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Egyptian Origin of Macedonians and Alexander

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Egyptian Origin of Macedonians and Alexander
    Posted: 07-Oct-2009 at 08:10

About 2300 years ago someone named Alexander of Macedon conquered the Persian empire, If we want to know who he was and where he came from then we should read the historical sources of both sides, ancient Persian sources, like Arda Viraf Namag and Denkart, say that Alexander was an Egyptian and came from Egypt, the important point is about the name of Egypt, as you probably know Egyptians themselves, like ancient Persians and then Arabs, call their country Masr, "c/k" to "s" is one of the most important sound changes in the Indo-European language, so Persian is said to be a Satem but Greek is a Centum language, for this reason the Greek name of "Masr" could be "Makros":

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Macedonia

Macedonia Look up Macedonia at Dictionary.com
from L. Macedonius "Macedonian," from Gk. Makedones, lit. "highlanders" or "the tall ones," related to makednos "long, tall," makros "long, large" (see macro-).
 
so where was Macedonia?
 
 
Macedonia, in old Egyptian inscriptions "Mage donia" which in Arabic became to be pronounced "Magduniye" was important centre of Mithraism in northern Africa. Yaghut Hamudi, traveller, geographer and historian in his book "Majamal baladan" says "Macedonia is the name of Egypt in the Greek language". Ibn Al Faghih Ahmad Hamedani 4th Arabic century geographer and historian quoting Ibn Yasar says,-" Macedonia is Egyptian territory". Al Moghadasi 5th Islamic century geographer in "Hosn Al Taghasim", Ibn Al khardazbeh in Dalmask and Almamalek", Masoudi in the book of Moruj Alzahb and many others confirm that in those days Macedonia was Egyptian territory. With the exception of early Islamic historians and the knowledgeable, Ibn Maghta, Tabari and Dinvari have called Alexander in their writings Iranian.
 
Of course, as you read here about "Sonia Bakaric and James Hider, Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia's Pharaonic past, Agence France-Presse, Issue of 17 April 2001", there could be really some connections between ancient Egyptians and Macedonians of FYROM.
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  Quote Messopotamian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2009 at 08:15
interesting...
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  Quote machaon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2009 at 05:57
Not interesting.... 
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2009 at 07:47
Whether interesting or not interesting, this is a possible hypothesis.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2009 at 14:37
Cyrus, I was surprised and delighted when I read your posting! It takes a special person to be able to open one's mind to that extent!

If you don't mind, I have considered much the same events and personages from a somewhat differing viewpoint! It is some what long and I don't know just how well a Word Perfect document will transfer, but here goes!

Please take some of your valuable time to read it and comment about it?

MACC-ABEANS / MAKK-ABEANS - MACABBEANS / MAKABBEANS / HASMONEANS /ABBASIDS / CHASSIDS / HASSIDS / ASSASSINS / MACEDONIANS / MUHAMMADANS / SADDUCEES / PHARISEES?– could they all be related?
(Maybe the double consonants mean something?)

Maccabeans; dissected “Mac(c)-abeans”, or “Mac-cabe-ans”, or Macca-beans”, etc.;

Mac = "son of or from the family of", the same as "O" in O'Hare, “Mac” as in Macbeth, the “son” in Johnson, the “s” or “es” in Hughs or Hughes, the “ben” in ben Hur, etc.

Thus; Mac-Abean / Abbean or? Abbe', which is "a member of a French Catholic secular clergy."
You know what an Abbey is! As well as Abbots, etc. Thus this word could mean, a “son of the Abbot?”, or “born in the abbey?” We do realize that Abbots at one time were allowed to marry and have children, even Popes did! Celibacy is a relatively new invention in the Catholic world! Also bastard children were taken into these centers to be raised, as well as certain royal family members. The Abbeys may have also been the home to many of the “castrati!”

Very close to the words Abbot and Abbey (due to my contention that double consonants mean something, or at least, may provide us a clue.) are;

“The Abbasid's” = These were reportedly Islamic Calif's (thus in the current scheme after 600 AD) who were descendants of the Uncle of Mohammed (can we assume that the uncle of Muhammad was named Abbas?, or Abba?), thus Abbasid or Abbassid, designated as Muhammad’s family, Mu-Hammad / (M)abbas / abbeus / abbe!! An Abbe is a place for the religious zealots or the pious. Thus Abbasid family had to be of “pious” background since they were relatives of the Prophet = Abbot! = father = the leader of the group, of the “pious” who could be the zealots of Islam.

Could there be some relationship with the below?

Judas Maccabeus (Makkabeus?) was also known as the "Hammerer" since Makkabee / Maccabee, in Hebrew, supposedly means “hammer” or “hammerer.”, or maybe more correctly “mace!?” We knowHow does this work?

The Maccabeans / Makkabeans, were also known as the HASMONEAN'S, from the originator of the revolution. His name was HASMON! / (H)- Asmon! (If the French can vocally drop the “h” from words why cannot I drop it totally? I feel that letters not pronounced are many times omitted in other languages!).
Hasmon / Asmon reportedly destroyed a sacred temple of the ruling elite in Israel. Fearing retribution, Hasmon / Asmon and his family removed themselves from the area and hid in the hills. They were supported, in the “realm” by the “pious”, or true to the Law “Jews?” of the area. These “pious” Jews were called the “Chasidim”. It is important to understand that the word Chasidim is a perfectly acceptable transliteration of the word “Chasid”, to the word “Hasid” and “Chasidim to Hasidim”, or possibly “asidim?”. Please read the story of this revolution for more edification.

Look in your dictionary and find the words beginning with Ha, He, Ho, Hi, etc., drop the “H”, and see what you find!! Do the same with words beginning with “Ch”!, and “K”!!

Has-mon-eans or, (mon=man?)
has-mon-archian? or, (look up “ark” and “arc” and “arch” for more connections.)
has-monastic-ism? or, (monastery or monastic life?)
has-mohammed-an's. (obvious!)

Could HAS(S) = the Hasid? of the “Hassidic”, a group of holy men or pious men? Thus “Has=Hassid and mon=man, thus a “Holy man.”. Or, Chassid, which could equal “chaste”?, certainly a chaste person could be considered pious! Thus a “Chaste / Pious - man.”

Could “HAS” really mean House, like the German pronunciation “Haus”? Another word for a “Houseman”/ "Huscarl", is “Major Domo!” "Huscarl / Housecarl" or even "Hous-karl?" might well be from "Karlo / Carlo / Karol", and "Karol / Carlo, etc." is the base for our word "Charles", which can easily mean "Free!" Thus possibly describe a "Freeman / Friesman?" Could it mean “from the house of a Freeman?”

Could HAS = Hashim / Hushim / (h)Shuan, who were the Sons of Dan?, as in the “house of?”

Note from above that the ABBASID's were royalty claiming descent from Mohammed, or from the "House of Muhammad"! The House of the Prophet? Number one with God!

More fun;

Could MACC-ABEAN / MAKK-A-BE-AN, just be a hidden word or a foreign translation of MACE-DON-IAN / MAKE-DON-IAN (Mace-donean/donian?, or Mak(e)-don-ean/donian? The word "Don" should be familar as a title of Spanish warriors or royalty, IE, "Don Pedro", etc.

Of course we could write this as “Makk-adonian”. Taking this word apart you could claim;
"Make-“Donian”, equals the “Doni”, or the “A-doni?” and:

“MACE” = a mallet or hammer, see “MAK(e)”. If “Makk-adon-ian” is used, then we have to look at the word “adon” or “adoni”, which is regularly used in the Bible to mean “Lord.”, or “God.”

Thus we could venture that Macedonian (with Macc /Makk standing for “son of”, could actually mean, Son of God, Son of the Lord, Hammer (Mace) of God, God’s Hammer(er), etc.

As an aside, please think of “Thor’s Hammer”, and the other famous “hammer” of the Franks, Charles (Karolus) Martel. Also remember that Judas "the Hammerer"/ “the Mace”, Makkabeus was killed by a general named / called Bacchides! Which could be just another version of the word Bacchus, the god of the free love cult!

Look up, Mac=Mak=Machen=Magis (create)= Kneaded mass, paste- Mageus, kneader - Mason, to bring into being, make, shape, “hammer into shape”, here is “hammer” again, and in a real sense “to create” out of clay (think “Make?”! Note religious leaders and kings often consider men / subjects as malleable, or capable of being shaped like a lump as metal (or stone) can be shaped, by the use of a “hammer!”

Thus we could also venture that the word could mean, Shaped by God, Made by God, In Gods Image, just as man / Adam was said to have been created out of clay!, etc.

Note, Makka or Makk, as in Makka-bean or Makk-a-bean, is an accepted spelling of Mecca = Macca / Makka / Makk!!! And, as such, fits right in!

Note the word I-S-L-A-M and the pre-nom of Alexander in Greek is “I-S-K-E-N - der” (dar) or I-S-K-A-N der!! Note that “k” and “l” are many times substituted in ancient languages as are “m” and “n”.

Since Makka / Mecca et.al, is a “Holy city”, then the word could mean a group of people “From the Holy City (Mecca/Mekka/Makka)”, “being of / from Mecca”, etc. Even if we were to spell it “Mokka”, the pronunciation in OE was probably the same as “Mach” (mok), and it could easily be a version of “monk?”

Compare the "Chasidim's" of the Maccabeans, which means "the pious" or “chaste” (zealots?), with the Hassideaean's of the later day Jews, which equals the Hassidic sect, which call themselves "the pious" or “chaste.” Chasidim ( the “Ch” can either be pronounced as a “K”, or the “C” can become silent.) comes from the Greek word “Hasidaean” which equals Hassidim! Note how “Hassidaean” almost "feels" like “Hassmonean?” (Assidan-Hassmon-Asmon)

The Abassids(which we have learned were a group of Calif’s who ruled a great part of the Islamic world), gained their authority from the fact that they claimed descent from the uncle of Mohammad. By virtue of this relationship, in the world of Islam, they would have been considered “pious” (or, at the least, they were “set apart!”) and by some co-incidence they were also zealots!

Let us now really consider the Abassids! Here is a little information about them in the words of Richard Hooker.

“The 'Abassid caliphate (758-1258) was founded on two disaffected Islamic populations: non-Arabic Muslims and Shi'ites. For the most part, the Islamic impetus to the Abassid revolution lay in the secularism of the Umayyad caliphs. The Umayyads had always been outsiders—as a wealthy clan in Mecca, they had opposed Muhammad —and the secularism and sometime degeneracy that accompanied their caliphate de-legitimized their rule for many devout Muslims.”

(Note, the words “Abassid revolution”!, and compare that with the Hasmoneans / Maccabeans and their revolution!)

“The Abassids took their name from al-'Abbas, a paternal uncle of Muhammad and early supporter of the Prophet. Their close kinship to Muhammad and the position of al-'Abbas as a Companion of the Prophet served them well in gaining support. As early as 718 AD, during the reign of Umar II, Muhammad ibn 'Ali, a great-grandson of al-'Abbas, began to proselytize in Persia to rally support for returning the caliphate to the family of the Prophet, the Hashimites.”

So now you know that this family was called, the Hashimites!! This in itself is an interesting word. Let us now look up words that resemble or relate to; Hashim-ites and Abbas-ids! Standby and you will (may be?) be amused, or worried!!.

1. Hash, [from French hacher, from Old French hachier, from hache = battle axe = mace?, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German happa = sickle...] To cut or chop into small pieces. IE, to make hash of something! See “Smash!”

2. Hashimite or Hashemite [Hashim, the great-grandfather of Muhammad]: a member of an Arabic family having common ancestry with Muhammad and founding dynasties in countries of the eastern Mediterranean. (To this day the official name of the Jordan is “the Hashimite Kingdom of Jordan) Remember that the Hashim/Hushim were the sons of Dan!!

3. Hashish [Arabic hashish] : a narcotic drug derived from the hemp (Cannabis sativa) that is smoked, chewed, or drunk for its intoxicating effect. Look later at the “Assasins!”

4. Hasid or Hassid in the plural form Hasidim or Hassidim [Hebrew- hasidh, meaning pious], a.. a member of a Jewish sect of the second century B.C. opposed to Hellenism and devoted to the strict observance of the ritual law. b. a member of a Jewish mystical sect founded in Poland about 1750 in opposition to rationalism and ritual laxity - Hassidic. The practice of this belief is called Hasidism. (Could this mean Hashishism?)

5. Hasmonaeans or Hasmoneans [from LL Asmonaeus, aka Hasmon, the ancestor of the Maccabees, from the Greek Asamonaios] (could this be Hashmoneans?, why not?, or (H)asshmoneans?)

Note, that the name “Asa”, appears in the Greek form, thus Asa-monaios! / Asamoneans! Please feel free to look up the Biblical history of King Asa, and you can decide if there is even another relationship developing here! In this case the word could mean “A man of / like / or from Asa”, or “Idol destroying man”, etc. You must have some knowledge of A’sa, to make this connection, so please feel free to refresh your knowledge! "Monaios" may well have stood for “mono-theist?”

Now let us look at words that may be related to Abbas as in Abbasid!

1. Abas- meaning - down with.
2. Abase- abassen, bassiare, meaning- lower, depress, degrade, humble, yielding of prestige.
3. Abash- from abaiss, meaning - to astonish, alter, disconnect (IE, set apart from?)
4. Abatis- a battle, meaning- a defensive obstacle. (IE, fight, overcome, rebellion?)
5. Abator- from abatire, meaning- slaughterhouse! (Abbatoir and Kasher?)

6. Abbacy- from abbatie, abbatia- meaning- the office, dignity, jurisdiction, or term of tenure of an Abbot. (IE, a group of religious men and women?)
7. Abbasid- from ?- meaning- a member of a dynasty of caliphs claiming descent from Abbas the uncle of Muhammad.
8. Abbatial- meaning- of or relating to an abbot, abbess, or abbey.
9. Abbe- from abbat, abbas, abbatia- a member of the French secular clergy in major or minor orders- used as a title.
10. Abbess- the female version of Abbot.

11. Abbey- from abate, abbatia- meaning a monastery ruled by an abbot or a convent ruled by an abbess, or an abbey church. A synonym is Cloister.
12 abbot- from abbod, from abbat or abbas, from abbas, from abba meaning father- meaning, the superior of an abbey for men. (IE, LORD?, Padre?, Papa, Father?)

A pretty interesting list, and taken in order from the dictionary. Is it possible that the narcotic drug hashish has anything else to do with history?, and does its name “hash” or “Has” or “as” or “assh”, imply any relationship to any of the other words? No! Then consider this;

As mentioned earlier by me, I feel the need to remove the unnecessary “h” from the above words, and by this action I must be French? I have now created a whole bunch of new words haven’t I?, or have I? Let us see;

Words beginning with “as” or “ass”;
1. (H)Asmodeus [LL, Asmodaeus, from Greek, Asmodaios, from Hebrew, Ashmadhai] : an evil spirit in Jewish demonology. (Very interesting!, and we see the Hebrew word is spelled “Ash”, witih the use of “Ash”, you thus reinsert the “H”, and thus get “Hashmodeus”, for example.)

2. (H)Assassin-[ML, assassinus, from Arabic Hashshashin, plural of hashshash, one addicted to hashish], capitalized: ASSASSIN-one of a secret order of Muslims that, at the time of the Crusades, terrorized Christians and other enemies by secret murder committed under the influence of hashish. (Very interesting! The word that we know of as “assassin” should really be Hashishian or something like it, maybe Hassassin or Hussian? I have even seen maps of the crusader period showing an entire area considered the territory of the ASSASSINS!!, and it seems that I am not the first person to remove the “H” from words!)
Let us now look at other words beginning with “as”;

3. Asperse: to sprinkle with Holy Water! (Continue to assume that an “h” could began every word listed. Thus Hasperse, or substituting an “e”, you’d get, Hesperse!, which is close to Heshvan, the second Jewish month, and “Hesperian”, meaning west, western or occidental and “hesperus”, the evening star and even the word “Hessian!”, see 1776 AD.)

4. Asguard: the home of the Norse God (H-asguard)

5. Ash, a noun, often attributed [Middle English asshe, from Old English asce: akin to Old High German, ask or ash, from Latin aridus=dry-more at ARDOR] (“hasshe” and H-ardor, H-aridus, etc.)

6. ashamed (hashamed / Hash-amed!, Hash-amet?, or Hash-ahmad?, as in Moha-h-mad)

7. Asher [Hebrew Asher] : a son of Jacob and ancestor of one of the tribes of Israel. (Hasher) or (hacher?)

8. asherah, a noun, the plural of which is asherim or asherahs. [Hebrew acherah] : a tree or pole found beside the altar in a Canaanite high place and held to be sacred to the goddess Asherah. (Thus Hasherah.)

9. Ashkenazi!, in plural form Ashkenazim! [Hebrew Ashkenazi] : a member of one of the two great divisions of Jews comprising the eastern European Yiddish-speaking Jews. (Hashkenazi.)

10. ashlar [Middle English asheler, from Middle French aisselier a traverse beam, from Old French, from ais, board, from Latin axis, alternative of assis] a. a hewn or squared stone; also: masonry of such stone. (Hashlar, hassis!)

11. ashram (hashram / hash-ram)

12. Ashtoreth, reth aka ruth: Astarte (Hashtoreth or Hashtoruth or Hashtorut)

13. Ashur: the chief deity of the Assyrian pantheon. (Hashur)

14. Asian! (Hasian / hassian?/ hessian?), we must remember that in a great deal of history as we are now taught, that Asia, meant persons from Anatolia, or Asia Minor, those from the Levant were considered as Orientals!!

15. Assault (h-assault)

16. Assimilate (H-assimilate)

17. Assyrian (H-assyrian)

18. Astarte-the Phoenician goddess of fertility and of sexual love. (H-astarte)

If you were to pursue (or willing for me to pursue) this line of reasoning then you may have to assume that the revolt of the Maccabees, with their supporters the powerful and “pious” Chasidim, and their dominion, and the rule of a powerful Calif named Alexander, with the support of the powerful and “pious” Abassids (Abassidim?), can be forwarded into the near past by the relationship of the words and meanings, of the Hassidim.

Since writing the above, I found the following information that is un-attributed on the Internet!.

“A revolt in Islam occurred in 740 C.E. It was led by a certain man named Zaid, a relative of the prophet. The revolution began on January the sixth, and in a battle Zaid was betrayed by his troops and Zaid was killed. His body was taken to Kufa where it was crucified, his head was reportedly sent to Damascus and eventually to Medina. A certain man called Abu Moslim, was the founder of the Abbasid dynasty. Abu Moslim vowed to avenge the death of Zaid and as a sign of his vow, he and his followers adopted clothing that was all black, and black remained the sign of this dynasty.”

Did the term Moslem come from Abu Moslim?, or did it come from Mossul?( As some experts assert.), and thus Mossulmen or Musselmen = Moslem!

How very interesting. It appears that Zaid and Moslim claimed descent from Mohammad, the prophet, and Moslim must have been a direct descendant of Abbas the uncle of Mohammad.

They wore “black” to signify that they were “different” from all others!!

According to modern historians the Abbasid Califate eventually controlled most of the Mediterranean world outside of Western Europe and the Eastern Roman Empire. Thus they controlled everything East of modern Turkey (the Orient), Syria, Assyria, Mesopotamia, the Levant (aka- the Orient = East), Persia, Arabia, Egypt and all of North Africa and most of Spain.

In other words maybe the largest empire in the “Western” world. It stretched from Iberia to Iberia in C.E. 900, that is the Iberia that is Spain and Portugal and the “Iberia” that is the Caucasus!

What!, you did not know there were two Iberia’s? From which of these “Iberians?”, were the Saracens that challenged the Kingdom of Charlemagne / Karolus Magnus? Note, Karolus can be translated merely as meaning "Free" or "Freeman!" One might even consider that it meant "free from the control of any other man?"

All in all this was an empire very similar to the Empire of Alexander the Great. It is also of great interest to see how this dynasty set itself “apart” from others, by the use of distinctive clothing, and by claiming direct descent from the prophet himself. Also remember that the Abbasid’s are also known as the Hashimites!

Now let us consider some words that are separated from the previous words by hundreds of years!

MACEDONIAN / MAKEDONIAN / MAKKADONIAN! (Phillip and Alexander)

Make-Donian! What is a “Donian”? Don-ian! A “Don” is a Spanish Lord or Duke or knight! Donian= Dominion, thunder, master, the Lord, donation, etc.

In history these were the men who were allowed to “judge” others, in other words if one were accused of breaking the code or law one would be brought before the "Don" for trial, etc.

Note, this word "Don" is exchangeable / inter-changeable, in my opinion, with the word "DOM" and all of the words beginning with “dom”. Please look them up. (Words like Dominate, Dominion, Domain,etc.) Also include words beginning with DAM or DEM, as a good exercise of the mind!

In the scheme of things, it is also supportable to substitute vowels into words composed of consonants (with Hebrew being the most obvious example), thus Doni can easily be the same as Dona, and we find that Donar, means “thunder”, the god of thunder!; that a Donatist is “a member of a North African Christian sect formed in the 4th century (current era), holding extremely rigorous views concerning purity and sanctity.” (See; "Donation")

Thus again we are back to a group of very religious zealots who are striving to be “pious”!!! In the same vein, what is to keep me from substituting another vowel?

How about Dan, or Dana, or Danae, or the Danaides (the daughters of Danaus)! Dan, by itself has three distinct meanings, 1. A name, Dan, the 5th son of Jacob and the tribe named from him “the tribe of Dan”, the meaning of which is “judge”, or “a Judge”. 2. Dan, a title, from the Latin dominus, meaning a master, lord, master, sir. (Again one who could “judge”!) 3. Dan., is a word abbreviation meaning Dane or Danish, from Denmark, etc. You can as well make the word equal “DAM”, and all of the variations of this, such as Dame, Damascus, Damietta, Damocles, etc.

Damnation (which is what one gets after being judged guilty), Damon, etc. Daman, for example, was a region of India, that was a Portuguese settlement, and a “daman”, is a native sheep of Israel, the equivalent of a Hyrax. (How about “daemon / demon”?)

Please remember that some ancient historians said that the “Jews came from India”. It is just in the last few years that the ruling elite of history have finally determined that the people we now refer to a Gypsies, came from India. Gypsies are known as “wanderers”, and the call themselves “the Rom, or Romany”, which is considered related to Roman, in the past they may have been referred to as the “Rum”. Take the time to consider the tale of “The Wandering Jew”! And the fact that the British considered them as "Egyptians", and the "Gyp" of "Gypsy" seems to have been a shortened form of "E-gyp-tian?"

We can even make it "Dan" or "Dam" equal; DIM(i) or DIN(a), please take the time to look up the words consisting of these prefix’s. Including; Dinah, from Hebrew, meaning literally “judged!!”, as well as “Dimashq”, which is the Arabic name of Damascus!! Look up Din, Jinn, Gin, etc.!

Mac=Mak=Make=Machen=Mach=mache=create=magis=a kneaded mass, paste, mageus, a kneader, mason, magi, magic, wise, etc. The Latin word “machina” is the equal of Magi and magnus.

MACHABEES and not Maccabee, is the spelling that you would find in the Catholic or Douay Bible, thus let us look at words beginning with "Mach!";

MACHETE [Spanish, dimunitive of MACHO, an axe, hammer, derived from Latin, “marculus”, a dim. of Marcus, hammer.] MARCUS, as a name, is the same as Marc, Marco, and Mark. (Thus Marc Anthony- or “the Hammerer, Anthony?”)

MACHIAVELLI, he that wrote of governmental forms, as well as being a statesman. He was a Florentine, (1469-1527). (His works on political systems still scares people.
If we assume that “Mach”, in Machiavelli is the same as Marc /Marko, etc., equals “Hammer”, and the “I”, from Mach / Mark / Hammerer plus “I”, could indicate the plural form, thus the same as “Avellan, which is an ancient town in Italy.
Please feel free to look up the words “Avellan, Avence, Aver, Abaten and Abate!!)
Thus a follower of Machiavelli may have been a “Machiavee! / Machiabee!”

Also of importance are the words; machicolate, machicilation, machinate. See again that the derivation of Macccabees, is Machabaei, Makkabaios, and the Aramaic words “maqqaba”, hammer: hence literally the hammerer. In reality a “hammerer” is also considered a “person that shapes metal, rock or wood, thus with metal and stone the material is hammered into its final shape, with wood and other substances it is cut or bent into shape. Thus Jesus was trained as a “hammerer”, since a “carpenter”, IE, a “a person who shapes wood”, is considered (by many sources) no different from a mason or blacksmith! A shaper of man!

Let us look again at MACE! From [Old French masse, from mattea, a club, hypothetically from the Latin matea, from mat-, a hoe, club (whence Sanscrit matya-, a club, harrow: cf. MATTOCK]
MATTOCK;

1. a., “a heavy, armor-breaking club with a metal head, often spiked, used in the Middle Ages.” A “hammer” of sorts! Something most of us would call a “mace”!

Let us even consider the term Kosher, [from Yiddish (Germanic Hebrew?), from Hebrew “kasher”, meaning fit or proper] (Interesting term, “fit and proper”, it can easily mean “pious”. Note that the Hebrew spelling is “kasher”, and we already (I hope!) understand that “h”, can be substituted, in many cases, for “k”, thus you would get “hasher / h-ashur”, or even “hacher”, thus “hache”, meaning “axe” or “battle axe”, thus “mace” or “hammer.” Think there is some relationship?

Sent to me by a friend of this list, Oscar Calle’, is the following in his words;

"Maccabee", from "MCBI", an acronym for the Biblical verse "Mi kamokha
ba'elim Hashem", that means "Who is like unto thee among the mighty, O
Lord!", Ex. 15,11. It was the nickname of Judah the Hasmonean, which
then was applied to his brothers."
(Note that Oscar Calle’ translates Hashem as “O’Lord!” Why is that?)

"Other derivation, from 'maquévet', 'hammer'.
Hasmonean, from "Jashmonaim", a Jewish family name. This name is not noted in the Bible, but in Josephus' writings.”

Note, that we see from Oscar’s work that he, and probably most experts, consider (assume) the consonants M- C- B are the letters used to substitute for the words Mi (M) kamokha (k) ba’elem (b) and Oscar substitutes an “i” for an “h”, how else would he write the letters MCBI when he should have written “h” for Hashem?

Again remember that the Abbasid’s were also called the Hashimites which is but one letter (vowel) removed from Hashemites!

What really is the meaning of the word “Hashem?” Note that Oscar says that “Hasmonean, from ‘Jashmonaim’, a Jewish family name.” Where did Oscar come up with “Jashmonaim?"

Well, I looked up words that may be related, and I got this!

“Jeshimon,” (Jashmoniam?) “a waste or desert, the section of the Judean Hills, which stretch toward the Dead Sea... Its chalky” (White / Alba?) “hills have always been the home of outlaws!” While not an exact match, for ancient Hebrew it is close and it also relates to the type of places that the family of Hasmon had to hide after the destruction of the temple, IE, they hid in the “hills.” And, as mentioned earlier, the Assassins (Hashish-men) were considered “outlaws”, and their homeland was reportedly located in the Hills, were it was easy to hide!

As a fact the Hebrew word for Jeshimon is “hayeshimon” Note that “shimon” has some significance in this discussion.

For example see; “Joshah, Hebrew for “Yoshah”, meaning “Jehovah’s gift”, which equals “a descendant of Simeon (Shimeon), and head of his family.” Thus Josh-ah (i)-mon?

For another example see; “Josiah, Hebrew for “yoshiyahua”, meaning “Jehovah supports him.” You must really read the story of Josiah (Hosiah?) to really understand where I am coming from.

Oscar wrote me later with a follow up on his first message;

“Hi Ron,

A few clarifications:

- The original transcription of Ex. 15,11 is Mi Kmkh Balm Ihvh , lit.
Who is like you among the gods, Yahveh? (in the attached Word document
is that verse in Hebraical characters, you must have the font Web Hebrew
AD to see it). When I wrote you, I quoted from KJV, when I put Who is
like unto thee among the mighty, O Lord! , and I was not quoting from
the original Hebrew text and put Hashem (meaning The Name) instead
Yahveh (meaning I Am: I Am, the name of Hebrew God). So the acronym
with MKBI is complete.”

So now we see that IHVH is the equivelant of JHVH or Yahveh/Jehova, and MKB(I) is MaKaBee without vowels.

Oscar continues;

“Hammer in Hebrew is makevet, with an accent on the first e. It seems
that my or your email client has a problem with some special characters.
- Hasmonean (from Heb. Jashmonaim), was the name of a Jewish priestly
family, because an ancestor was named Hasmoneus (see Josephus, Jew. Ant.
book 12, chapt. 6, par. 1: Mathathiah, son of John, son of Simon (Shimon), son of Hasmoneus, priest of Joarib, Jerusalem. The last name does not appear in the Biblical equivalent text, so the Bible does not use the term Hasmonean but Macabean).

Please, would you include these considerations in your writings?

Regards,
-Óscar”

Thanks Oscar! I really appreciate your educated words!

Remember above where I made bold the last part of “hayeshimon”, or “shimon.”, let us look into this word!

“Shimeath”, Hebrew for Shim’ath, meaning “fame.” He helped assassinate King Joash of Judah. Versions of this name appear related, as many of them had a part in “Temple cleansing’s”!

Simon (Shimon) Maccabeus, the elder brother of Judas, was originally considered “a family advisor”. As the last survivor/member of the family, he succeeded in the final defeat of the Syrians. He then became both the King and the High Priest, a situation that was considered the perfect combination by many of the religious Jews. But a threat to others.

Jeshimon, could have some meaning if we just substitute a vowel or two, thus Ja-shem(on)ite. Shemite is of course from Shem: a Semite plus Je or Ja for Jehova or Jaweh/Yahwah, translated this would be “a Semite of Jehovah”, and thus differentiating them from other Semites who worshiped Baal, and other gods, etc.

On a rather related note, please consider the following, which comes from a book in my possession entitled “THE BOOK OF THE BIBLE”, by Riedel, Tracy and Mosicowitz. On pages 174 and 175 is a section on names related to the Bible. Thus I quote;

“The issue of the power behind names is raised in the Bible between Moses and God.” There goes on a discussion about what Moses will call God and then... “Thus, when Moses goes before the pharaoh, the term he uses for God is ‘the Lord’, causing the pharaoh to reply that he has never heard of any such god (Ex. 5:2). Rabbinic tradition elaborates this story and says the pharaoh had consulted his seventy scribes, who knew all the languages on earth, and they had also advised him that no such god as ‘the Lord’ existed. Elsewhere God explained: ‘And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by my name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them (Ex. 6:3). At least, ‘Jehovah’ is how the name is written in the English translation of the Bible. In the original Hebrew the name Jehovah is only four letters–YHVH, known as the tetragrammaton. Orthodox Judaism prohibits the pronounciation of the terragrammaton YHVH, substituting ‘the Lord’ (Adonai). The truly orthodox won’t even use the term ‘the Lord’ in any situation but prayer, and if they need to refer to God at other times they say ‘HaShem’–which simply means ‘the name’–instead.”

Well how remarkable “HaShem” appears just in time in my research! Shem equals Shim equals Simon equals Simeon equals Shimon equals Shimeon!

Thus according to the “experts”, HaShem is substituted for Lord or yah-veh/jah-weh-YHVH! Even reading the Biblical words makes no sense. Think of this, even the “seventy scribes” of the pharaoh (please note that there were 70 scribes in the Jewish Temple also),, who “knew all the languages on earth” said that “no such god as ‘the Lord’ existed.”

What balderdash, the term “Lord / Liege” would have been a term that the pharaoh/god/king of Egypt would have or should have been used to. In almost all regal settings the king is / was referred to as “my lord” or “my liege”, etc. Thus my “LORD” would have been a title he and all of his “seventy experts” would have recognized!

Why all the "double consonants" in the above words?, do you see double consonants reappear in the words that I am discussing?, have you seen double consonants in many other Hebrew words?, are the doubled consonants a symbol of something? Do they connect these words?

Now to the last part, with more double consonants!! (If there is a relation? then there is a relation, IE; some real reason to have these doubled consonants in particular words!)

SADDUCEES and PHARISEES

Could the Sadducees of the New Testament be related to any of the above words? If you know your "New Testament" then you readily remember that the Sadducee’s and the Pharisees were two of the most important religious groups in Jerusalem during the time of Christ. What do you really know of them however?

SADDUCEES or SADDOUKAIOI in Greek, meaning “to be righteous”, or “the righteous ones.”

Does this sound familiar? Some experts think that this word comes from "ZADOK", who is most commonly known in the Bible as “the High Priest of David!”, and we are told that in Hebrew, this words means (not surprisingly) “righteous!” Thus the word could just as easily be spelled ZADOKEES or ZADDOKEES or maybe ZADOKKEES.

We have already made a small assumption that anyone or any group that considers themselves as “righteous” can easily consider themselves “pious”, so I will assume that this group was also “pious”, just like our other groups! But this is not a very hard assumption since the Sadducees follow in the time line, in the period just after the time of the Maccabees, and the supporters of the Makkabees, who were supported, on and off, during the rebellion, by the “pious”, or true to the Law of the “Jews?”

These “pious” Jews were called the "Chasidim."

It is important to understand (as mentioned earlier) that the word "Chasidim" is a perfect transliteration of the word “Chasid”, and as such also to the word “Hasid” and “Chasidim to Hasidim”, etc.

It is easy to figure that in all likely hood they were the remnants of the Chasidim! But why would the name become so changed in such a small period of time?

Here is what my dictionary has to say about Sadduccee- [from Middle English saducee, from Old French, sadduce, from Latin, sadducaeus, from Greek, saddoukaios, from Hebrew saddugi.] So let us break up this word.

Sad-duc-ee or the Old French "Sad-duce"! (Note that “duce” and “duc”, equals Duke!) Please notice that Mussolini, called himself "Il Duce'!", with "Duce'" pronounced more like "Dusa!", with the "a" a "long a!", like "eh?"

Well “sad” is a feeling of depression or being downcast but just what is the background of the word “sad”? It is most curious!

My dictionary says [from Middle English, from Old English saed or sated; akin to Old High German sat or sated, or Latin satis meaning ENOUGH!] This is weird, it seems that the original meaning of “sad” was more like “sated” or “full”; or the dictionary says “1.to cloy with overabundance; GLUT”, this is also equated with SATIATE which means “1. To satisfy fully”.

So we have a good feeling for the first part of this word, and we must remember that the Sadducees were the top class of persons in the Holy Land during the time of Jesus, just a step below the King or other members of the nobility, in essence they were the priests, but also more. Thus compared to the common people these men were rich and the rich were “full” or “glutted” with food and money.

Next is the word “duc” or “duk” or “duce”!

Well I think most of you already know what is coming but here it is anyway;

DUC–from the dictionary;

1. ducal [ from Middle French, from Lower Latin, ducalis meaning of a leader, from Latin, duc-, dux leader–more at DUKE], this also includes words like duca, doge, etc.

2. duce [from Italian Duce, literally the leader] (see above for more)

So what do we have? Possibly a description of a bunch of rich, satisfied leaders in the country, thus Sad-duc-ee, with the “e” of “ee” denoting “one of” such a group or “rich dukes.” Read up on the “know it all”, “holier than thou” Sadducees and see what you think!

PHARISEES, Hebrew Perushun, Greek Pharisaioi.

They were the most influential society during the time of Christ and were the most strict sect of the Jews. Pharisee means “the separated ones, separatists”, etc. They stood out in public due to their unusual attire. The scribes were in league with them. (The above is from the “Pictorial Bible Dictionary”) Could we assume that their “unusual attire”, might have been “dressing only in black?”

My dictionary says the following;

"pharisee, [Middle English pharise, from Old English farise, from Lower Latin pharisaeus, from Greek pharisaios, from Aramaic perishayya, the plural of perisha, literally separated] they were noted for their strict observance of rites and ceremonies of the written law and for instance on the validity of the oral law. Thus, to be “Pharisical” was to be “marked by hypocritical censorious self-righteousness”!

I want you to now think about the word Pharisee, pharise, farise, pharisaios, perisha, etc., which (the experts say) means literally “separated.” That is, this group must have separated themselves from the regular clergy or priesthood of the time, or set themselves apart from all the other citizens of the area by various ways.

We have already learned, that the Sadducee set themselves apart also, at least by the way the members dressed. (Do any of us have to think about the current line of Hassidic Jews in the United States and around the world that “separate” themselves by their look, the beards, the curled hair locks, the black clothes, etc., much like Christian groups such as the Quakers or Mennonites, etc., who dress almost the same!, and they also “set themselves apart.”) And, the two groups, the Sadducee’s and the Pharisee’s, were also “set apart” from each other because of their differing view points on religion, as well as other matters.

Again remember that the Abbasids were also “set apart”, by their religious relationship and their dress, which (like the Quakers, Mennonites and the Hassidic Jews) was black!.

It appears, however, that these groups “were part of a Jewish tribunal!, or council which is the Talmudic transcription of the Greek word ‘Synedrion’, a council”, thus Sanhedren! But there appears to be no historical evidence or such a council before the “Greek period.”

(Note, there is evidence that there were numerous “councils” in the Christian eras that followed.)

“Although the Essenes were in existence during the time of Christ and before, they are not mentioned in the New Testament, but our only word of their existence comes from the words of Josephus, Philo, Pliny the Elder, and Hippolytus.”

They, the Essenes, also went their own and “separate” way and were by all accounts considered “pious.” It must be noted that this group did not participate in Temple worship!

The word Essenes in Greek is “Essenoi” or “Essaioi”, the meaning of this word has been debated for decades, but possibly, it meant “Holy ones.” It is then most unlikely that this third group was a part of the Sanhedrin!

My dictionary says that the “Essene is ’derived from the Greek word “Essenos”, for Essene, and must be related to the word “essence” which must be the root word [...from Latin essential, from esse-to be- more at IS], and for “essence” meaning- to the term “essential”, which is a synonym for “fundamental.” Note that Essene also carries the "double consonant!"

Certainly the Essenes were the quintessential “fundamentalist” of their day! To me a “fundamentalist” is “pious”, how about you? Unfortunately we do not have any reports of how the Essenes dressed, is it possible that they also wore black?

Should I even mention just how close Phariasios sounds like Pharaoh? And just how much “perisha” sounds like “Persia and Persians?” Fun, is it not? The only reason it doesn’t make sense (to many at least) is the time-line. Just as the name “Nero” could well be a contraction Ne-Ro or Neo Roma, or New Rome, or New Roman!

Since I have gone this far possibly I should go the next step, a step that really changes our view of the past. Let me now take you on a little look at one of the most famous personages of ancient history as we have been taught, let us look at Alexander the Great.


ALEXANDER (the son of Phillip II, of Macedon!)

Just a cursory look at the word is enough to show that it is a compilation of two or more words, these being Al-El; Alex-Alec; A-lex or E-lex; Ander or Andre or Endor or Andor or Endar, etc.

“Ron”, you may ask, “why do you separate ‘Al’ from Alex, and why do you say that ‘Al” is the same as ‘El?” I do this because in the Aramic, Arabic, Hebrew world these letters are considered the same! (Note it is also common sense!)

That is they denote descent from or relationship to someone else or to a supreme deity. And they are used interchangeably in most cases. El, is known as the name of God from the so-called ancient Jewish history found in the Bible, but let me not get ahead of myself.

1. Alexander (the Great), come to us from Middle English, from Old English Alexandre. In Greek it is spelled as Is-kender or Is-kander or Iskandar! Alex is also Alys and ander is the same as aundre, which comes from the latin word Alexander, which comes from another form of Greek as Alexandros, meaning “defender of men”, which is related to or from Alexien, meaning “to defend, ward off. (Alek) plus aner and the stem andr (andro), meaning man. Alexander the Great is reputed to have lived about 386-333 BCE.

2. Alexander III, was a Pope (1159-1181). His original name was Orlando! Bandinelli. Orlando is the Latin/Italian way of spelling Roland, Rowland, Reuland or Rolando which means “famous land” or “famous in the land”, and is of course the name of the famous Paladin/knight of Charles the Great better known to us a Charlemagne. Pope Alexander III became famous or infamous by excommunicating Frederick I (Barbarossa), the Holy Roman Emperor who helped save Europe.

3. Alexander III (a different III). His original name was Rodrigo Borgia of the famous or infamous Borgia family. He lived about 1431 to 1503 CE. He was the Pope from 1492-1503, or during the time of the exploration of Christobal Colombo (Christopher Colombus). This Pope was known as a patron of the arts and was the father of Cesare and Lucretia Borgia.

4. Alexander Nevski, 1220-1263 CE, a Russian saint and the Grand Duke of Novgorod and Kiev. The inclusion of this Alexander may surprise some of you but this Alexander may have more in common with Alexander the Great than we believe1
Now let’s begin to take the name Alexander apart and see if we have any other surprises in store for us?

Alex-Ander, in Latin this is Alex-ein plus Andre
-Andre, in French for example
-Andros, a Greek word, like Andro, meaning “man”, Alek-sandr/Aleks-andrr
Alys-andre- from Middle English
-ander, as in Ander’s son or Anderson! Note this could easily be Handerson!

Alius, meaning other, see ELSE, which equals Alias from Latin meaning “at another time.”
It of course also means “another name”, possibly “another time” and “another name” have some relationship. Is it possible that someone was known as one name at one time and another name at another time?

Alex can also be spelled Alec or Alexis!

Alexis!, [Gk., meaning literally help, from Alexein, meaning to defend] IE., defender! There are a couple of famous guys named Alexis or Alexius.

1. Alexis I, 1629-1676 CE, was Tsar of Russia for 47 years. Was Alexander the Great ever in Russia?

2. Alexius I, 1048-1118 CE, also known as Commenus, he spent 60 years as ruler of the Byzantine Empire. What if any relationship could he have with Alexander the Great?

Alexandria! One of numerous cities reputedly named after Alexander the Great. It is spelled and pronounced in Arabic as Al-is-kan-da-ri-yah. Notice AL-IS-KAND(a)(e)R-iah!

Al-is-kan-da
-Is-kan-da
-Is-kan-der or Is-ken-der, the Greek spelling!

Note I have mentioned earlier that Al is the equal of El, thus we could have; El-is-kan-der, but let me not meander and let us now look at some words that begin with Al;

Ala, as in wing like. See next.

Alar, as in wings, or winged, remember Nike was called “winged victory.”

A la (le), as in the manner of or style of, or from.

Ala, also means white! As in Alabaster!

Alaric, 370 to 410 CE, he was the king of the Visigoths, he conquered Rome! Goths are considered Germanic by many experts, they went on to conquer and settle Iberia / Spain.
Alarum, note Ala-rum!, a call to arms, or alarm!

Alborak, (Also spelled "Buraq" or even "Barak!", and reportedly meaning "Lightning" of "Like Lightning", etc.) a very interesting entry since this was the name of the “white mare mule that carried Muhammad.”

It is also known that Alexander the Great had a famous horse that carried him into numerous battles, this horse was also reportedly "white!" Do you know its name?

Alary, again meaning wings!

Alastor!, the masculine personification of Nemesis, from the Greek Alastor meaning “the un-forgetting one”, from Alastas, meaning unforgettable. Alexander the Great was it appears, a person that was hard to forget!

Alb, a long white linen robe, from Alba, meaning white. It is worn by priests!

AL, meaning literally “the” in Arabic! Note “El”, “I am!”, or "The Word?"

Alba Longa, a city if ancient Latium, Southeast of Rome, reportedly the birth place of Romulus and Remus, the twins, and the so called Trojan founders of Rome!

Albus, again, meaning White!

Albania, a country near to Alexanders homeland!

The “Alban cliffs of England”, a poetic description of the white cliffs of Dover!

A-lex!= lexis=lexion=a word or legend! Lex also is the same as Law! Thus "A lex" could mean “a law” or “a word” But it is possible that it was originally spelled "Allex?" (or even "El-Lex?") then the exess "l" was omitted, and in the case of the doubled "l", it would have stood for "The Law" or "The Word?", or "I am the Word or Law?" Interesting!

Ander could be short for Ander or Andar-son, possibly Sander. Sander means sand, which equals courage or boldness

Very interesting group again, but now let me give you a closer look at one Greek form of Alexander, that has already been mentioned - ISKENDER!

Is- this little word can mean “holy or sacred”! This seems important, at least to me!.

Is, [ME, fr. OE; akin to OHG ist is (fr. sin to be), L est (fr. esse to be), Gk esti (fr. einai to be)]

It is known that God told the Israelites that “I am that I am”, or some words to that effect, thus his “being” was enough for man, thus “to be” is descriptive of the God Jehova or EL! (See “al” above, as well as Alex!))

Issac, son of Abraham and father of Jacob.

Isaiah, or Isaias, a Hebrew prophet.

Ishmael, 1. The outcast son of Abraham and Hagar 2. A social outcast (but bing the "first born" he was cheated out of his inheritance!)

Ishmaelite, 1. A descendant fo Ishmael 2. Ishmael 2. We can also note that the Islamic or Mohammedan religion and the Arabs themselves consider Ishmael as their ancestor, as a consequence Moslem/Musselmen? clerics were called Ishmaelites by Hebrew and Christian writers and other religious leaders! Can we even consider "Ishkander?" as posssibly a related word?

Isis, the Egyptian goddess of motherhood and fertility and wife of Osiris. Please note that the Isis is also the name of the Thames river at and above Oxford in England the land of the Angles!

Iskenderun or Iskenderon, or formerly Alexandretta, a city and port in S. Turkey on the Gulf of Iskenderun. Again Alexander and Iskender!

Islam, [Arabic word Islam meaning submission (to the will of God)] 1. The religious faith of Muslims

Island, a word that you may have more of a problem with, and too involved to consider here. Please feel free to pursue this word on your own!

Israel, no need to say more!

Issus / Issa, an ancient town in S. Asia Minor, North of modern Iskenderun. You may have already read some of my words about “Issus” and its comparison with Cephissus as well as the famous battle (allegedly) fought there between Alexander the Great and Cyrus the Great! I would contend that "issus" and various spelling versions like "Isus", or "isos", etc., is or was merely a version of the English word "Issue", or "issues", which meant the "issue of water" or more plainly "a river" or "stream" of moving (Living)water.

Istanbul, (Also spelled Istambul or Istambol, etc.)no need to say more! (Is-khan? or Ish-khan?, you may know that a “bull” can be a Papal edict / order, that is called a “Papal Bull!”, our modern word is "bulletin.")

"Ister", the ancient name of the Danube river. Another famous river that has "issues?" chuckle!

Istria, a peninsula in NW Yugoslavia in Croatia and Slovenia. This area was part of the Venetian Empire for many years. It is likely that Alexander the Great had some contact with this area!

If you have read earlier in this essay you now understand that when I look at words I act somewhat like the French, I insert the letter “h”, and then remove it, by making its vocalization silent, thus L’hotel is pronounce Lo-tell, thus I tend to consider any words that we may spell beginning with “i”, may be just as correct with a silent “h” placed in front of it. Thus we get;

Hispania, the Iberian peninsula (Hiberian / Hiberia?, Ispania?, Irish!) Spain! Iberian from Iberia, 1. Ancient Spain 2. The Iberian peninsula 3. ancient region South of the Caucasus West of Colchis in modern Georgia.

Alexander the Great tried to conquer this "Iberia" in the East but like the rest of Western Europe, Spain was ignored!! Modern experts ask us to consider that Western Europe was too barbaric and lacking in wealth for Alexander to have focused any attention upon, but if we consider that Alexander can be moved up to the 16th Century C.E., then you have the stalemated political and warring situation that existed between the Ottoman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire of Western Europe.

Hissarlik, the site (reportedly) of Ancient Troy!! We are told that Alexander the Great visited there.

Very interesting isn’t it? All these words with some relationship to Alexander!

Let's now look at the second part of Is-KEN-DER or Is-KEND-er!

Ken, Kan, Kin, Can, Cin, Canaanite!, Kenites, Khan!, etc.

Note, I could even go on and use "Al" as in "Alans!" Maybe it was "Elans?" You might well figure out where I would go with that topic?

Well that is more than enough. Sorry if I offended anyone!




Edited by opuslola - 04-Nov-2009 at 07:33
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2009 at 16:29
Cyrus, I hope you see from the above post, how my view is close to yours? For I am making both the Makkadonians (the Muhammedans) the same as the Macedonians! Whilst not exactly from Egypt, the Arabian world is right across the street so to speak, and it was reportedly from such a neighborhood that the "word" spread!

You might well understand that I consider all three of our western religions, that is Christians (all sects), Jews (both major sects) and Moslems (at least two major sects), as merely a split from an original budding of religion! The Muslim world is still fighting amongst their selves, as is Christianity! Some of those "proto" religions have been morphed into ancient variaties, such as "Arianism", and "Zorastorism", and "Mithratic" versions!

The similarities of other religions to the life of Jesus is one of the clues!

Most of Jewery it seems came about in Europe when an entire people were converted?

One of the other clues is the fact that the taking of the E. Roman Empire came not from the South or East, but from the North! Does the word "Bessarabia" come to mind?

Since I doubt if you have read either post, I thought I'd add this here;

http://www.domainofman.com/forum/index.cgi?read=13459

"It is almost universally held, among Western scholars, that the character of Dhul-Qarnayn mentioned in the Koran corresponds to Alexander the Great. The reason for this is that the story of Dhul-Qarnayn as described in the Qur'an follows very closely some passages of the Alexander romance, a thoroughly embellished compilation of Alexander's exploits from Hellenistic and early
Christian sources, which underwent numerous expansions and revisions throughout Antiquity and the Middle Ages. Orientalist scholars, studying ancient Christian legends about Alexander the Great, independently came to the conclusion that Dhul-Qarnayn is an ancient epithet for Alexander the Great. Historically, Muslim scholars have endorsed the identification of Dhul-Qarnayn with the Alexander the Great (see, for example, Tafsir Al-Jalalayn on Qu'ran 18:83)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iskandarnamah

The following are just two quuotes from the above site;

Richard Stoneman discusses Dhul-Qarnain in his book, "Alexander the Great: A Life in Legend". He writes:

"The Qur'an refers to Alexander by the name of Dhu'l-qarnain, the two-horned one. Persian authors were confident of the identity of the two figures, and related the stories of Dhu'l-qarnain as actions of Iskandar, but some Qur'anic scholars, both in the past and recently, have doubted that Dhul-qarnain of the Qur'an has anything to do with Alexander. However, there is so much convergence
of the extant Arabic romances of Dhu'l-qarnain with Alexander stories that there can be litle doubt that their authors saw them as one, and used stories from the Alexander Romance to elaborate their accounts of Dhu'l-qarnain.

"The second part of Qur'an, Sura 18, is an answer to a problem raised thus: 'They will ask you concerning Dhu'l-qarnain.' The name must derive from the iconography of Alexander, in which the hero is portrayed wearing the horns of Ammon on coins of the successors. However, the question being asked in Sura 18 of the Qur'an concerns the ram with two horns in the prophesy of Daniel 8, who is generally agreed to be Cyrus, while the goat with one horn represents Alexander. So it seems that the author of the Quar'an has confused the two figures, under the influence prevailing iconography of Alexander with two horns, and has attached the designation to the wrong king."



Edited by opuslola - 14-Oct-2009 at 18:51
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2009 at 14:15
Good work opuslola, thanks for your kind words, it is great that you are also interested to think about other possible hypotheses and don't limit your mind to just some simple and popular ones.
 
Name of Alexander in other languages was a good mention, as you know his name in some eastern countries is Sekandar, the first part of his name could be the same ancient Egyptian word Sekhen which means Scorpion/Scorpion King, this word can be seen in the first part of some Egyptian pharaohs' names, such as Sekhenkare, Sekhenre, Sekhenkhet, ...
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2009 at 16:31
And thank you also! But, if I may, you wrote above; "Name of Alexander in other languages was a good mention, as you know his name in some eastern countries is Sekandar, the first part of his name could be the same ancient Egyptian word Sekhen which means Scorpion/Scorpion King, this word can be seen in the first part of some Egyptian pharaohs' names, such as Sekhenkare, Sekhenre, Sekhenkhet, ..."

I did not know that it was ever written anywhere without the "I"?, and expecially with out the "k"!,as in "Isk"! But, I see you or your sources substitute "khen" for it! But this leads us with the predicate "Se!", to replace the "Is!"

What would be the lingusitic reason for such a change? Could your version just as easily be written as "Si?", or "Sikhen..?"/ "Sikander?", etc.

Also, since I just finished the enthralling story of vieing snipers in WWII Stalingrad, I was wondering about this city's previous name, which was Tsargrad, or something similar, or here it is; " formerly called Tsaritsyn (Russian)." So the word, in Russian, at least as it is written in English is Tsar-it-syn! Does this come close to Caesaria, or other closely named cities? That is if you consider T-sar or T-zar as the Rus equivalent of Cae-sar / Kai-sar?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volgograd

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 17-Oct-2009 at 17:04
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2009 at 12:42
Originally posted by Messopotamian

interesting...
What is more intresting...
the Egyptian or the Slavonic connection ?
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2009 at 12:57
Cyrus the books( Arda Viraf Namag and Denkart) that you mention are not consider historical sources but religious.
As regards the origin of the Alexander and therefor his tribe, there is a archaelogical find that indicate  the Greek origin. The facade of the tomb of Darius I has the shape of a cross with the entrance to the tomb at the center, while above is a monumental relief showing Darius I who is praying at an altar of the supreme god of the Persians, Ohrmazd (Ahuramazda) on top of a base that is supported by 28 different subject peoples of the Persian Empire. An inscription at the upper right corner , known to archaeologists as DNa (i.e. Darius Naqsh [inscription] a), names those peoples.
 
In the aforementioned inscription DNa that lists the subject peoples, we read the following:

. . . King Darius says: By the favor of Ahuramazda these are the countries which I seized outside of Persia; I ruled over them; they bore tribute to me; they did what was said to them by me; they held my law firmly. (These countries are:) Media, Elam, Parthia, Areia, Baktria, Sogdia, Chorasmia, Drangiana, Arachosia, Sattagydia, Gandara, India, the Skythians who drink (the sacred drink) haoma, the Skythians with pointed caps, Babylonia, Assyria, Arabia, Egypt, Armenia, Kappodokia, Lydia, the Ionians (Greeks of Asia Minor), the Skythians across the sea (on the shores of the Black Sea), Thrace, the Greeks who wear shield like headcoverings(Yuana Takabara), the Libyans, the Nubians, the people of Maka and the Carians . . .

 
The Greek-speaking people with the shield-like hat were the Macedones, renowned for wearing the sun-hat, as Alexander I did on his fine coins from 478 B.C . The Greek-speaking citizens of the colonial city states on the seaboard were not mentioned; nor did they wear a sun-hat. So these Greeks who wear shieldlike headcoverings(Yuana Takabara) are the ancient Macedonians.
 
In my blog I have two intresting articles as regards this subject. One is from me and the other from a known Greek ethnologist and expert in ancient Greek history.
 


Edited by akritas - 24-Oct-2009 at 13:02
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2009 at 16:04
Akritas, I am sorry, I seem to not understand just what you call "shield-like" hats or "Sun-hats?" Does "sun-like" or "shield like" mean "bi-corn?", or "Two horned?", etc.?

Can you give me some exact examples?

regards,

Edited by opuslola - 24-Oct-2009 at 16:07
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2009 at 22:48
Originally posted by opuslola

Akritas, I am sorry, I seem to not understand just what you call "shield-like" hats or "Sun-hats?" Does "sun-like" or "shield like" mean "bi-corn?", or "Two horned?", etc.?

Can you give me some exact examples?

regards,
If you go to the mentioned links you will see the pictures.
 
 
In the specific coin(Alexander I) you will see the "shield like" hut  with the  "Two horned" at the side. This hut call "kausia". M. Kingsley( The cap that survived Alexander,1981) suggests that the kausia should be identified with the modem chitrali, a traditional woollen cap worn by certain groups living in or originating from the mountainous areas of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nuristan.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2009 at 12:41

akritas, Takabara can never mean one who wears shield like headcoverings!! The second part of the word is -bara which means bearer, like the Old Persian word vaçabara in DNd which means "bow-bearer", the first part in all probability is also the name of a weapon, like this one:

Proto-IE: *teks-

Meaning: weapons (bow and arrows, spear)

Other Iranian: NPers taxš 'bow' (weapon)

Old Greek: tókso-n `Bogen', pl. `Schiesgerät(e), (Bogen und) Pfeile'
 
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2009 at 14:32
Akritas, the only site I could see to examine was; http://ancient-medieval-macedonian-history.blogspot.com/search/label/Yauna%20Takabara

And, again it seems I could find no example of "Sun-sheilds" or "Shieldlike helments" or headwear! The coin example you continue to show looks nothing like any shield I have ever seen!

Could you mean a rather flat cocave metal hat with a wide brim?
Sorry, I am still rather confused?

Another visual aid is needed, at least by me, before I can comment further!

Regards,
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2009 at 13:57
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

akritas, Takabara can never mean one who wears shield like headcoverings!! The second part of the word is -bara which means bearer, like the Old Persian word vaçabara in DNd which means "bow-bearer", the first part in all probability is also the name of a weapon, like this one:

Proto-IE: *teks-

Meaning: weapons (bow and arrows, spear)

Other Iranian: NPers taxš 'bow' (weapon)

Old Greek: tókso-n `Bogen', pl. `Schiesgerät(e), (Bogen und) Pfeile'
 
Several sources confrim that takabara mean  the person that wears shield like headcoverings
 
-Cambridge Ancient History Vol 4, page 247
-The Cambridge history of Iran Vol 2, page 245
-N.G.L. Hammond in Ian Worthington Alexander the Great A Reader, page 20

According the below link bara mean bring and not bearer(Avesta or  Old Persian dialect).

 
As regards the "taka" I think that we agree as regards the meaning of the word. But as you know there were Persian Troops that named  Takabara
 
 
 

 





Edited by akritas - 26-Oct-2009 at 13:58
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2009 at 14:12
Originally posted by opuslola

Akritas, the only site I could see to examine was; http://ancient-medieval-macedonian-history.blogspot.com/search/label/Yauna%20Takabara

And, again it seems I could find no example of "Sun-sheilds" or "Shieldlike helments" or headwear! The coin example you continue to show looks nothing like any shield I have ever seen!

Could you mean a rather flat cocave metal hat with a wide brim?
Sorry, I am still rather confused?

Another visual aid is needed, at least by me, before I can comment further!

Regards,
 
Worthington book is ok ?
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2009 at 09:48
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0&oq=chitrali&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS315US315&q=chitrali+hat

From the above many examples!

I guess there was a language problem, with the mention of "Shield like" and "helment" getting in the way! In other words, it was not a helmet of metal for protection in battle! It is a soft hat like a Phrygian one, etc.

I believe it was Alexander or Napolean who said basically they would be a Persian in Persia, a Greek in Greece, etc.?
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  Quote machaon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2009 at 01:09
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

 
Name of Alexander in other languages was a good mention, as you know his name in some eastern countries is Sekandar, the first part of his name could be the same ancient Egyptian word Sekhen which means Scorpion/Scorpion King, this word can be seen in the first part of some Egyptian pharaohs' names, such as Sekhenkare, Sekhenre, Sekhenkhet, ...


His Name is ALEXANDROS from ALEX and ANDROS = Protector of Man other example with ALEX is:
ALEX-IKERAYNO = PROTECTION FROM  LIGHTNINGS
ALEX-ISFERO = PROTECTION FROM BULLETS

So u can see that , if the eastern people can't spell Alexandros... and they call him Shkander , Sekander or Ishkander.... that does not mean that u should ...mix it up with SEKHEN or what ever!!!
Next would be A German friend who says that in German: SEKEL means Male Genital.....so Alexander has roots in Germany and the Makedonians are Germans... and so on..Dead

No Alexander is a Greek Name used by Spartan Hellens (Greeks), Athenian Hellens, Ionian Hellens and of coarse Makedonian Greeks... and all the other Hellens (Greeks)

MAY THE GODS PROTECT YA ALL...
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  Quote machaon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2009 at 01:13
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Whether interesting or not interesting, this is a possible hypothesis.


Nop!!!! It's not a possible hypothesis... Wink
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2009 at 07:53
But I think that is a possible hypothesis, especially because ancient Persian sources, of course some medieval Persian sources confirm that he was a Greek, for example the great 12th-century Persian poet Nizami Ganjavi in Eskandar-Nameh (The Book of Alexander) says:

Be Yunan zamin bud mavaye u
Be Maqdunieh khastar jaye u

Greek land was his place of residence
Macedonia was more precisely his location

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