Turkification of Asia minor

Anatolian peasants were fed up with imperial taxation and simultaneous lack of protection. Ottomans took everyone in as long as he turned Muslim. After that it's easy to Turkify since in the end Byzantine identity for the commoners was a religious one

Vorian Anatolian peasants were fed up with imperial taxation and simultaneous lack of protection. Ottomans took everyone in as long as he turned Muslim. After that it's easy to Turkify since in the end Byzantine identity for the commoners was a religious one

There are many problems with your theory.

There was no widespread Turkification or forced Islamification projects during the Ottoman reign. The peasants were mostly uneducated folk so there was no way for them to learn to read and speak Turkish as most didn't go to school and learn. In addition to this untill the collapse of the Ottoman Empire there in Anatolia for example there was a large Greek population, they should have been Turkified and become muslim according to your theory.

The Turkification of Anatolia did not begin with the Ottomans.
Anatolia was known as "Turchia" (Land of the Turks) which is where the word Turkiye comes from by the 1300's.
The expansion of the unruly Oghuz tribes who the Seljuks placed on the Byzantine-Seljuk border mainly because they they were causing so much trouble and hard to control that the state decided its better they harrass the Byzantines than us.
These Oghuz tribes penetrated Anatolian Byzantine lands and thrived there as the steppe was similar to what they were used to in Central Asia and suitible for their horses.

After the Seljuks defeated the Byzantines at Malizgirt more and more tribes and armies flooded the Anatolian plateau.

After the Seljuks were defeated by the Mongols another social change occured. This time tribes fleeing the Mongols migrated into Anatolia and founded more Beyliks and Atabeyliks.

During this period, due to a mixture of migration, regional domination, the spiritual sufi nature of these early Turks whose mystical dervishes were winning over the masses with their liberal tolerant views, infact so liberal they were somtimes called heretics.

There were a combination of reasons but alot of Anatolia had either become majority Turk or had a Turkish presence before the Ottoman Empire was founded.

Infact Ottomans were a product of these social changes in Anatolia. They were one of many beyliks founded by Oghuz Turk tribes which had migrated there over the past few centuries. They were a frontier state and originally were not exactly Orthodox Sunni in their doctrine, there were heavy Sufi and mystic elements in their early years.

Originally posted by Bulldog There are many problems with your theory.

I don't get your point. My theory is that Anatolian peasants were Turkified by the Seljucs and the Ottomans. You say you disagree but carry on mentioning Turkish tribes etc.

Is your point that Turks completely erased the previous inhabitants thus there was no "turkification"?

Vorian I don't get your point. My theory is that Anatolian peasants were Turkified by the Seljucs and the Ottomans. You say you disagree but carry on mentioning Turkish tribes etc. Is your point that Turks completely erased the previous inhabitants thus there was no "turkification"?

Maybe you misunderstood me.

Anatolian peasants were mostly Greek speaking communities, there were also Armenians, Assyrians and Georgians. These people didn't get erased or vanish, Greeks carried on being Greeks.
Communities which converted religion sometimes also changed identity because they were excluded from their original societies. There are examples of Turkish speaking Greek Orthodox Christians and Greek speaking muslims.

Turkish tribes did have a considerable population and bought with them their language, religion, culture and founded states and empires. However, they were not a majority, only in certain areas they became a majority over time. The areas which they dominated and during the Beylik eras when the church central control was weakened many locals mixed with them untill there were no differences left and by difference I mean linguistic/religous/cultural.

My point is the Turkification of Anatolia is not a black and white issue, there were many factors involved. Its just as wrong to say it was because peasents went through a mass dementia totally forgetting their identity then woke up as Turks, just as its wrong to say the Oghuz tribes came and saw an empty land which they solely populated and drove out any Byzantine remnants in their path.

A combination of migration, mixing, religous conversions, influence of the dominant powers of the land in addition to other factors are the reasons of how there was Turkification in Asia Minor.

Originally posted by Afsar Beghi Originally posted by pebbles   Originally posted by Afsar Beghi   I've read many genetic researches about the genetics of Asia minor and what amazes me is that almost all of them come to the conclusion that the population of Asia minor was Turkificated by the Ottomans. The migrating Turks are seen as a minority in contrast to the "original" population of Anatolia.       Exactly ...   There is a popular dilusion of being direct offspring of the " Huns " among Turkish nationals   .   The truth of the matter is,majority descended from variety of indigenous origins.     The truth of the matter is that it is a great mystery considering you have no genetic material to compare it with.

The turkification of anatolia was a conclusion of massive turkish migration. Without the turcomans it was impossible. Let us think the greek islands, this islands were also in turkish hands for hundreds of years but their character remained unchanged because there was not a turcoman migration to the islands. Ofcourse the local population converted with many reasons but a massive conversion did not occur. Secondly the seljuks and ottomans were not a nation state so they did not pursue it. Through the 13th century the anatolian population was consisted mainly by the local christians but the mongol invasion pushed a lot of turcoman to anatolian peninsula(Germiyan, Karesi, Karaman, Hamid, Çandar, Saruhan, Aydın.....). After this migration the process get faster

Jamaicans are black people today who speak an Indo-European language (English).  Their ancestors consisted of many different tribes from Africa speaking different languages.  They were forced to learn a new language without mixing with the rulers who gave them that language.