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The Last Day of WWI: SBS TV, 8:30-9:30 p.m., 28 August 2009.

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  Quote RonPrice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Last Day of WWI: SBS TV, 8:30-9:30 p.m., 28 August 2009.
    Posted: 28-Aug-2009 at 21:00
END OF WAR

Tonight I watched a doco entitled As it Happened: The Last Day of World War I.1   There were many items of interest in this documentary to me as a teacher of history for over three decades in schools on two continents. There were facts and visual specifics of heightened interest to me personally, psychologically and religiously.  The last man in the British Commonwealth killed just two minutes before the peace was signed at eleven in the morning was a Canadian, one George Lawrence Price, perhaps a distant cousin in my Welsh-Canadian family. I will never know.

The Tablets of the Divine Plan now included in many books in Bahá'í libraries were published after World War I in Star of the West Vol. IX No. 14 on November 23, 1918 just twelve days after this armistice.  This small volume collectively refers to 14 letters or tablets written between September 1916 and March 1917 by `Abdu'l-Bahá to the Bahá'ís of the United States and Canada..  They were then publicly unveiled five months later, in April 1919, at the National Convention of the Baha’is of the United States and Canada.

Four of the letters were addressed to the Bahá’í community of North America and ten subsidiary ones were addressed to five specific segments of that community, provinces and states of the United States and Canada.  Of primary significance was the role of leadership given to its recipients in establishing the Baha’i Cause throughout the planet by a process that became popularly known in the international Bahá'í community by the mid-1930s as pioneering.  This was a process of introducing a Faith that claimed to be the emerging world religion on the planet into the many countries, regions and islands mentioned in those same tablets.

These collective letters, along with the Founder’s, Bahá'u'lláh’s, Tablet of Carmel and His Son’s, `Abdu'l-Bahá's, Will and Testament were described by the legitimate successor and authoritative interpreter of this Faith, Shoghi Effendi--as three of the Charters of the Bahá'í Faith.-Ron Price with thanks to SBS TV, 8:30-9:30 p.m., 28 August 2009.

One war to end all wars
and another one to begin
another set---but this one
on a totally different plane
of our existence and a war
which I would be engaged
in all my days, to my last..
breath, little did I know....

But this new one had no guns,
swords or uniforms; the battle
would be waged to the four....
corners of the earth until the...
very foundations of old order
had gone and a new one would
be spread out in its stead in a
process mysterious, subtle and
quite insinuatingly unobtrusive.

Ron Price
29 August 2009

Ron Price is a retired teacher, aged 64(in 2008). He taught for 35 years in primary, secondary and post-secondary schools. He lives with his wife in Tasmania. He has been a Baha'i for 50 years.
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  Quote shalligettoblighty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2009 at 11:22

According to CWGC records, the last British soldier killed in the First World War was Private George Edwin Ellison of the 5th Royal Irish Lancers. He was killed at Mons (where he had also fought in 1914) at 9.30 a.m. - just 90 minutes before the ceasefire. The last French soldier to die was Augustin Trebuchon from the 415th Infantry Regiment. He was a runner and was in the process of taking a message to his colleagues at the front informing them of the ceasefire. He was hit by a single shot and killed at 10.50 a.m. In total, 75 French soldiers were killed on this last day of war, but their graves state that they died on 10 November. Two theories have been forwarded for this discrepancy. The first is that by stating that they died on 10 November before the war had ended, there could be no question about their family’s entitlement to a war pension. The other theory is that the French government wanted to avoid any form of embarrassment or political scandal should it ever become known that so many died on

the last day of the war. The last Canadian to die was Private George Lawrence Price of the Canadian Infantry (2nd Canadian Division) who was killed at Mons at 10.58 a.m. Officially, Price was the last Commonwealth soldier to be killed in the war. 

The last American soldier killed was Private Henry Gunter who was killed at 10.59 a.m. Official records state that Gunter was the last man to die in the First World War. His unit had been ordered to advance and take a German machine gun post. It is said that even the Germans who knew that they were literally minutes away from a ceasefire tried to stop the Americans attacking, but when it became obvious that this had failed, they fired on their attackers and Gunter was killed. Information about German casualties is more difficult to ascertain. Records suggest that the last German casualty of the First World War was a junior German officer called Tomas who approached some Americans to tell them that the war was over and that they could have the house he and his men were just vacating. However, no one had told the Americans that the war had finished because of a communications breakdown and Tomas was shot as he approached them after 11.00 a.m.
 
Officially over 10,000 men were killed, wounded or went missing on 11 November 1918. 10,000 husbands, fiancé’s, fathers, sons, brothers, nephews and friends lost to the world after the war was supposedly over. The Americans alone suffered over 3,000 casualties. When these losses became public knowledge, such was the anger at home that Congress held a hearing regarding the matter. In November 1919, Pershing faced a House of Representatives Committee on Military Affairs that examined whether senior army commanders had acted accordingly in the last few days of the war. However, no one was ever charged with negligence and Pershing remained unapologetic, still convinced that the Germans had got off lightly with the terms of the Armistice. He also stated that although he knew about the timing of the Armistice, he simply did not trust the Germans to carry out their obligations and therefore, as Commander in Chief, ordered the army to carry on as it would normally do just as any judicious commander would have done. Pershing also claimed that he was merely carrying out the orders of the Allies Supreme Commander, Marshall Ferdinand Foch - to pursue the ‘Field Greys’ (Germans) until the last minute of the war.
From 'Shall I get to Blighty?' by Harold George Macklon (my great great uncle who survived WW1 and wrote a memoir of his experiences) and Mandy Stidard (me)  http://www.shalligettoblighty.co.uk/index.htm
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2009 at 13:22
As a side note, French and German casualties continued after November 11, 1918. The Germans because military veterans formed left and right wing militia factions that quickly began to fight each other. Hundreds of men lost their lives in street battles in the weeks and months following the armistance.
 
The French also lost hundreds of lives because they had to (or felt they had to) restore full French authority to several colonial areas that began to move towards independence after France sent local troops to the fighting in Europe.
 


Edited by Cryptic - 16-Oct-2009 at 13:47
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2009 at 14:49
To the posters on this subject, my admiration upon you all! It is a sorry fact that it seems every war is subject to un-necessary death, even after the fact of peace enters the field of fire. Witness the numerous Japanese soldiers who never heard of the surrender or either failed to acknowledge it, continued to fight a war that had ended many years earlier. And, in the past, there was always the problem with communication! Thus whilst peace was being made, the news of the peace took either days, weeks, or months to reach those men in the field of fire! The final battle of New Orleans against the British is a prime example!

If, indeed there is ever a limited atomic war, just how long would it take to notify everyone of a ceasefire if the EMT destroyed all modern means of communication?
Ron Hughes

Thomas Carlyle:
"History, a distillation of rumour."
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  Quote shalligettoblighty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2009 at 20:53
Thanks Cryptic
 
I never knew that. Sometimes it breaks your heart to think of all that dreadful loss of life due to peoples concepts of loyalty and fighting for one's country. Like they say - no-one ever wins a war.
 
Mandy
 
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  Quote RonPrice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2009 at 05:33
I enjoyed reading this thread which eventuated from my initial post. I saw the last part of this same series on TV this evening and wrote the following prose-poem. It is written from a quite personal and religious perspective in which I trust readers at this site will indulge me knowing, as I do, the massive anti-religious sentiments cutting across the values and beliefs of our secular and contemporary world. Keep in mind as you read this, though, that WW1 and WW2 were dominated by the new religions of nationalism, racialism and communism which killed more people than all the religious wars in history.-Ron Price, Tasmania
---------------------------------
THE VERY GREAT WAR

The Treaty of Versailles was one of the peace treaties at the end of World War I.  It ended the state of war between Germany and the Allied Powers. It was signed on 28 June 1919 exactly five years after the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand a critical event that led to the start of the war. The other Central Powers on the German side of World War I were dealt with in separate treaties.  Although the armistice signed on 11 November 1918 ended the actual fighting, it took six months of negotiations at the Paris Peace Conference to conclude the peace treaty. These days of negotiation were “the most momentous days in the history of the world.”(1)

In 1913 ‘Abdu’l-Bahá returned  to Palestine from His western teaching trip, a journey which Shoghi Effendi referred to in 1944 as “a service of such heroic proportions that no parallel to it is to be found in the annals of the first Bahá'í century.”(2)  In the following year the Great War broke out in Europe.  Between March 26 and April 22, 1916, ‘Abdu’l-Baha revealed the first eight of His Tablets of the Divine Plan. The remaining six were revealed between February 2 and March 8, 1917 just before the entry of the United States into the war.  One hundred years ago even in peacetime it took time to get a message from Palestine to the United States.  The war, of course, introduced additional delays.  The first five of the Tablets were published in America in the September 8, 1916 issue of Star of the West a major Bahá'í publication of the time. The remainder would not be sent until after the war ended.  They were unveiled at a special Bahá'í convention in New York City held from April 26 to 30, 1919.

'Abdu'l-Bahá makes reference in the longest tablet of the entire collection, to an army, a heavenly army arrayed for spiritual rather than physical battle.  Filled with the love of God, this army marches into metaphorical battle with their chief weapons being their character, conduct and words. Reminding us of the Apostles of Christ, He calls upon the Bahá'ís of the United States and Canada to become Apostles of Bahá'u'lláh and to go forth into the world and teach. And the way to end all wars was as follows:

In brief.......O ye believers of God!
The text of the divine Book is this:
If two souls quarrel and contend
about a question of those divine
questions, differing and disputing,
both are wrong......The wisdom of
this incontrovertible law of God is
this: That between two souls from
amongst the believers of God, no
contention and dispute may arise;
that they may speak to each other
with infinite amity and love...and
should there appear the least trace
of controversy...they must remain
silent.....and both parties continue
their discussions no longer but ask
the reality of the question from the
Interpreter. This is the irrefutable..
command for the Very Great War.(3)

 1. “As It Happened: Paris 1918, Part 2,” National Film Board of Canada and France, 2008, SBS, 8:30 –9:30, 23 October 2009,
  2.  Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, Wilmette, 1957, p.279.
  3.  'Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of the Divine Plan, p. 53.
 --------------------
Posted for The History Forum--All Empires
On: 23/10/'09


Edited by RonPrice - 23-Oct-2009 at 05:38
Ron Price is a retired teacher, aged 64(in 2008). He taught for 35 years in primary, secondary and post-secondary schools. He lives with his wife in Tasmania. He has been a Baha'i for 50 years.
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  Quote shalligettoblighty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2009 at 07:53
Really interesting Ron. Thanks for sharing this. 
At the moment I am reading the biography of Vera Brittain (poet and writer) 'Testament of Youth'. It's an amaziing story of the wars as told by someone who lived through two of them (First and Second). I have just discovered from her that during the start of 1916 there was talk that the war would last for ten years and that the first seven years would be the worst. It is hard to imagine how totally heart-breaking this news must have been to people at the time, either fighting in the war - or losing loved ones because of it.
Mandy
 
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2009 at 14:06
Mandy, thanks, but I am not sure what I really shared with you? chuckle! WWI, is in many ways the last war where some chivalry remained on the battlefield, but this was of course, only in the nature of the men of status who actually became the officer corps! Other wise, they played war, as they would play a game of chess! Well to capture the Rook, maybe I will sacrifice a Pawn?, etc. The pawns were the average man in the trenches!

By the way, whilst I have not travelled extensively within Italy, I have traveled some across the Italian Alps, from the Brenner pass to the train ride under the mountian into Austria, as well I have toured Pisa, Florenza, Roma, and but driven thru Napoli back to our cruise ship! But then we sailed to Venice, were we also toured Padua, etc. In short, I would like to spend about 10 years in Italy and really see it! So, it is with some envy that I see that you now reside there! Momma Mia! Share some of it with us, if you can? Is it really "La dolca vita?" (sp?)
Regards,
Ron Hughes

Thomas Carlyle:
"History, a distillation of rumour."
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  Quote RonPrice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2009 at 15:46
Again, thanks for your responses---from Tasmania...Ron
Ron Price is a retired teacher, aged 64(in 2008). He taught for 35 years in primary, secondary and post-secondary schools. He lives with his wife in Tasmania. He has been a Baha'i for 50 years.
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  Quote shalligettoblighty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2009 at 06:56
Originally posted by opuslola

Mandy, thanks, but I am not sure what I really shared with you? chuckle! WWI, is in many ways the last war where some chivalry remained on the battlefield, but this was of course, only in the nature of the men of status who actually became the officer corps! Other wise, they played war, as they would play a game of chess! Well to capture the Rook, maybe I will sacrifice a Pawn?, etc. The pawns were the average man in the trenches!

By the way, whilst I have not travelled extensively within Italy, I have traveled some across the Italian Alps, from the Brenner pass to the train ride under the mountian into Austria, as well I have toured Pisa, Florenza, Roma, and but driven thru Napoli back to our cruise ship! But then we sailed to Venice, were we also toured Padua, etc. In short, I would like to spend about 10 years in Italy and really see it! So, it is with some envy that I see that you now reside there! Momma Mia! Share some of it with us, if you can? Is it really "La dolca vita?" (sp?)
Regards,
Hi
 
Apologies for the delay in responding... its amazing how many friends decide to visit once you live abroad! I live in the region of Abruzzo, about an hour and a half from the recent earthquakes (we felt them slightly here but no damage). It is a truly beautiful part of the world - warm blue sea on one side and stunning (some-times) snow capped mountains on the other. There aren't many places you can live that give you all of that and also luch green countryside and idyllic valleys and towns too. Its not perfect - but its pretty close! Thanks for your interest! M
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  Quote shalligettoblighty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2009 at 07:02
On another note - we also live ten minutes away from a WW2 English cemetry, which is very sad and beautiful. It is kept in remarkable condition by the war graves commission. Last Rememberance Day we visited at 11 expecting a small service and were horrified to find one Italian family playing football there with their children - and no-one else. This year we have rallied a few ex pats (theres not many living here) and there should be about eleven of us from around the region. Some-one has also made a wreath and another will be wearing his medal (not sure what its for). Just wanted to share this with you. Just a little bit of ex pat life in Italy I suppose.
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2009 at 09:28
Originally posted by opuslola

Other wise, they played war, as they would play a game of chess! Well to capture the Rook, maybe I will sacrifice a Pawn?, etc. The pawns were the average man in the trenches!
 
Seventy-eight  British or Dominion General Officers were killed during WWI. In addition, casualties for schools enrolling the social elites such as Eton (Britain), La Sorbonne (France) or Princeton were proportionatly higher than casualties for the general population.
 
I think the fact that the upper classes did their part and that a proportionate number of generals were killed while leading prevented socialist uprisings in Britain and France either during the war or immediately following the war. 


Edited by Cryptic - 03-Nov-2009 at 10:29
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2009 at 13:57
Cryptic, there is no doubt that in general (a play on words?) the officer corps of GB, were a brave bunch in WWI! It was, of course, their "obligation" (Noblis Oblige) to be both leaders and order folowers! Thus, just as in other wars, the youngest of the Corps, the Lt.'s, and Majors, etc., were also expected to expose them selves before the enemy to show the "boys" that they were brave! IE, "Follow me lads!" I am sure their sign(s) of rank were adequately exposed to the enemy in like manner! But, the fact that you brought up, IE, "Seventy-eight British or Dominion General Officers were killed, etc.", means those in rank above Major? Thus Colonels and higher? I would suppose that a lot of this happened because the war became a "bunker war" and even "Generals" had to be somewhat close to the front, and long range artillery could generally (another one?) reach well to the rear of the lines, and as well, the killing power of aircraft quite possibly also caused more damage to Generals, and Colonels, etc., compared to wars previous? So, we might well claim a higher than ususal death percentage in this war, than in those preceeding it!

As regards your last words, I think there might well be a good deal of merit in them!

Edited by opuslola - 03-Nov-2009 at 13:59
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  Quote shalligettoblighty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2009 at 00:50
"The ‘Staff’ were considered to lead an entirely different and fortunate life when compared with the miserable and dangerous existence endured by the officers and men in the Front Line. The most senior commanders usually lived with their staff in a requisitioned chateau, or similar structure that could be as far as 30 miles away from the action on the Front. For example, the French Field Marshal Joffre always travelled with a personal chef and kitchen to ensure his culinary requirements were properly catered for and considered his lunch break - and subsequent afternoon nap - as sacred."
From 'Shall I get to Blighty?' by Harold George Macklon & Mandy Stidard
 
Mandy
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Nov-2009 at 08:17
Originally posted by opuslola

"Seventy-eight British or Dominion General Officers were killed, etc.", means those in rank above Major? Thus Colonels and higher?
The term "general officer" could mean Brigadier General and higher. It could also mean full Colonel and higher. I think that full Colonels are considered "general officers" in the U.S. Army.
 
If the term "General Officer" means Brigadier and higher, I am aware of only three U.S. Generals that were killed in WWII. This number includes Patton who was killed in a vehicle accident immedialty after the surrender. Likewise, I do not think that anywhere near 78 U.S. generals and full colonels died in WWII. The 78 fatalities shows that WWI was still dangerous to senior commanders when one considers the smaller number of General officers serving.
Originally posted by opuslola

and long range artillery could generally (another one?) reach well to the rear of the lines, and as well, the killing power of aircraft quite possibly also caused more damage to Generals, and Colonels, etc., compared to wars previous?
I would definelty attribute alot of these deaths to artillery fire. To my knowledge, mass bombings of strafing by aircraft did not occur in WWI (with the exception of one incident in Palestine against  Turkish soldiers in the open).
Originally posted by shalligettoblighty

"The ‘Staff’ were considered to lead an entirely different and fortunate life when compared with the miserable and dangerous existence endured by the officers and men in the Front Line. The most senior commanders usually lived with their staff in a requisitioned chateau, or similar structure that could be as far as 30 miles away from the action on the Front.
True, I did not mean to imply that all generals faced the same degree of risk as say a trench private. The nature of the fighting, cultural expectations, and peer pressure, however, did place Brigade commanders, Divisional commanders and their respective staffs in close proximity to offensive and  defensive fighting.
 
Do you happen to know if full Colonels are or were considered to be "General Officers" by the British Army?
 


Edited by Cryptic - 04-Nov-2009 at 08:46
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