder, for whose death such lamentations were made, seems evidently just the Chaldee form of Baal-zer, "The seed of Baal;" ...
 
And as you read here: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Balder in Analogues section, the most similar story to Balder can be found in ancient Persian mythology.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2009 at 14:58
About Persian Fereydun, I have read different things, one possible thing is that it is a compund word of Odin and his wife Freya, the interesting thing is that the Persian word for "Friday" is Odina/Adineh -> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Friday (Translations), as you read here in Avesta:
 
3. The third millennium commenced. When Faridoon allotted the dominions, they, Salm and Tuj, killed Airij, and destroyed his children and grandchildren. 4. In this millennium, Manuschihr was born and sought the revenge of Airij. 5. Then Frasiyav came, vanquished Manuschihr with the Iranians at Mount Patashkhvar, destroyed them with disease, want, and much pestilence, and killed Manuschihr's sons Frya and Notar, till Iranshahr was taken from Frasiyav by another generation. 6. And when Manuschihr had passed away, Frasiyav came again, perpetrated much disintegration and desolation in Iranshahr, and withheld the rains from Iranshahr, till Uzava son of Tumaspa came, vanquished Frasiyav, and produced the rain which they called “the new rain."
 
11. Of Faridoon three sons were born, Salm, Tuj, and Airij; and of Airij two sons and a daughter were born. 12. The twin sons were Vanitar and Anastob by name, and the daughter's name was Guza. 13. Salm and Tuj killed Airij, his children, and grandchildren all; and Faridoon kept [that] daughter in concealment. Of that daughter a daughter was born. They had information of it; they killed the mother, and Faridoon concealed [all] those daughters up to ten generations when Manush-i khvarshet-pa-vini was born of his mother. [For as soon as he was born] the light of the sun fell upon his nose. 14. From Manush and his sister was Manush-khvarnar, and from Manushkhvarnar [and his sister] was Manushchihr born, who killed Salm and Tuj, and sought the vengeance of Airij. 15. Of Manushchihr were Frya, Notar, and Durasrob born. 16. Just as Manuschihr son of Manushkhvarnar son of Manuskhvarnak, whose mother was Guza daughter of Aira daughter of Thrita daughter of Bita daughter of Frazusha daughter of Zusha daughter of Fraguza daughter of Guza daughter of Airij son of Faridoon.
 
Germanic and Iranian stories seem to be very similar to each other, Iranian Manush could be the same Germanic Mannus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannus as you read both of them had a son named Frya/Frey, Iranian Vanitar is similar to Old Norse Vanir, Iranian Notar, another son of Manush, and Old Norse Njordr are similar too, ...


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 12-Oct-2009 at 15:05
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2009 at 16:50
So Cyrus, may we well say that St. Klaus, did not really travel via reindeer but rather by "steeds!" They were, it seems the "steeds" of a warrior, or the cavalry of an army, thus they were named "Thunder and Ligntning" as mentioned above, and "Dasher", IE. either "quick" or "crushing?", or even "Dashing?", and "Prancing", IE,"proud", a "show off", etc., and "Cupid", a force of not love but of "arrows?", and of course "Comet", the "flashing" or the "portent of distruction?", etc., and of course the "Vixen", which might well describe a mare, who was smart and sly like a "Fox?", etc.

It seems to me merely describe a team of horses (or Oxen?), maybe tied to a war wagon?, or those pulling the "Chariot of Klaus?"

Edited by opuslola - 03-Nov-2009 at 20:38
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2009 at 20:40
You know, I even forgot to mention that "Thor" is also the basis for a day of the week we now calle "Thurs-day", IE, "Thor's-day!"

Maybe someone can name the origin of the other days of the Germanic / English week?
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2010 at 09:41
Sonntag (Sunday) from Sonn (Sun).
 
Montag (Monday) from Mon (Moon).
 
Wodentag (Wednesday) from Woden (Odin). i.e. Wodentag = Odin's day.
 
Thorstag = Thor's day -> Thursday
 
Freytag = Frey's day -> Friday
 
All from the German class I did during uni days.
 
Sorry, can't recall the derivation of Dinnstag (Tuesday).
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2010 at 09:49
About Thor, the Biblical historians posit that he was originally Tiras a.ka. Tursha (Hebrew) a.k.a. Turk (Turkish) a.k.a. Teresh (Egyptian) a.k.a. Tulqarem (Arabic) a.k.a. Tilgarimmu (Assyrian).
 
i.e. he was the Tiras, the youngest son of Japhet (Yafeth) son of Noah (Nuh). Tiras, they also believe, was the eponymous ancestor of the Thracians.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2010 at 14:35
Tuesday = Tewsday = Tiwsday

As Wikipedia says; "The name Tuesday derives from the Old English "Tiwesdæg" and literally means "Tiw's Day"[1]. Tiw is the Old English form of the Proto-Germanic god *Tîwaz, or Týr in Norse, a god of war and law[2][3]. In the Indic languages of Pali and Sanskrit, as well as in Thailand, the name of the day is taken from Angaraka ('one who is red in colour')[4] a style (manner of address) for Mangala, the god of war, and for Mars, the red planet."
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  Quote bai_ulgen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2010 at 14:33
Turkic & Mongolian word "Tangri"/"Tengri" comes from the stem "Tian"/"Tien" plus superlative suffix "ri".  
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2010 at 00:02
bai_ulgen

Are you agreeing with my post?
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  Quote bai_ulgen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2010 at 08:46
Uh... which part exactly? 
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2010 at 11:39
Originally posted by bai_ulgen

Turkic & Mongolian word "Tangri"/"Tengri" comes from the stem "Tian"/"Tien" plus superlative suffix "ri". 

I think Chinese Tian also comes from Tengri, it is even said about one of the oldest known Gods, Sumerian Dingir: http://www.astroset.com/bireysel_gelisim/ancient/a22.htm Dingir comes from the Central Asiatic Ting-ri or Tengri, still existing as Tanrı in Turkish.
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  Quote bai_ulgen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2010 at 12:02

Yes, Chinese concept "Tian" has its root in Turks & Mongols old religion. It's not only about Turkish: Turkmen "Taňri", old Bulgar "Taňra", Kyrgiz "Teňer", Mongolian "Teňgir".  

Speaking of Sumerian, there are lots of similarities in between their language and Altaic family.



Edited by bai_ulgen - 23-Oct-2010 at 12:04
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2012 at 09:39
Both the Vikings and ancient Turks may have been descended from the same people who lived in central Russia. How old is the Thor cult?
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2012 at 16:33
As old as the Roman occupation of regions that would become known as germania. Tacitus discusses him. Attributes him to the pantheon of the Suebi. Equates him with that old rascal Hercules. Truth is not much is known about those gods prior to the Roman period. But there are countless versions of who what where since then.
 
 
If ya can ever find it peruse Deutsche Mythologie.
 
 
The old fairy tale master Grimm wrote it. Still considered a classic.
 
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2012 at 17:05
Another sky god: Teshub/ Taru / Tarhunta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teshub
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2012 at 13:29
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

As old as the Roman occupation of regions that would become known as germania. Tacitus discusses him. Attributes him to the pantheon of the Suebi. Equates him with that old rascal Hercules. Truth is not much is known about those gods prior to the Roman period. But there are countless versions of who what where since then.
 
 
If ya can ever find it peruse Deutsche Mythologie.
 
 
The old fairy tale master Grimm wrote it. Still considered a classic.
 

I guess the Suebi were based in modern-day Swabia, part of eastern Germany. Perhaps their ancestors were Turks who migrated north?
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2012 at 14:00
Here's a link on the Suebi. http://ucla.academia.edu/JorgeArias/Papers/1584561/Identity_and_Interaction_the_Suevi_and_the_Hispano-Romans
 
 
And anythings possible as all that immigration of proto-celts and germans remains hotly contested. But from antiquity Tacitus is yer man. The confusion is also generated as they were not simply id' as a single nation but a polyglot of tribes and clans.
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  Quote yomud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2012 at 16:59
what is the yer mean ? im turkmen and i see similarity in german and turkmen language
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