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It's starting to look like Mexico is falling apart

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hugoestr View Drop Down
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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: It's starting to look like Mexico is falling apart
    Posted: 19-Mar-2009 at 03:56
Originally posted by Maharbbal

I agree for the legalization of drugs, nonetheless, it should be pointed out that

1. Unlike tobacco and to some extent alcohol and weed, many drugs do not allow you to be socially and professionally functional.

2. Drugs are particularly plastic; in other words, you can't allow every and any drug, of course a (much more limited) for the drugs that will still be banned. But the fact is that if weed, cocaine and x alone were legal, drug trade would be considerably less important already.

3. Drugs by definition create a legal problems: by definition someone on drug is not responsible. I'm not talking weed here, but can you for instance prosecute for murder a guy who at the time though he was a walking and dancing bannana or something?

4. Some drugs to fuel crime by essence. It is particularly the case of those with a mix of high price, high addiction and low functionality left to the user. Basically, how else than by stealing will one fund his habit?

But even bearing that in mind, I think making (some) drugs legal, even heroin, is a good thing. Indeed, however terrible some one the consequences of legalization may be, the consequences of prohibition are worse every time. If anything in budgetary terms. If anything, I don't see how legalization could turn entire regions into warzones!



It all depends on the drug and on the kind of addiction a person has. I actually know a person who was a heroin addict for years, and held a job during that whole time. The same applies to other kinds of drugs. Yet some people with addictive self destructive behavior will destroy their lives by becoming addicted to video games, collecting garbage, or even going to church.

Also, to be able to legalize different substances we will have to create an infrastructure to deal with addicts. Right now that structure are prisons.
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2009 at 21:57
Originally posted by hugoestr

You missed the point of what I said: gun control does prevent deaths.
 
I would love to show you why this statement is wrong, but lets do it in the appropriate thread.
Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2009 at 00:59
You have alternative numbers on deaths by guns from Mexico for the 20th century?
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  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2009 at 08:49
Actually, the other day I was talking to a Mexican guy about this very issue.
He said that Mexico 30 or 40 years ago was not at all the dangerous place that it is today.

He summarised the problem to the following:
- a very high birth rate (although decreasing now), which gave rise to a fast population growth, much faster than the economy could provide new jobs.
- the one-party-state of the PRI that dominated the country for 70 years. As with any political party, when it stays in power for a long time, it gets corrupted. If PRI had been in power for 70 years, its corruption must have been exaggerated!
- even with the oil boom of the previous decades, the government and businessmen did little to invest the surplus capital in improving the nation's infrastructure, education level, and basic living standards. This lack of public investment, combined with the fast-growing population (especially in the lower classes), gave rise to a large underclass and a growing disparity between rich and poor.

Last and most important of all: the main problem is "DRUG TRAFFICKING".
Since the 90s, the clan wars over the control of the drug market has generated a large number of unsolved murder cases, and the police did not have enough resources to investigate all these murders and illegal activities.
As a consequence, most petty crimes went unpunished because the police has little time or power to deal with them. By knowing that anyone could get away with commiting any crime; the petty criminals broke loose on the streets: commiting robberies, kidnappings, thefts et.

For example, many of the "sexual perverts" who rape, torture, and kill prostitutes the Ciudad Juarez are foreigners who settled there just because they know they can get away with it.

THE RISE IN ORGANIZED CRIME ACTIVITY GENERATED AN INCREASE IN DISORGANIZED CRIME.

My Mexican friend said that the only ones to blame for the problems in his country are the Mexicans themselves. They are a country of rich natural resources, an exotic cultural heritage giving them huge potential for developing a booming tourist industry like in Spain, and a hard-working populace...
If the government and businessmen had invested wisely the money they earned through the oil boom to forment the growth of a middle class, things could have turned out very differently.



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  Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2009 at 09:00
Originally posted by calvo

 


My Mexican friend said that the only ones to blame for the problems in his country are the Mexicans themselves.They are a country of rich natural resources, an exotic cultural heritage giving them huge potential for developing a booming tourist industry like in Spain, and a hard-working populace...
If the government and businessmen had invested wisely the money they earned through the oil boom to forment the growth of a middle class, things could have turned out very differently.



 
 
Exactly !
 
Mexico needs more citizens like him.
 
Stop blaming " gringo conspiracy " purposely keep down Mexico.I heard it directly from a indigenous looking Mexican-American colleague.
 
 
 
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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2009 at 03:54
Hey, let's hear it directly from another Mexican too!

The state-party regime was a compromise to pacify Mexico after the Revolution of 1910. Using today's language, every stakeholder in the country had a place and a say in the system. This didn't happen when all of the generals got together one day and decided that this was a good idea. Instead, it played out for two decades, and in some cases, even beyond that.

One could say many things about Mexico, but its leadership during the 50s and 60s did invest in infrastructure and education, turning a nation where the vast majority were illiterate after the revolution and creating a public education system from kindergarden to university (now, the quality is another issue, but considering the beginnings, this was an impressive change.)

The Mexican government was even successful in cutting down the birth rate. Unfortunately, the population was already so high by the time that the birth rate was reduced (in the 80s), that you still had a wave of young people coming to age with no prospects for jobs.

The drug trafficking problems were well under way in the 80s, probably starting back in the 70s when the drug use in the U.S. began to rise. By the 80s, there were already turf wars.

But the real problem with Mexico has been an ongoing declining economy since 1982. There hasn't been any real recovery for the mass of the population. This was the result of economic crisis that got tied together with massive concentration of wealth. That, more than anything, has been the cause of social breakdown in Mexico.

Mexico does create a massive amount of wealth. The problem is that it is not distributed justly. And the social problems are a result of that. And there is no easy solution on how to redistribute it, and those with it don't want to share it.

After all, the elites get the mobs that they deserve.
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2009 at 20:55
Originally posted by hugoestr

You have alternative numbers on deaths by guns from Mexico for the 20th century?
 
Nope, there are many statistics and studies done on the U.S. in terms of gun control and its effect on crime. There are also statistics of other countries where a significant part of the population owns guns, compared to countries where guns are virtually banned, and all of these show the same general trend.
 
You were the one talking about Mexico as an example of how gun control correlates with a lower crime rate, so you're the one who needs these statistics on Mexico, not me.
Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance

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