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Why Did The Black Death End The Middle Age?

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  Quote jedimindtricks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why Did The Black Death End The Middle Age?
    Posted: 11-May-2009 at 13:36
Why did it just compeletely shut it down? I have been wondering this. In todays society, we would just rebuild and restart the economy. But not in the Middle Ages. They actually ended the Middle Age. Why did they do this and not just rebuild? Was it even the ending point of the Middle Age, or was already ending before the Black Death Plague?
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  Quote bod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2009 at 15:44
I don't think the Black death brought about the end of the middle ages. Whatever date you give the end of the middle ages, it is only a convenient bench mark in time. 

It is a debatable figure but in Britain it is stated by some historians that half the population died. This is not just a credit crunch! Population numbers were slow to recover and many readjustments in the social structure were needed to make society work again.

Some things carried on just the same after the Black death including the 100 year war. 


Edited by bod - 11-May-2009 at 15:46
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  Quote khshayathiya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2009 at 16:18
The concept of the "Middle Ages" was invented by the scholars of the Renaissance, to describe the period of time which passed from the "golden" Antiquity to their own "golden" age of learning and humanism.

So whatever factors contributed to the end of the Middle Ages (and the social consequences of the Black Plague might very well be one such factor), it was essentially the Renaissance that put an end to the Middle Ages.

Besides, the "demise" of this era happened gradually and slowly. While signs of transition may be identified as early as the 1300s in some parts of Europe, in others the Middle Ages are reckoned to have lasted well into the 1600s or even later.

Anyway, one should be at all times aware that the sharp divisions of human history are the work of historians and are purely arbitrary.


Edited by khshayathiya - 11-May-2009 at 16:22
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2009 at 14:41
I agree with those qualifications, but the major effect of the Black Death was an immediate shortage of manpower which accelerated the growth of labour for hire and an increase in the price of labour, factors which went a great way towards the dissolution of the feudal system with respect to agriculture.
 
But the agricultural economy is only one aspect of the Middle Ages.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2009 at 20:29
If indeed the reports of the Black Death are correct, it must be said that science, it seems, has yet to confirm such a theory! Somewhere else in this huge formum I have even posted my theory that it was not the plague carried via rats, but one carried via grain!

I really contend that what really happened was a period of warfare, some pestilence, and a loss of the rule of law or church, etc., for an extended period. It might well have been something similar to what happened in France during and after the revolution, where by all centres of power, whether religious or secular, were quickly destroyed and records burned, or buried!
It was only after a long transistion where by some return to stability occured, but it was really the work of but a few powerful people, and the soon to be power of the printed word which propelled the people into the "New Times!, you may supply the French word!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote sooty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2009 at 03:51
I thought that the modern era is calculated from approximately 1550 CE onwards.  The middle ages as with any period of time, were constantly changing.  The black death changed the feudal system. Would we say that the Magna Carta ended the middle ages? 
http://www.mythologyhellenic.com
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  Quote Arakano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2010 at 07:21
The Middle Ages were "ended" by their creation; as soon as the Renaissance scholars said "well, anything before the Renaissance were the middle ages", the middle ages came into being - as something that was past.

And frankly, the whole concept is tough to keep up if you consider that renaissance happened in various stages throughout Europe. An Italian in 1250 might have scoffed at the "barbaric" Scots of 1500, for example, I suppose...
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2010 at 15:26
What really changed things were the chronologists! For the first time, Europe had a written history! Dates of things past were settled! Everyone looked for a family tree, etc.!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Justus_Scaliger

Things old were given dates, although no one really knew just how old many things really were! Ancient documents suddenly appeared like a landslide! They turned up everywhere, as did ancient statues, incised stones, Egyptian ruins, etc.!

History was everywhere and no-where!

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 05-Mar-2010 at 15:27
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  Quote Deano97 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2010 at 06:27
Well alot of Historians agree that the black death didnt end the middle ages.Its debated what did, butmost agree that its either when the first college was created in Bologna or when Columbus "discovered" North America.
I fart in your general direction!Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of Elderberries!
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2010 at 14:23
Deano wrote;

"Well alot of Historians agree that the black death didnt end the middle ages.Its debated what did, butmost agree that its either when the first college was created in Bologna or when Columbus "discovered" North America."

Well Deano97, it seems you have hit upon one event that for sure, at least as we are told the story today, that the voyages of Colombo and the later finds of Gold, did land like a KO punch in the belly of Europe! While a lot of attention is payed concerning the Gold and Silver taken as loot from the America's back to Spain and Portugal, less is paid to the fortunes later made in the importation of tobacco and sugar, as well as cotton and fish!

Incidentally, it seems that the very year 1492 CE, was considered in some religious communities as a possible "end time" date? Thus it was considered to be a portentous time as well!

Regards,
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2010 at 14:31
The black death lead to several economic, political, and cultural changes which transformed Europe and eventually led the way out of the middle ages. Although the black death came and went for centuries afterward as well.

An economic aspect was the rise in the living standard for peasants. As many people died off, nobles were forced to raise wages and living conditions to attract peasants to come work for them.

A cultural/political aspect was that monks and monasteries took the prime role in helping the sick. This meant that monks caught the disease at high rates which lead to entire monasteries being wiped out and a huge decline in the number of clergy. This led to people being more reliant on secular methods and secular organizations, and we start seeing the collapse of the power of the Church over everyday life. Also, people became disillusioned when the Catholic Church could not stop the plague.

These are just some examples.
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  Quote Deano97 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2010 at 17:26
Well what I find hysterical is that schools still teach that they beleived the Earth was flat when Columbus left on his lil' trip...But thats a discussion for a diffrent time.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2010 at 18:51
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

The black death lead to several economic, political, and cultural changes which transformed Europe and eventually led the way out of the middle ages. Although the black death came and went for centuries afterward as well.An economic aspect was the rise in the living standard for peasants. As many people died off, nobles were forced to raise wages and living conditions to attract peasants to come work for them.A cultural/political aspect was that monks and monasteries took the prime role in helping the sick. This meant that monks caught the disease at high rates which lead to entire monasteries being wiped out and a huge decline in the number of clergy. This led to people being more reliant on secular methods and secular organizations, and we start seeing the collapse of the power of the Church over everyday life. Also, people became disillusioned when the Catholic Church could not stop the plague.These are just some examples.


Jeeze! Just how does reply to the above post by "The Great Simba?"

It will be hard, but I feel my large "post" might well be able to "overcome" the slight "veil" or "Covering" that TGS leaves open to some "penetration" via "strongly connected, and tubular penetrations, which might well lead to the combination of genetic material?

But, to make the above sexual event cognit, I would suggest that my alliteration, above fulfills the degree of response that TGS deserves!

Regards,
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 13:05
Originally posted by khshayathiya



The concept of the "Middle Ages" was invented by the scholars of the Renaissance, to describe the period of time which passed from the "golden" Antiquity to their own "golden" age of learning and humanism. So whatever factors contributed to the end of the Middle Ages (and the social consequences of the Black Plague might very well be one such factor), it was essentially the Renaissance that put an end to the Middle Ages.Besides, the "demise" of this era happened gradually and slowly. While signs of transition may be identified as early as the 1300s in some parts of Europe, in others the Middle Ages are reckoned to have lasted well into the 1600s or even later.Anyway, one should be at all times aware that the sharp divisions of human history are the work of historians and are purely arbitrary.


I think that the above is a very good answer to a number of questions!
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 02:06
I would rather say that The Black Death wasnt the reason of changes but rather a positive catalyst that give them more speed. The medieval society was changing all the time, the cities were becoming more and more important, the paesants after living for a year (and a day) in the city were getting free from their feudal lords (germ. stadtluft macht frei - not sure how to translate it into englich, maybe "city air makes man free"). Especially the rich cities of Italy and their fast development were the factor of changes. And finally the use of gunpowder that finished the age of chivlary, which begined in Bohemia during hussite wars, when the Czechs repelled paneuropean invasions of armies of knights, massacred them and even raided Germany, showing everyone that knights became obsolete.

Edited by Mosquito - 21-Jul-2010 at 02:07
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 04:51
The problem is that its all very very arbitary, the choosing of dates. Humans like to compartmentalize things, makes it easier to understand and reason with etc. The problme is that dates are very arbitary and are influenced by when and where you are.
 
476-1453 are traditonally seen as the dates defining the Middle Ages, The fall of 2 Roman Empires. But its not as though people suddenly woke up the next day and they, their society and their world was different. In Britain the Middle Ages are taken as going up to 1485. But one could argue for 1517 with Martin Luther or perhaps later. Likewise it is true for Modern and Eraly Modern, 1453-1789 and then 1789-present? It really varies upon where you are and what you choose.
 
Rather the better thing to do is to tlook at social, economic, political cycles and how they develop. How do they rise and achieve dominance onyl to be later replaced by something else. (going off on somne sort of Annalist bent there). The processes that existed in 475 are still there in 477 and likewise 1452 and 1454. The imposition of dates makes everythign appar clean and precise when it isnfact not. The Middle Ages fade away, or wane as Huzinga entiled his famous book The Wanning of the Middle Ages, and these fading processes take time. One can attribute the decline of the Middle Ages long before the dates on which tradition arbitarily determines they end.
 
So the question must be, what processes brought the Middel Ages to an end?
 
The Black Death in itself did not end the Middle Ages, but the knock on effects that arose out of the world following the Black Death did.
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  Quote warwolf1969 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 06:01
The social affects of the Black death were massive.  The death rate was somewhere between 30-50%.  Which left a massive gap.  The result was that the food produced was spread around less people.  Allowing for the first real time, people other than the rich to have chance to look around.  The black death led almost directly to the renassiance due to the massive effects of such a disaster.
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  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 06:30
The age old cycle. More food produced that the population requires to feed itself with, means less people tied to the land to produce that food. The excess permits activity not directly related to survival.

How exacly do you think the Black Death led to the Renaissance? How did it contribute?

Many would place the beginning of the Renaissance with Cimabue and Giotto, priror to the Black Death.


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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 07:40
 
 
 
 
But for some reasons the Black Death didnt come to Poland - the gray field on the map.


Edited by Mosquito - 23-Jul-2010 at 09:09
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 13:58
Yes Mosquito, a very interesting and alarming map! Just why would this major part of modern day Poland and part of Russia, I assume, not be affected to any great degree?

Could it be the lack of surviving documents? Or could these people, in this place have had some prior exposure, and therefor, a resistance to the disease?

Of course all of those outlines are relative, to the opinion of the writers, and other conventions!
But, the lack of infection in "Poland" is as unexplained as is the location of MU!
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