Us Victory in Vietnam?

Originally posted by Temujin now hold on sec. before American involvement, there was only North Vietnam that was Communist. as a direct result of the war, Laos, Cambodia and South Vietnam became Communist. isn't that failure on the highest level? i mean how was Communism in SE Asia contained other than by natural borders?

I think it is hard to say whether that is because of direct US involvement? With or without US involvement, Cambodia or Laos were always going to be subject to Chinese or Vietnamese influence, whether indirectly or directly. Though, i would be careful to get too far into that, seeing that there are a lot of people still trying to point out what you already have, as the "Domino Effect" The Johnson administration was worried about? As policy, it was a failure.

Besides, in order to have used containment as a policy, the only way that was going to work was if the North Vietnamese respected the borders of it's neighbors, which it sadly never really did! That was another major factor that hampered US efforts in Vietnam, playing by the rules when no one else did!

Graham,

Originally posted by pikeshot1600 Graham,   Disillusionment with Obama would likely be little different than with any US president once he is presented with the hard realities of US vital interests.

Originally posted by Temujin now hold on sec. before American involvement, there was only North Vietnam that was Communist. as a direct result of the war, Laos, Cambodia and South Vietnam became Communist. isn't that failure on the highest level? i mean how was Communism in SE Asia contained other than by natural borders?

Originally posted by truth of the matter I agree with pikeshot1600. I have the same doubts about Obama and his capability to handle foreign affairs and foreign diplomacy. I can't figure out like you said his complete opposite stance towards America's staunch enemies. Quite the reversal of the Bush Administration. His book and handshake ordeal with Chavez, his meeting with socialist leaders like Morales. Him and Hilary Clinton seem too ambitious to start an alliance or a facade frienship with Iran.

I won't push the point about the mullahs, because I admit I was speaking loosely. I should have said that many strict religious figures supported the overthrow of Mosaddeq. After all, though Mosaddeq's National Front party wasn't Communist his policies did have the strong support of the Tudeh party, which in effect was. Not being an Arab, he also wasn't Ba'athist of course, but his political position wasn't too different from theirs.

Edited by gcle2003 - 09-May-2009 at 19:39

Thanks for the replys! First to answer gcle2003, I personally don't see Chavez as an enemy, I was referring to the mainstream view of him and Venezuela, how Obama was pertrayed, mainly by the GOP, as meeting with someone who has been on the CIA'S list. Chavez himself claims assissnation attempts on him, led by the CIA and the U.S Gov't. So to say the least most in the U.S Gov't see him as someone to keep an eye on. I don't think he has a grudge towards the U.S, seeing his perhapsness of a new future with U.S. Second, I don't mind some of Socialism's better qualities, but I'm talking about the U.S., who is more of a capitalist country, who finds Socialism a threat, mainly because they may nationalize resources that are key to Super Power Countries.

As far as Israel, it is the only allie in the middle east except maybe Pakistan and that's only after Bhutto was assissinated. My point was, you know the U.S. and the Brittish are working hand in hand with Israel. It has been shown time after time the three working in a trifecta. I know Mossadeq was ousted by the CIA, and the Brittish partly because Mossadeq wanted to nationalize Iran's oil and make more money for the country. Brittain had huge stakes in their oil. The U.S. CIA and the Brittish were not about to loose out in oil. So they overthrew Mahmoud Mossadeq, and instilled the pro-western Shah. And yes Ahmadinejad is a staunch enemey of Israel and it's allies. The U.S. needs a puppet like Israel, especially in the middle east war theatre.

As for Obama I say he's got what you may call a " Main street swagger and a Wall street hustle." Meaning he looks like,acts like, and has the confidence to help the American people, but his job is working for wall street and the big whigs.

Originally posted by truth of the matter Yes and that's why I said, what is Democracy if someone like Mossadeq can be elected fairly by the people, in a democratic fashion, and is then ousted because he goes against the U.S or Britains plans. Puppet Democracy is more like it.