QuoteReplyTopic: The Myth about Thunder Birds Posted: 26-Sep-2009 at 11:48
Native American folk lore is filled with stories about the great Thunder bird, especially in the southwest states of Arizona and New Mexico. I watched some program on TV and heard a few shows on coasttocoast am (radio)about Thunder Birds; which I always take with a grain of salt. Both programs talked about people seeing an unusually large eagle-like creature or in some cases more like a vulture that was big enough to almost steal a child of ten or eleven away, but the parent supposedly scared it away. Native American lore is full of stories about the Thunder Bird stealing children and most likely eating them. I once saw a huge bird soaring in the skies of Los Padres National Forest, California and it was so huge I thought it was a hang glider but I was way too far in the Sespe Wilderness for it to be a hang glide and it looked more like a bird. It could have been a large golden eagle but who knows, there is always a bit of truth in mythology.
Does anyone else know about this legend and do you have such myths in your nations or region or the world?
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
There were some ancient Persian huge mythical birds like Roc/Rukh and Simurgh but there could be also a real huge bird in Persia in the ancient times, similar to lion, bull and other animals column capitals, this bird-heaed column capitals can be seen in Persepolis too:
The "Montauk Monster" was an unidentified creature that allegedly washed ashore dead on a beach near the Montauk, New York, business district in July 2008.
and Eagle of Persepolis:
I think we can add this question: Could it be a Thunder Bird?!
There were some ancient Persian huge mythical birds like Roc/Rukh and Simurgh
Like dragons, myths of large birds seem to be universal. Are Persian Roks rumored to by hostile to people (like Thunderbirds)or beneficial to people? It is interesting to note that while dragons were viewed as hostile in Europe, in Asia they were viewed as good, semi divine creatures.
Originally posted by eaglecap
Native American folk lore is filled with stories about the great Thunder bird, especially in the southwest states of Arizona and New Mexico.
As a side note, the 45th Infantry Brigade which has many Native American soldiers (Oklahoma National Guard) is nicknamed "Thunder Bird" and the unit emblem bears a large Thunder Bird.
Interesting- I wonder if it is a hoax, the result of Genetic engineering, some unknown creature or an alien from Planet Eagleoplia-
The show talked about so-called witnesses that saw these large birds in North America and their sometimes attempt to steal away a child but this could be TV Hype that is a bit exaggerated for ratings. I am not closed minded and very open but I have spent a lot of time in Various National Forest wildneress areas and also National Parks in the western half of the USA and BC Canada. ( cloudy Ireland, England and sunny Greece as well) I have seen bears, mountains, eagles but I have never seen a thunder bird, alien ships, unusaly creatures, big foot or even little foot-
You do not know how many times I have looked in the crystal blue sky of the wildernes backcountry and star studded nights.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
It isn't hype. I alluded to modern day sightings and hoped someone would pick up on it, oh well, I did.
THUNDERBIRDS OVER ILLINOIS
STRANGE THINGS ARE HAPPENING IN THE SKY!
They appear out of the sky like the shadow of doom. They have been described as having wingspans of up to 20 feet wide, hooked talons and razor - like beaks. They are the mystery birds of
Illinois.
The ancient Indians of Illinois were no strangers to these birds. Two giant petroglyphs once decorated the stone bluffs near Alton, Illinois. The paintings portrayed a huge, winged creature known as the PIASA: The Monster Bird , which is translated to mean the "bird that devours men". The French explorer Pere Marquette recorded the first accounts of the paintings in 1673. He was impressed enough by them to record them in hi s journals and note that the account of the Piasa involved a terrible creature that preyed on the local Indians. An Indian warrior killed the creature and a painting of it was etched onto the bluffs to recall the legend.
American Indian lore is filled with
stories of strange, monster birds with enormous wingspans and the propensity to carry away human victims. They called these creatures "Thunderbirds" because the Legend of the Giant B ird
claimed that their flapping wings made a sound like rolling thunder. The birds have been described as having wingspans of 20 to 40 feet or more; hooked talons; razor - sharp beaks; and sometimes descriptions which seem oddly close to Quetzalcoatlus , one of the pterodactyls of prehistoric times.
But not all of these stories and accounts date back to the times of the early Americans. Most of them come from times that are not so lo ng ago.... and are disturbingly close to home.
One modern day "flap" of Thunderbird sightings began in April 1948, according to
Loren Coleman
in his book, CURIOUS ENCOUNTERS. On April 4, a former Army Colonel named Walter F. Siegmund revealed that he had s een a gigantic bird in the sky above Alton . He had been talking with a local farmer and Colonel Ralph Jackson, the head of the Western Military Academy, at the time. "I thought there was something wrong with my eyesight," he said, "but it was definitely a bird and not a glider or a jet plane. It appeared to be flying northeast... from the movements of the object and its size, I figured it could only be a bird of tremendous size."
A few days later, a farmer named Robert Price from Caledonia
would see the sam e, or a similar, bird. He called it a "monster bird... bigger than an airplane". On April 10, another sighting would take place and this time in Overland . A huge bird was spotted by Mr. and Mrs. Clyde Smith and Les Bacon. They said they thought the creatur e was an airplane until it started to flap its wings furiously.
On April 24, the bird was back in Alton . It was sighted by EM Coleman and his son, James. "It was an enormous, incredible thing with a body that looked like a naval torpedo," Coleman recalled later. "It was flying at about 500 feet and cast a shadow the same size as a Piper Cub at that height."
Then, on May 5, the bird was sighted for the last time in Alton . A man named Arthur Davidson called the police that evening to report the bird flying ab ove the city. Later on that same night, Mrs. William Stallings of St. Louis informed the authorities that she had also seen it. "It was bright, about as big as a house," she said. A number of sightings then followed in the St. Louis are, but ironically, ju st when the public excitement over the bird reached its peak, the sightings came to an end.
Sightings of strange birds have not ended in Illinois and in fact continue today. One of the most exciting, and frightening, Illinois encounters occurred in 1977 in
Lawndale , a small town in Logan County. On the evening of July 25, two giant birds appeared in the sky above Lawndale. The birds were reported several times as they circled and swooped in the sky. Finally, they headed straight down and reportedly attacked
three boys who were playing in the backyard of Ruth and Jake Lowe. One of the birds grasped the shirt of ten - year - old Marlon Lowe, snagging its talons into the cloth. The boy tried in vain to fight the bird off then cried loudly for help.
The boy’s cries brought Marlon’s mother running outside. She later reported that she had seen the bird actually lift the boy from the ground and into the air. She screamed loudly and the bird released the child. It had carried him, at a height of about three feet, for a d istance of about forty feet. She was sure that if she had not come outside, the bird had been capable of carrying the boy away. Luckily, although scratched and badly frightened, Marlon was not seriously injured.
Four other adults appeared on the scene with in seconds of the attack. They described the birds as being black in color, with bands of white around their necks. They had long, curved beaks and a wingspan of at least 10 feet. The two birds were last seen flying toward some trees near Kickapoo Creek.
A
second version of the Lawndale event is as follows:
July 25, 1977 Lawndale Illinois it was around 8:30 p.m. when Marlon Lowe a 10 year old boy was running for his life. He was playing with two friends in his family back yard when suddenly out of no where two huge black birds came out of the sky and began pursuing one of Marlons friends Travis Goodwin happily, Travis managed to escape by jumping into the swimming pool. Then the two switched there attention to Marlon. Marlon ran away as fast as he could but it was not fast enough. As he w as running he felt the talons of one of the birds grip the shoulder straps of his sleeveless shirt. Next the boy weighing 65 lb. was lifted of the ground 10 ft. Screaming and shouting at the top of his lungs as the bird easi ly carried him 40 ft. through the air from the back yard to the front yard. His parents Ruth and Jake Lowe heard the screaming and ran out side so did two family friends working near by Ruth was the first to see this horrific sight that would froze her blo od. There her son was being abducted by a huge black bird resembling a Condor, punching up at its legs with all his might as his feathered kidnapper carried him aloft. Seconds later however, one of his punches must have hit home, because the bird suddenly opened his talons and dropped him to the ground before souring away with its mate. The four adults ran to the boy and discovered to there relief that except for a frayed shirt where the bird had grabbed him Marlon was physically ok. This is just one of the
many bizarre accounts on file featuring encounters in North America with giant birds. Birds that should be impossible but yet seem to exist. In the case of Marlon Lowe he and his parents said the bird most closely resembled a Andean Condor, a black vultur e like species with a wing span up to 10 ft. this species however is not native to North America. There is however a smaller version called the California condor which was once widely distributed across North America but by 1977 was virtually extinct in ei ther case the structure of the condors feet in incapable of lifting and transporting anything as heavy as a ten year old boy.
Three days later, a McLean County farmer spotted a bird of the same size and description flying over his farm. He, his wife, and
several friends were watching radio - controlled airplanes when the bird flew close to the models. He claimed the bird had a wingspan of again, at least 10 feet across. It dwarfed the small planes that buzzed close to it.
The next sighting took place near B loomington
when a mail truck driver named James Majors spotted the two birds. He was driving from
Armington
to Delevan
when she saw them alongside of the highway. One of the birds dropped down into a field and snatched up a small animal. He believed the tw o birds were probably condors, but with 8 to 10 foot wingspans!
On July 28, Lisa Montgomery of Tremont
was washing her car when she looked up and saw a giant bird crossing the sky overhead.
At 2:00 AM on Saturday, July 30, Dennis Turner and several friends
from Downs
reported a monstrous bird perched on a telephone pole. Turner claimed that the bird dropped something near the base of the pole. When police officers investigated the sighting, they found a huge rat near the spot.
Reports of giant birds continu ed to come in from Bloomington and the north central Illinois area, then finally further south, from Decatur to Macon and Sullivan. On July 30, the same day the birds were reported near Bloomington, a writer and construction worker named "Texas John Huffer " filmed two large birds while fishing at Lake Shelbyville . Huffer was a resident of Tuscola and was spending the day with his son when they both spotted the birds roosting in a tree. Huffer frightened the birds with his boat horn and when they took flight , he managed to shoot over 100 feet of film. He sold a portion of the footage to a television station in Champaign for a newscast. Huffer said that the largest bird had a wingspan of over 12 feet.
After the footage aired, experts were quick to dismiss Huff er’s claims, along with the reports of everyone else who reported the birds. Officials from the Department of Conservation insisted the birds were "merely" Turkey Vultures
of the species
cathartes aura . Not surprisingly, these claims were also refuted by wildlife experts and cryptozoologists who stated that no turkey vultures were of the size reported by witnesses. The largest flying bird in North America is the California Condor, which h as a wingspread of up to 9 feet. The Condor is also on the endangered species list and is restricted to a few areas in California. There is little chance that a few stray birds traveled to Illinois to attack small children!
Another tale, related by Loren C oleman, involved the killing of a giant bird in December 1977. Strangely, this event also took place near Lawndale . Apparently a woman was on her way to work one morning when she saw something that looked like "a man standing in the road with something ove r its arms". The woman collapsed and was hospitalized, but later recovered. A group of men, after hearing this report, went to the spot, killed a large bird and then burned the body. The story was kept under wraps for some time for fear of ridicule.
So, w hat are these creatures? Some cryptozoological researchers like Loren Coleman believe that these thunderbirds may be Teratorns , a supposedly extinct bird that once roamed North and So uth America. If these prehistoric survivors are still around today, they could certainly account for the reports of the giant birds.
At this point, such creatures remain a mystery but one thing is sure, the sightings have continued over the years and occas ionally an unusual report still trickles in from Central Illinois. So keep that in mind the next time that you are standing in an open field and a large, dark shadow suddenly fills the sky overhead. Was that just a cloud passing in front of the sun... or s omething else??
GIANT BIRD UPDATE:
As late as Wednesday October 16, 2002, in an article published in the Anchorage Daily News, and also picked up by the wire services, reported "a giant winged creature like something out of Jurassic Park" sighted several times in Southwest Alaska. (source)
Thanks red clays. I have heard some of these stories but it makes one wonder. I guess they mainly prey on children. I have never heard of a case of an adult being abducted. Say for instance this is true I wonder how many children, seen on milk cartoons, could have been abducted by these birds and be fed to their young. I would reason that the supposed birds are looking for food and not the take their victims to a tea party.
Edited by eaglecap - 15-Oct-2009 at 16:22
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
I think that the sitings are large examples of known species. Estimating the size of aerial objects can be very difficult, even for expreienced observers since references for determining the distance the object (bird) is from the observer can be very difficult to find or difficult to judge accurately.
Then factor in that most of the big bird observers are not experienced bird watchers, biologists etc and the size of the birds can grow very quickly.
I think that the sitings are large examples of known species. Estimating the size of aerial objects can be very difficult, even for expreienced observers since references for determining the distance the object (bird) is from the observer can be very difficult to find or difficult to judge accurately.
Then factor in that most of the big bird observers are not experienced bird watchers, biologists etc and the size of the birds can grow very quickly.
I agree that ascertaining distance is difficult, however, several of these incidents occurred on the ground and within a reasonable distance of several groups of people. The best estimates of wing span comes from these sightings. Several involved in the sightings put wingspans at 16-20 feet in width. When your talking wing spans over 12 feet, your talking previously unknown species.
When your talking wing spans over 12 feet, your talking previously unknown species.
If it is an unknown species, how has it managed to stay hidden in densely populated parts of the U.S. for so long? I can see a large but reclusive animal remaining hidden in isolated areas, but I think that a large aggressive bird would have met some birdshot by now.
The Thunderbird is a symbol amongst many of the tribes in the southwest of the USA and probably N. Mexico. Do they exist? I am not sure but if I see one I will tell ya'll. Don't hold your breath too long!!
Now here is my kind of Thunderbird!!
image by wallpapershell.com
or
image by flightglobal.com
but really this is what we mean:
Here is a short story from online about the legend of the Thunder bird but it is one of many myths I am sure. I love Native American myth.
Legend of the Thunderbird
In the time long ago, it is said that animals shared many of the same qualities as people. Once a giant killer whale ate all the salmon in the ocean. Humans began to starve. Although the chiefs begged the whale to leave, it repeatedly mocked them.
Finally, a congress of the greatest chiefs was convened. after a time, a great wind blew in from the sea. lightning flashed, thunder roared. They felt the presence of an great invisible spirit. "if I were to help you, what will you do for me? "The spirit asked. The chiefs promised, for all time, to reproduce the spirits likeness as a sign of admiration and respect.
Thus, satisfied with their promises, Thunder bird appeared. He was an enormous manifestation with lightning flashing from his pointed talons and thunder rolling from his sun-blocking wings. Snatching up the Killer Whale the raptor spirit dropped it into the land where it solidified into a mountain.
source of story is:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dthunderbird%26ei%3Dutf-8%26fr%3Dsfp&w=216&h=177&imgurl=www.arrowgiftshop.com%2Fmedia%2FThunderbird.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arrowgiftshop.com%2FTbirds.html&size=14k&name=Thunderbird+jpg&p=thunderbird&oid=c78eaa05779e35e6&fr2=&no=4&tt=1099754&sigr=118mt1iic&sigi=11bcmv1r0&sigb=12a85i7ln
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
Not recently. I think that the various species of Thunderbirds are rare and getting rarer. Especially the terestrial species.
I remain open to this but I need more proof that they exist. I have heard the stories about sighting, which could be sensationalized for the TV. The Sci-fi does a show about this or is it the History Channel?
Once I did see a large bird soaring in the sky that looked unusually larger. Sometimes the atmosphere can make things appear larger- who know?? I was backpacking along the Sespe Creek in California's Las Padres National Forest when I saw it. It was soaring by some huge cliffs called the Topa Topa Ridge, and I thought it was a hang glider at first. The area is roadless wilderness so there is no way to get a hang glider that far back. The trek to the cliffs is roadless and trailess and since it is part of the Condor sanctuary entry was illegal. The California Condors were still in captivity but they had released some young Andean condors as sort of an experiment. I think it was a golden eagle.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
And, as a memorial to "monsters from the sky", this thread should be kept in the dust bin!
Except for a few possible connections to animals, fish and birds long extinct, I would suggest that ancient accounts of these "gigantic" creatures is merely the fact, that in nature, and within geology, and other Earth sciences, there does occasionally occur the natural exposure of long calcified remains of great creatures, that we today would refer to as dinosaurs, or later mamilian gigantic creatures, like the Mastadon, or the Gian Sloth, whose stone or maybe even still bone like remains naturally are exposed, especially where there exists large cliffs, that naturally shed their exterior portions during great rains, or storms, etc.!
These remains were most regularly found in certain areas, like the "White Chalk cliffs of Dover", and in various areas in the Med.! Especially in Greece!
As regards the so called "first hand accounts" of the giant flying birds in America, I say "bunkus!" laugh!
And, as a memorial to "monsters from the sky", this thread should be kept in the dust bin!
Except for a few possible connections to animals, fish and birds long extinct, I would suggest that ancient accounts of these "gigantic" creatures is merely the fact, that in nature, and within geology, and other Earth sciences, there does occasionally occur the natural exposure of long calcified remains of great creatures, that we today would refer to as dinosaurs, or later mamilian gigantic creatures, like the Mastadon, or the Gian Sloth, whose stone or maybe even still bone like remains naturally are exposed, especially where there exists large cliffs, that naturally shed their exterior portions during great rains, or storms, etc.!
These remains were most regularly found in certain areas, like the "White Chalk cliffs of Dover", and in various areas in the Med.! Especially in Greece!
As regards the so called "first hand accounts" of the giant flying birds in America, I say "bunkus!" laugh!
I am sure what I saw in the s. California wild was a golden eagle. I have hiked all over big foot country and have yet to see even a glimpse of big foot. I mean from the S. Cascade wilds in N. California all the way through to S. BC Canada and nada,zip, nothing. Also, the Blue Mountains which straddle the Oregon-Washington border, close to Walla Walla, and I saw nada. Someone wrote a book about the big foot in the Blue Mountains. I have seen plenty of elk, bear and signs of mtn lion but no big foot, let alone thunder birds.
I am not sure if thunder birds exist but I am always open minded about this but skeptical till I see one. Hopefully when I do see one it won't eat me----
Most of the wilderness treks I did in the Cascade Range was in the State of Washington, where I use to live. Eastern side near Idaho!
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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