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AE online project : Byzantine translations

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Nickmard View Drop Down
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  Quote Nickmard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: AE online project : Byzantine translations
    Posted: 03-May-2009 at 22:47
Greetings!

I have just returned from an EPIC! trip to Turkey where I visited many Byzantine sites. I have photos from various sites and runied cities.

I was wondering if anybody would be interested in contributin to an online project to translate some inscriptions from Greek and Latin into English.

Some of the inscriptions are from gates on the Theodosian walls from Constantinople and other various items from Pergamum, Ephesus and Hierapolis. I also have inscriptions from Frescoes in various Byzantine churches.

I have only just returned so it will take me some days to sort the photos so please be patient.

Obviously anybody who can read Latin and/or Greek would be usefull.

Cheers,
Nickmard

NOTE : As some of the inscriptions are faded I am providing links to my Flickr account where you can download the full size 12mp image so you can tweak the image yourselves to get an image that is readable. AE only allows 100kb files.

ITEM ONE
: Latin ? inscription from behind the Golden Gate of Constantinople - 7 Towers fortress - Northern Tower ground level.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickmard/3500398518/ (full size image here)

ITEM TWO : Greek : Ephesus - I think this might have been the base of a statue that is no longer attached. A good quality inscription in what looks like marble. (view large to read)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickmard/3502368726/

ITEM THREE : Greek : Ephesus - Could have been above a door. Good quality inscription on marble.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickmard/3502390360/

ITEM FOUR
: The Gate of Rhegium / Theodosian Walls - Constantinople - Greek ( I didnt know that this shot had an Inscription untill after I had taken it and returned home. Please view the large size and zoom in. There are references to Constantine and Theodosis.)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickmard/3504653967/



Edited by Nickmard - 06-May-2009 at 08:46
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Vorian View Drop Down
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  Quote Vorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 00:00
If you upload them here, I might help with the inscriptions. Some are very close to modern Greek
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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 04:53
My Latin is rusty, but, hey! What better way of polishing it back?
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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 05:02
I might be able to help with the Latin inscriptions.
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 10:25
I'm very busy at the moment but i can help translating Greek inscriptions. Especially those after the 4th century are translated on the fly with minor changes to modern Greek so it wouldn't be that time consuming.


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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 10:27
Btw, even if they are not 100% clear, i will be able to trace them through certain words from the Ohio States University database. Start uploading :)


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  Quote Nickmard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 11:12
Do you guys think I should just link them to my flickr account so you can have access to the large version of the image. Its just that there is an file size upload limit on AE that means its going to be hard to read (because of the condition of the inscriptions) ???
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2009 at 11:17
Yeah, as it is now I have trouble just making out the words.
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2009 at 09:33
Originally posted by Nickmard


ITEM TWO : Greek : Ephesus - I think this might have been the base of a statue that is no longer attached. A good quality inscription in what looks like marble. (view large to read)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickmard/3502368726/




Complete translation

The first and greatest metropolis of Asia, (honoury title follows *), the city of the respected Ephesians. The parliament (boule) and the municipality (of Ephessos) honoured Lucios Claudios Charidomos Filomitoras, benefactor by ancesty and archpriest of the Asian temples of Ephessos, founder of the great Balbillions (probably somekind of games since he's mentioned as αγωνοθέτης)..

This small statue (andrianta**) was raised in the house of brother Tiberius Claudios Polydeukus Markelos.


* νεωκόρος means "keeper of the temple" but in the case of a city it is a honoury title used to address a city that has dedicated a temple to a specific god or emperor.

** ανδριατας is a non-human sized sculpure




Edited by Flipper - 05-May-2009 at 21:02


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  Quote Nickmard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2009 at 10:09
Great work!  : Being in Greek, what era do you think it belongs to ?. Could it be Byzantine or is it pre-roman Greek?

Edited by Nickmard - 05-May-2009 at 10:11
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2009 at 10:54
Originally posted by Nickmard

Great work!  : Being in Greek, what era do you think it belongs to ?. Could it be Byzantine or is it pre-roman Greek?


I would guess 2nd century AD or later. It is in pretty straighforward Greek, except from some terms. Note that I have some lines more to translate.


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  Quote Nickmard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2009 at 11:08

Any idea what empire/dynasty would have been in control at this time?. From research I have done the city would have been under the control of the romans in the 2nd centry AD.

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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2009 at 11:21
That is correct.
We talk about Roman period, not a Byzantine. The first Byzantine dynasty would be the Constantinian, one century later.


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  Quote Nickmard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2009 at 11:28
Would I be correct in thinking that the Romans of this period and even the Constantinian dynasty would not have been using Greek yet?
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2009 at 12:13
Originally posted by Nickmard

Would I be correct in thinking that the Romans of this period and even the Constantinian dynasty would not have been using Greek yet?


Since the Greek, Anatolian and Phrygian populations used Greek as a common language for many centuries before and were not latin speaking, a honourable inscription about someone that has to be remembered had to be in Greek. Otherwise, only Romans that were a minority would understand it.

The same example is later seen in Bulgaria. Even though the rulers were not slavic speaking a huge majority of the population would not understand if the inscriptions were in the altaic language of the aristocracy. It ended up that the ruling class was slavized.


Edited by Flipper - 05-May-2009 at 12:17


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  Quote Nickmard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2009 at 12:23
Thanks for the great info Flipper, keep the translations flowing!
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  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2009 at 23:01
The level of literacy in the ancient world is a very iffy subject (not to say ALL could read Herodotus and Homer, but what about road signs and small inscriptions)... we cannot really make any assumptions on it. In this case, these inscriptions are from urban patrons and so we can maybe expect both a higher level of literacy and probably a universal knowledge of Greek... its not very likely that there were many exclusively Phrygian speakers here... if any. When we speak of local population and limitation of "Romanization" or "Hellenization" thats more of a rural phenomenon.

The Latin name of what is most likely a Greek (or Hellenized) Roman citizen definitely points to perhaps the second century AD. Tiberius Claudios is in there, so its clearly the Julio-Claudian dynasty, or perhaps shortly afterward at most.


Edited by Theodore Felix - 05-May-2009 at 23:04
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2009 at 23:28
I went to Iznik, Turkiye or ancient Nicaea to see the still standing Byzantine walls. By one of the gates I could see a carved image or relief of a what appeared to be a Geek/Roman mythological scene. It was severely eroded so it was hard to tell what its meaning was but I have a picture of it. Because of roots I was drawn to Byzantine ruins and the still standing structures; especially while I was in Turkiye and Greece.

Edited by eaglecap - 05-May-2009 at 23:29
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2009 at 08:32
Originally posted by Theodore Felix

  its not very likely that there were many exclusively Phrygian speakers here... if any. When we speak of local population and limitation of "Romanization" or "Hellenization" thats more of a rural phenomenon.


In Ephesus it was probably none and the Anatolians at that point seem to have abandoned their native tongue. However, towards central anatolia, Phrygian was pretty much alive until the 6th century AD. At least as it has been attested.


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  Quote Chilbudios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2009 at 12:13
Here is a good reference for titles which you may have difficulty in translating/understanding:
 
 
Flipper, check p. LXXXI for more information on νεωκορος. On your translation, I think the names should be rendered in their Latinized form as Lucius Claudius Charidemus Philometor and Tiberius Claudius Polydeuces Marcellus. The celebration's name I guess it should be Balbilleia (named after Tiberius Claudius Balbillus, a 1st century AD Egyptian priest and scholar).
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