Movies about Native Americans

Originally posted by Jams Seriously, I don't think Gibson really cared about the Maya, I think he was much more concerned with his thematic agendas. Going on about the inaccuracies doesn't really mean much, because deep down the movie is not about the Maya at all.   By the way, I agree that the first ten minutes of the movie was the best part of the whole movie, but it was just to show us the carefree noble savage ideal human in action, just to contrast with the cruel and corrupted civilised invaders. It was never meant to show us "life among the Mayas".   Conclusion - Gibson is a prick.

That's Apocalisis Now!

Originally posted by lirelou I loved the quote from Tracie whatever-her-name-was reference the Mayans in present day Guatemala (10 years ago) being "exterminated simply because they were Mayans". Not to understate the violence of that war, but who the hell does she suppose made up rank and file of the Guatemalan Army? Other Mayans.

 

 

Traci Ardren is her name and she has studied Mayan culture for a rather long time.

And that Mayans killed Mayans, well it´s not so unusual in colonial history that indigenous peoples were pitted against each other by the colonial rulers.

 

Even some Mayans themselves don´t seem to like how their ancestors are portraited in the Movie:

 

“Indigenous leaders in Guatemala have appealed to the government to censor a film they consider racist and offensive to Mayan descendents, their culture, and their history. The film is Apocalypto, directed by US actor and director Mel Gibson. Presidential commissioner against discrimination Ricardo Cajas told reporters on Jan. 8 of his intention to request that the Ministry of Culture condemn this film that "resumes racial and offensive persecution" against the country's Mayan majority.”

(GUATEMALAN ACTIVISTS AND INTERNATIONAL SCHOLARS FIND NEW MAYAN MOVIE RACIST, REVISIONIST, DANGEROUS TO INDIGENOUS.

Central American & Caribbean Affairs | January 25, 2007)

  

Originally posted by lirelou Apocalypto showed life in the Americas to be brutal, violent, and short, which from all availabe evidence, it was.

 

 

As it was in other parts of the world too (including parts of Europe) from time to time. And not all indigenous peoples in Americas always lived in a state of war and brutality.

 

Originally posted by lirelou And whatever the faults of the Roman Catholic church, even in the counter-reformation, it was definitely a step up from the "old tyme" religion of human sacrifice and self-mutilation.

 

 

I don´t know if inquisition, witch hunts, endless wars, flagellants, self starvers and mission by the sword is a very great improvement.

 

Originally posted by lirelou I keep hearing in this forum about how the movies (and books) portrayed native Americans in a negative light, but I frankly can't think of any from at least 1939 on. John Wayne's "Stagecoach"? How about "Hondo", or "the Searchers". They all looked pretty fair to me, given the context and point of view.  I think many posters here are searching for Rousseau's (and Engel's) noble savage despite their avowed rejection of that ideal.

 

Even a blockbuster like “Raiders of the Lost Arch” show Natives as screaming savages.

Originally posted by lirelou drgonzaga, I think you'll find that you are out of your element here. you sound like you've actually studied the subject in some depth, as opposed to obtaining your knowledge from popular novels, or movies. I loved the quote from Tracie whatever-her-name-was reference the Mayans in present day Guatemala (10 years ago) being "exterminated simply because they were Mayans". Not to understate the violence of that war, but who the hell does she suppose made up rank and file of the Guatemalan Army? Other Mayans. As for the boat, I took that to be a fair historical representation, and presumed it to be either Cortez searching for Gonzalo Guerrero and Jeronimo de Aguilar, or possibly a beaching party looking for a fresh water supply or other somesuch landing so common to voyages then. Apocalypto showed life in the Americas to be brutal, violent, and short, which from all availabe evidence, it was. And whatever the faults of the Roman Catholic church, even in the counter-reformation, it was definitely a step up from the "old tyme" religion of human sacrifice and self-mutilation. I keep hearing in this forum about how the movies (and books) portrayed native Americans in a negative light, but I frankly can't think of any from at least 1939 on. John Wayne's "Stagecoach"? How about "Hondo", or "the Searchers". They all looked pretty fair to me, given the context and point of view.  I think many posters here are searching for Rousseau's (and Engel's) noble savage despite their avowed rejection of that ideal.

Well, Lirelou, as you can witness from the lengthy tirade delivered by Carcharedon, you've raised his dander. As you know a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing particularly if its possessor has Internet! However, refuge behind the blather of passing opinion premised upon ideological prejudices is extremely dangerous if one is actually unfamiliar with the breadth of historical background and academic research. For example, Carcharedon has the Spanish Inquisition chasing after witches; obviously, he is unfamiliar with the investigatory decretal of the 1609 Tribunal that was set up consequent to the advent of the general witch craze that broke out in Europe at that time. That tribunal assigned mental derangement as the condition of people claiming to be witches and concluded that the popular hysteria was not only the product of ignorance but also forbade all discussions of witches, witchcraft and accusations of such as deletorious fancies.

Originally posted by drgonzaga For example, Carcharedon has the Spanish Inquisition chasing after witches; obviously, he is unfamiliar with the investigatory decretal of the 1609 Tribunal that was set up consequent to the advent of the general witch craze that broke out in Europe at that time. That tribunal assigned mental derangement as the condition of people claiming to be witches and concluded that the popular hysteria was not only the product of ignorance but also forbade all discussions of witches, witchcraft and accusations of such as deletorious fancies.

If someone is interested in reading about Native Americans in movies we also have a couple of books just to start with:

Originally posted by drgonzaga  By the way, Carch, the Inquisition had no authority over the Amerind, who, politically, were the direct vassals of the Crown and governed by their own cabildos.

  

I have no political agenda more than just an interest in these matters. Of course there were exterminations and wars against the indigenous peoples early on in the history of conquests. To claim other is to falsify history and not respect the integrity of the past.

    "All over the hemisphere there are still lot of pending problems with Amerindians, robbery, discrimination, injustice, etc."

"All over the hemisphere" is gross overstatement and detracts from the argument you are trying to make. Furthermore, many of the "pending problems" arise from local history and conditions that must be taken into account. While there are many common social problems, alcoholism, the breakdown of families, unemployment, underemployment, and a wide range of anti-social activities, not all the causes are easily addressed. For instance, the Chiapas rebellion's causes included an increase in Indian population that put greater pressure on limited land resources, wedded to a social conflict which was religious based, i.e., community members who left the Catholic church, and thereby no longer contributed to the Catholic religious festivals, were ostracized, and at times attacked by their neighbors for having joined Evangelical Protestant churches. I once had an interesting conversation in the "Plaza Garibaldi" of Mexico City with a Chaipaneco "pastor" whose vision of the conflict was stated in terms of a vast Masonic conspiracy directed by the Pope, who was a secret Mason. Luckily for them, their saviour was a pipe smoking Marxist who wrote in the third person and had meaningful conversations with a cricket. Not at all like the problems that face Brazilian indigenous communities, though the symptoms may appear similar. I've never seen any similar probelms on Canadian or U.S. Indigenous Reserves. Two U.S. Army officers I served with included a Major who was born a Tarahumara Indian in Chihuahua, and a (later) Lieutenant Colonel who had been born a Quechua speaker in Ayacucho, Peru. Coming to the U.S. had obviously opened up their horizons.

Well, Pinguin, when politics and economic competition meld one is confronted with strange cards, thus be careful when stating: