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Imenshegor
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Topic: Homeland and origin of ancient Bulgarians Posted: 26-Aug-2009 at 04:09 |
Homeland and origin of ancient Bulgarians
For nearly two centuries now, and our foreign scientists
izasnyavaneto dealing with the origin of ancient Bulgarians called in
our historiography, or even great parvobalgari. Here for a short call
them just as the Bulgarians were called and they themselves. It has
been alleged about 17 hypotheses about the ancestral origins and the
Bulgarians. At the dawn of Bulgarian historiography, it was thought
that the ancient Bulgarians are Slavs, Finno-fine or local population.
Later, after the liberation was built as the official theory Hunnish
origin of Bulgarians. Some scholars mistakenly identify with the Turks
and Huns, this led to consolidation of the Turkic theory of the origin
of Bulgarians. Moreover, this theory completely coincides with our
foreign policy after the Second World. According to this theory, the
Bulgarians have been predominantly nomadic Mongoloid features of the
Turkic-Altaic language family and thus the Bulgarian politicians have
decided the expense of our relationship with the ancient Bulgarians to
require that the modern Bulgarians etnogenezisa largest holdings into
Slavs and thus we approximate with the Soviet Union, where Russians
play a leading role. Turkic theory today is still an official in the Bulgarian
history, however, is increasingly gaining force the Iranian theory of
the origin of ancient Bulgarians. Her supporters are Georgi Bakalov,
Peter Dobrev, Atanas Stamatov, Bozidar Dimitrov and others. According
to her Bulgarians are a nation of Iranian language group that is Aryan.
It gives the most satisfactory explanation and interpretation of data with which we have for the Bulgarians.
Bulgarians appear in Europe and the lands just north of the
Caucasus in the first half of this 4 th century Latin chronograph
Anonymous speaks of 354g. Where Bulgarians are mentioned next to
gimnosofistite which in turn are adjacent to the Armenians. Therefore,
the Bulgarians appear in Europe before the Chinese even to mention the
Turks in their springs in the VI century, so that only excludes the
possibility that the Bulgarians are Turks. And also before the Huns to
cross the Volga River in 360-370g Bulgarians appear in Europe, probably under pressure from the
Huns or with late sarmati. But where do they come from? What are their
earliest mansions? What is their origin? These questions will try to answer in the next series.
Source:
Two sources tell us where to look for ancestral Bulgarians -
Armenian geography "Ashharatsuyts" in VII century and "Chronicle" of
Michael Syrian from XII century. In Ashharatsuyts "among 15 trade and craft people and nation is
mentioned bhuh (bulh according Eremyan reading) inhabited the region of
the Pamir-Hindukush. The same source named bulhi mentions and the
Bulgarians from Caucasus. In the "Chronicle" of Syrian Michael did mention the following:
"At that time (departed) three brothers from Inner Scythia leading
with her 30 thousand Scythians and they did one time of 65 days from
the mountains beyond Imeon ... When reached within Romaic one of them
named Bulgarios took 10 thousand Scythians and separated from his
brothers ... " It is believed that Michael has used Syrian intelligence from an
unknown author, which in turn has used information from the card V-VI
c. This information, albeit with a semi-legendary locate ancestral
character of the Bulgarians, Tsentrlana somewhere in Asia by country
today's China, we can not determine precisely because Imeon is an
ancient name for the system of Central Asian mountain ranges including
today's Hindu Kush mountains, Pamir and Tian Shan, extending from the
Zagros Mountains of southwest to northeast Altai related Kunlun,
Karakoram and Himalayas to the southeast. . The other nations mentioned
in this note (ie descendants of the other two brothers) are pugurite
gambling and that, if nothing else, at least say that there was also a
later exodus of Bulgarians to Europe in V-VI century and that at least
part of Bulgarians lived in the vicinity of the Khazars and pugurite. Once you locate the ancient ancestral Bulgarians in Central Asia
would normally be assumed that it is quite possible to their ethnic
name mentioned in Chinese historical sources. First for this
opportunity guesses historian Dimitar Sasalov that back in 1936 in his
book "The Way of Bulgaria" opens the mention of the Bulgarian national
name in Chinese sources, but who knows, you may have unwittingly
perhaps intentionally, most historians today do not pay attention to
the large contribution of Sasalov Bulgarian historical science. In Chinese sources because there are settlements of Bulgarians
in different places they are mentioned by different characters - a dear,
in you, in you ho, ho-pot, bu-Louis and others. Even De Groot, however,
(from whose book draws Sasalov information) as mentioned Sasalov says
that they are the same people. For the first time, Bulgarians are mentioned in Chinese sources
in 127 BC around the lake today Borkul West China and East Turkestan
exactly with hieroglyphs ON-le, and most are painted behind, which is
probably hiding the Bulgarian national name De Groot relied upon as
BOLOR. If this reading, it wakes up any doubts in reading hieroglyphs
sweat-ho by De Groot no doubt lies the Bulgarian national name. De
Groot rely sweat-ho as Bolhor. State Bolhor mentioned in Chinese
chronicles Wei-Shu: "... The State of sweat-ho is situated west of the Pan-Kat-it
(Garband). The country is still cold, so that people and animals live
together in the caves of the soil. Also there are high snowy mountains
in the distance that resemble silver tops. (There are) only peksimet
and eat parched corn, drink prepared from wheat (rye) and brandy in
wear woolen clothes. There are two routes, namely the one that goes
west and headed to Yep's (Heftal) and one that leads south through
O-tiang (Udiana). As we see the chronicle of that country Bolhor be located between Karakoram Tarim rivers and Yarkandarya-huh.
Moreover, communication in general most Bulgarians are mentioned as inhabitants of the region of the Pamir and Karakoram.
Entirely possible that the Bulgarians have lived some of the
Central Asia region simultaneously, but whereas "Ashharatsuyts,"
"Chronicle" of Michael Syrian and Chinese sources the largest
settlements of the Bulgarians would have been, as already mentioned
above in the region of the Pamir-Hindukush and Karakoram.
ARCHAEOLOGICAL DATA:
Longer is spread
idea that Bulgarians are nomads,
although still in the VI century Zachary Ritor mentions in his "Church
History," the Bulgarians, or at least some of them are towns. Coming
south of Danube Bulgarians come with their own construction equipment
and techniques other than the then Byzantine construction. Hardly
nomads could build such monumental building as a Krum's palace in Pliska , which significantly exceeds its size throne room of Theodoric
in Ravenna and Charlemagne in Aachen. Or nomads, would hardly have
built buildings in Saltovo mayatskata-culture and those in Dagestan. Also in question are Iranian arhetecture lines in Bulgarian.
According to Andrej Protic, Bogdan Filov and Geza Feher parallels of
the palace buildings in Pliska and Preslav are found in traditional
Persian architecture and in particular mansion in Hatra II-III century III Firusabad century Sarvistan V-VI century and
no doubt that the ancient Bulgarian temples have their direct analogues
in the Iranian fire temples. Madara Horseman also has analogues in the face of such Iranian
monuments such parallels can be considered the relief of Shapur I of
Naksh-i-Rustam.
In the art of ancient Bulgarians also found Iranian features. The
images of simurg open court and on the application and a griffin on the
application of Treasury issued Prevslavian gold treasure Iranian influence,
because these things are characteristic of Iranian mythology. Another important element of the culture of the Bulgarians is
their runic script it looks like most of the Runic alphabet in the
Caucasus (68 Character match) and Turkic (35 pcs.), But should be
considered as the investigator wrote to the Bulgarian runic alphabet
Bono Shkodrov that Turks drawing on their runic symbols in the region
of Bactria and Sogda. Archaeological surveys in the North Caucasus and around Azov sea, north
of the Black Sea and lower Danube provide enough information about the
racial type of the ancient Bulgarians. Bulgarians were brahikefally
Europoids, only 35 % of them are observed slight Mongoloid impurities.
According to Akimova sarmatian basis of anthropological and Bulgarians
is common. Calendar:
We will not dwell on the peculiarities of the Bulgarian calendar,
but only on the names of the calendar years pamirski and their
analogues, because I think that they alone are sufficient to highlight the relationship of the Bulgarians with Pamir peoples inhabiting today:
Bulgarian ancient analogue Pamirian language: Protobulgairan Pamirian Shegor (ox) Shegor (bull)
Vereni (dragon) Varan (giant lizard)
Teku(horse) Tayk (horse)
Toh (chicken ) Tuh (chicken )
Dohs(pig) Dovz (fat)
Dvan(rabbit Davan(tripping)
Dilom(snake) Igufs (snake)
Title:
1.Biri Bagain - Birr in pamirian languages are so named HORSE
lightly armed units, and Beers is the holder that is a form of
equestrian squad. 2.Bagatur Bagain - heavily armored cavalry, respectively, in the Pamir Bahadur, in Sassanid Persia during the 5-6c. Bagatur.
3. Izirgu Bagain - in the East Caucasus ISHARGU word means archer.
4. Uk-Bagain - pamirian word means Asplenium yoke team, but from
the same root word is the Bulgarian Uk (yoke) i these are units
consisting of soldiers and plated iron in bullock carts. He remembered
the battles of Krum. 5. Jupan - Jupa in the Pamir word means troops.
6. Boil - in Summerian senior nobles were called BALA.
7. Kolobar - in the Pamirs and Tibet are called priests and KULBAR KALOGUR and HULABAR.
8. Kan(Khan) - vaynahite called his elders Kana and KANO,Kano
means in Tibet and in duke. Huns in the main title
is Shanyi ,bulgar main title is KANASYBIGI. 9. Tarkan - meeting at sogdians.
LANGUAGE:
More in the 60-ies of XX V.Beshevliev analyzed and convincingly
proved by various examples that many of the names of Bulgarians are
Iranian. As such, it has set Asapruh, Bezmer Kubrat Gostun, Omurtag
Korsis, race them can also add your cheek, Vundt, Tervel, Krum and also
Zabergan. The last name is attested in the inscription of Shapur I of
Naksh-i-Rustam form Zik-Zabrigan . Words occurring in today's Bulgarian also have their analogues in the language of pamirskite nations, these are:
bashta(father), maika(mother), chicho(uncle), lelq(aunt), kaka(big sister),batko( big brother), kruchma(pub),kuche( dog) etc.. Word
kniga(book) does have its analogue in the Caucasus. To all this I'll add that in the lands around the Pamir has
Shumanay cities bearing the names, and Varnu ,Madre and area called
Palgar.
CONCLUSION:
Everything written here, you may conclude that the Bulgarians are
Iranian (Aryan) people sarmati probably came from Central Asia as a
moment in their mansions are located in the area of the
Pamir-Hindukush. And, why is it important to know and ancestral origin
of ancient Bulgarians? Because, among other things, we are direct descendants of their
blood, because Saltovo-mayatska culture dominates pontic race, which
prevails today among the Kazan Tatars (whose main contribution
in etnogenesis is on volga bulgars) and the Danube Bulgarians among us.
Sources:
Dimitar Sasalov - "Bulgarians two millennia ago "
Petar Dobrev - "Golden Fund of Bulgarian antiquity"
Todor Chobanov-"Legacy of Sassanid Persia Bulgarians on the lower Danube "
'Selected sources on Bulgarian history "first volume
History of Bulgaria for 11 class Planeta Publishing
"Reader in History of Bulgaria, Volume first
"Tatar Antropologian look" - http://xacitarxan.narod.ru/antropos.htm
Ludmil Lazarov - "Slavyanofilian "Journal of Pro and Anti Year 17, Number 13 (796)
Please excuse me for speling mistakes.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 26-Aug-2009 at 08:17 |
It is difficult to say ancient Bulgarians had Turkic, Iranian or Slavic origin, the obvious fact is that they lived in regions which were first inhabited by Iranian-speaking peoples, then Turkic and at last Slavic peoples, so there could be certainly some influences from these different cultures on Bulgarian culture, the interesing thing is that in Persian we call a a very mixed thing as "Balghur", very similar to Perian word for "Bulgarian", maybe because of the famous food Bulgur: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgur (a cereal food made from several different wheat species)
Anyway as you mentioned some old Bulgarian words really sound like Iranian words, it is possible that Bulgarians were originaly a Scythian tribe, some names like Asparukh (means "one who has shining horses" in Persian) and Sevar (Persian word for Cavalryman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sav%C4%81r%C4%81n_cavalry ) show that horse and horse-riding were very important for Bulgarians, like Scythians.
Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 26-Aug-2009 at 08:24
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Imenshegor
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Posted: 26-Aug-2009 at 10:12 |
My post is about bulgars(protobulgarians) not for today bulgarians who formed by bulgars ,slavic and thracians. Some bulgarian historians believe that the food Bulghur is invented from bulgars who were semi-nomads. Anthropological and cultural the bulgars is very similar with sarmatian. I believe that the bulgars was east sarmatian who lived near the sogdians,thocharians and west xiongnu.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 26-Aug-2009 at 11:15 |
In the northeast of Iran there are some place names which are similar to Bulgar, like Bolghur in Khorasan province: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/p6078354/bolghur.html of course if the name of Bulgar had an Iranian origin, the original name could be a little different, for example we know Old/Middle Persian "v" has usually been changed to "b" in Modern Persian (Like Old Persian Vazraka "great" and Modern Persian Bozorg) and we also know there was no "L" sound in Old Persian and Avestan languages, so I think the original name of Bulgar in the Iranian language could be Vourugaresti which has been mentioned in Avesta as one of the seven lands of ancient Iranian peoples in the northeast of the central land. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karshvar
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Imenshegor
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Posted: 26-Aug-2009 at 11:41 |
Thank you very much for information.
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Bulldog
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Posted: 27-Aug-2009 at 09:56 |
More fantasy stories, don't you find it weird that the only people who make such a huge deal about the theory of Bulgars being Turkic is some conspiracy believing Bulgarians?
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Imenshegor
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Posted: 27-Aug-2009 at 10:27 |
Proof that is fantasy story.Controvert me with facts.
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Shield-of-Dardania
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Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 04:50 |
Thracian -> Turkic, Scythian & Sarmatian -> Celts & Goths & Slavs.
That's very roughly the main evolutions in the southeastern European region, me thinks. Just an opinion. Please disagree if you will.
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Kanas_Krumesis
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Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 06:35 |
Originally posted by Shield-of-Dardania
Thracian -> Turkic, Scythian & Sarmatian -> Celts & Goths & Slavs.
That's very roughly the main evolutions in the southeastern European region, me thinks. Just an opinion. Please disagree if you will. |
To put in one group Thracian, Scythian & Sarmatian with Turkic is very strained. Answer me when the Turkic came in Europe region for the first time if you will.
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Shield-of-Dardania
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Posted: 26-Mar-2010 at 08:51 |
Not that strange, if you observe that Thracian eventually split into sveral branches, Western Scythian, Sarmatian and Western Turk being the most notable.
Thracian was the mother race for the three of them. Maybe you could add Western Cymmerian as well.
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Kanas_Krumesis
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Posted: 28-Mar-2010 at 12:35 |
I can`t observe such a thing, because it`ll be science fiction. Thracians were contemporary of Scythians, which lived in Scythia Minor along with Thracian tribes of Getae and get mixed. Also in their late period Thracians were contemporary with Sarmatians. But Western Turks... How Thracians would invent Turkic language when they were Indo-Europeans and Turkic trubes in that period lived east from Altai mountain (6000 km. away)? This is a clear non-sense but also great example of absurd Pan-Turkic sub-historic theories. They want to create image of Turkic impact into formation of European civilization, and when they couldn`t find a way to teleport Turkic tribes in late Antiquity from Far Asia they try to accredit Turkic entity to ancient autochthonal nations. You can check Pan-Turkic theory about Turkic origin of ancient Hittites- an attempt of modern Turks to assume role of oldest nation in Asia Minor.
Edited by Kanas_Krumesis - 28-Mar-2010 at 12:39
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Blood and Suicide
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Posted: 10-Sep-2010 at 08:57 |
Bulgarians, Huns main phrase is a branch 8.yüzyıla based on a text in the Bulgarian king Boris himself Atilla'or based on a genealogy published, Bulgarians and Huns Want Believe it or not Turkish are because the king names a few exceptions, the sincere are in Turkish
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Kanas_Krumesis
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Posted: 10-Sep-2010 at 11:19 |
Originally posted by Blood and Suicide
Bulgarians, Huns main phrase is a branch 8.yüzyıla based on a text in the Bulgarian king Boris himself Atilla'or based on a genealogy published, Bulgarians and Huns Want Believe it or not Turkish are because the king names a few exceptions, the sincere are in Turkish |
I`m not so sure what you exactly wanted to say. Learn some English (like others) and come here again. If you say something like "The ancient and modern Bulgarians have nothing to do with Turks". I`ll be agree with you
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Blood and Suicide
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Posted: 12-Sep-2010 at 06:43 |
sorry for the mistakes of translation programs, Bulgarian name is Turkish Bulgarian, Turkish also means derived
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Kanas_Krumesis
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Posted: 12-Sep-2010 at 13:12 |
The name "Bulgaria" is a Bulgarian I think, not Turkish. Bulgaria exist here in South-East Europe from 681 AD. The first mention of this name is in the Roman chronicle from 354 AD. Also in Armenian chronicles. So the name had been existed even before this. Where were Turks then?
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Blood and Suicide
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Posted: 23-Sep-2010 at 06:06 |
And Atilla the Hun is a Turk, Turks and Bulgarians, even sociological structures and life forms are nearly identical, normal Roman Chronicles pass, not a Turkish name does not indicate that they are not Turkish
Edited by Blood and Suicide - 23-Sep-2010 at 06:07
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Kanas_Krumesis
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Posted: 23-Sep-2010 at 14:37 |
About the origin of the name "Atilla" dispute with some Hun-garian. I don`t think that Hungarians were Turk (and Hungarians themselves as I know). How many citizens of the modern Turkey have a name "Atilla"? In Hungary this name is one of the most common.
BTW I never heard any Turk (in history) to have a name like this! May be Boris (ancient Bulgarian name) is also a Turkish?
Edited by Kanas_Krumesis - 23-Sep-2010 at 14:38
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Altar
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Posted: 23-Sep-2010 at 15:37 |
our elders were naming river Volga as Itil. If you wanna explain the "hometown or homeland" of some one, you normaly add "lli" words, for example if some is from "istanbul" or "izmir" we call him/her "istanbul-llu" or "izmir-li"
Atilla was coming from the "itil" area, which has to be named like "itil-lli" , and as you may guess, itilli became as attilla...
It is so clear.
And please note that many people had "atilla" names in turkey, you can just google...
After turks met arabian culture and islam, unfortuanelly "real" turkish names began to be replaced with arabian names (like many nordic names were replaced after the acceptance of christianity in nord lands, aaron, david, etc et took place!) that's why you'll not be able to find turkish names oftenly in history.
hope this helps to explain the origin..
regarding "boris", "bor" is not similar to any single turkish word and "is" does not have any effect to words (like the "lli" does mentioned above-top) so, boris is not turkish :)
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Kanas_Krumesis
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Posted: 23-Sep-2010 at 16:29 |
Interesting logic! So "izmir-li" became "izmir-lla". Then the Roman emperor Caracalla is also of Turkish origin! "Cara cale-li"- "Caracal-la". Kara in Turkish mean "black" and Kale mean "fortress". Caracalla! Or Caligu-la?!
Connection between "Itil" and name "Atilla" is a quite controversial. Hungarians say that the name Atilla is a Romanize version of old Hungarian "Atyácska"- (Golden Father). This is a deity in ancient Hungarian pantheon.
Edited by Kanas_Krumesis - 23-Sep-2010 at 16:30
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Altar
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Posted: 24-Sep-2010 at 16:37 |
what about the name "asparuh" ?
did you know that its origin is coming from name"isbara"?
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