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Why Did The Black Death End The Middle Age?
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TheGreatSimba View Drop Down
Chieftain
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why Did The Black Death End The Middle Age?
    Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 14:34
Less populated and more isolated than other regions of Europe perhaps.

The black death was not something that spread evenly and affected all regions the same. In fact, there were some areas where entire populations were wiped out, and other places where the disease had limited affect.

I'm of the opinion that because that region of Poland at the time was more isolated and less populated, it was less affected.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 23-Jul-2010 at 14:36
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 15:01
But, Simba, great parts of this area existed within the so called "bread-basket" of the world!

These great plains and shallow valleys were, with the exception of a few cold periods, the grainery of the world!

Their products were sent to all parts of the world for centuries!

Certainly they could not have existed without exposure? No matter how few the producers?
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 16:17
Those parts of Poland which were not affected were isolated rural areas with low populations. This makes sense because even in areas that were heavily affected by the black death, the rural isolated parts of those regions were less affected.

I have no idea if that part of Poland was the bread basket of of the world, but I highly doubt that.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 23-Jul-2010 at 16:18
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 16:22
"I have no idea if that part of Poland was the bread basket of of the world, but I highly doubt that."

Then prove I am wrong?

You have asserted that I have been wrong before!
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 16:36
You made the claim. I dont have to disprove something that hasnt even been proven.

Poland and Lithuanian were the breadbasket of Europe (not the world) as a whole, but nothing is mentioned about that specific region being a part of that.

The Black Death peaked peaked between 1348 and 1350, this map also shows cities with repeated outbreaks up until the 18th century, and Gdansk is marked, meaning that certain regions of Poland were affected.

That specific region highlighted in the map, which also encompasses parts of Ukraine, according to what I read, was isolated and had a low population.



The theory that best explains why the black death had not affected that region, to me, is the one I stated above.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 23-Jul-2010 at 16:43
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 16:45
Please look up Ukraine as a bread basket?

When you have gotten in deep enough as I have, you might even find out that Switzerland imported grain from this region!
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 17:06
Poland started to feed the rest of Europe a century later and the highest amount of grain was being sell in the 16th/17th century.
 
 
But it is hard to say that those parts of Poland which were not affected were isolated rural areas with low populations. Why? because it was during the reign of king Casimir the Great - and these areas on the map are moreless the same as the borders of Poland that time. The north - Gdanks - was occupied by the Teutonic Order. The part of Ukraine - was part of Poland. For Poland it was time of o0ne of the greatest periods of prosperity and investments (during his reign Casimir built 53 castles, fortiefied 27 cities,  built about 100 new cities, built first Polish university) He reigned in years 1333-1370 so during the Black Death in western Europe. And areas east of Poland were affected by the Black Death inspite of the fact that were much less developed and populated than Poland was.
 
Map of Poland to compare with map of Black Death affected areas - during the reign of Casimir the Great:
 
 
 
 


Edited by Mosquito - 23-Jul-2010 at 17:10
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Posts: 555 		  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 17:25
TGS is in essence correct. Sparser population, more isolation, lack of infrastructure and well developed commerical and transport links, the topography itself doesnt lend itself well to the spread of the disease.  Compare say to the Mediterranena dn Western Europe, which had all of the above much better than that region of Poland, spread much further more quickly. Also the Black Death is 3 seperate plagues, with the climate of the region and the sparse population it never got a chance to take hold before the climate neutered it.


Also though Poland and then Ukraine became later bread baskests in the following centuires it was hardly the case at the time. Ancient Egypt was a bread basket, not the case today. So was Sicily, again not the case today.


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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 17:32
I just found information that population of Poland during the reign of Casimir the Great (so during the black death in Europe) was about 2 millions of people.
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Posts: 555 		  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 17:42
Any idea of isea od location and distribution?
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 17:43
Just how do we really know just where the term Egypt, really applied itself? And in what time?

Be it known that there was a "Nile" river or stream located within ancient Napolis!
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Posts: 555 		  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 17:44
You are just being obtuse. Stop it. 
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 17:53
If I may be so bold, Make Me!

Obtuse is a method, not a solution!
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 17:59
Originally posted by DreamWeaver

Any idea of isea od location and distribution?
No, but got other info:
 
 
Population over 2,5 mln people, territory 270.000 square kilometres = 9,25 perons per 1 square kilometr. Cant be much different from other parts of Europe like for half of 14th century. An d even if it was different still doesnt explain why Russia was hit by Black Death and Poland wasnt.


Edited by Mosquito - 23-Jul-2010 at 18:06
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 18:11
Ditto to Mosquito!

Hey, I'm a poet and don't know it!

Edited by opuslola - 23-Jul-2010 at 18:13
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Posts: 555 		  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2010 at 07:44
Population density is key to be fair. Some areas will be denser than others.

Russian trade routes from the Black Sea would be my guess.
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Posts: 85 		  Quote Maximus Germanicus I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2010 at 08:11
The plague spread along trade routes to dense population areas. As I understand the plague didn't like the cold and required a large population base to replicate. ALong witha lot of refuse for rats to breed in and live in.
 
Mosquito is it possible that there wasn't a large rat population in that area, I don't know, is it possible it was a cleaner area therefore had a smaller rat population.
 
Or is it possible that the league of shadows decided not to spread the plague in that areaLOL


Edited by Maximus Germanicus I - 24-Jul-2010 at 08:11
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2010 at 08:11
Originally posted by Mosquito

Poland started to feed the rest of Europe a century later and the highest amount of grain was being sell in the 16th/17th century.


Thats what I thought, that why I was skeptical of what Opuslola was saying.

Then this only leaves one reasonable explanation. Again, I think the best theory which explains why these regions were relatively unaffected is the one I stated earlier.

What other explanation could there be?
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Posts: 85 		  Quote Maximus Germanicus I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2010 at 08:12
The league of shadowsSmile
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Posts: 1152 		  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2010 at 08:47
Originally posted by Maximus Germanicus I

The league of shadowsSmile


Interesting, please elaborate. LOL
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