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the word stan
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Rava View Drop Down
Pretorian
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Posts: 166 		  Quote Rava Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: the word stan
    Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 17:41

Ordynek- is old polish military term meaning formation before a battle. However it could be traced back to german ordnung as well. Another polish word "horda" has same meaning as english hordes.

By the way I know couple of people whose bear Tatars surnames mostly polonized like: Aka/cki, Braule, Abram/owicz, Nazar/ewicz. All of them have slight eastern look.
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Posts: 1460 		  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 01:06
-stan is used by Armenians as well but i believe the roots of the suffix is Persian, but im not sure because many languages use it. The word Armenia in Armenian is Hayastan (Hay, pronounced Hai, meaning Armenian), and we call Iran Barskastan (Barsik (probably derived from Parsi) meaning Persian).
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Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։
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Posts: 103 		  Quote Umbrella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 10:59
I've seen many theories about -stn in here by "volunteer" "linguists", the fact it that it's an Iranic word that is formed from old Iranic verb st- "stay-/stand-" with the the suffix -n-. In it's most archaic meaning it ment "stay-place" > "camp", also in ancient toponyms it's only used in placed that are dwelled by Iranic ppl, Armenian has many loanwords from middle western Iranian languages, above all Parthian.

Edited by Umbrella
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Posts: 205 		  Quote Dari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 10:29
This proves the indirect evidence of influence by Ino-Iranic langauges with other Indo-European branch langauges.


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Posts: 410 		  Quote Jazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 01:25
I always assumed "-stan" to be in Indic origin, but then northern India has been invaded so many times it is possible that it came to India from somewhere else....

India = Hindustan
Pakistan etc etc.

The Indian name for Europeans for a long time was Farangi (derived from the term "Franks" as this is that the Byzantines called Western Europeans and this filtered through Arabic and somewhere got corrupted into Ferungi.)

Indians used to refer to Europe then as "Farangistan".
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Posts: 6003 		  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 01:33
IIRC, the Arabic was Franji, so it makes sense.

Hehe, Ferengi, rule of aquisition number one........
Arrrgh!!"
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 05:13

Farang and Faragnstan are obviously Persian words, I think these words were mostly used after the Crusades, for example the great Persian poet Nizami (1141 - 1209) says:

Farang-e Palestine o Rahban-e Rum
Paziray-e farman-e mehrash cho mum

or Rumi (1207 - 1273) says to Shams of Tabriz:

Dar Ayeneh aks-e Qeysar-e Rum
Gar nist bedanak zang darad

Dar Quds-e delat cho khuk didi
Mulk-e qudast ast Farang darad

If you look at the mirror but you don't see Caesar of Rome, you should know that the mirror has rust.

If you see some pigs (unclean animals/things) in your holy (Quds/Jerusalem) heart, that is still Quds but there are some Farangis!
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Posts: 521 		  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 11:50

I always knew in Turkish -istan means "land of" but I didn't know where it came from.  A Persian friend of mine says -stan came from Farsi meaning "land of".
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Posts: 6003 		  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 21:59
It implies land of, but literaly means 'place' or perhaps 'place of' IIRC. But it is persian.
Arrrgh!!"
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Posts: 921 		  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 22:40
Great! Those were some great explanations on etymology. I loved them!!
Thank you all
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Posts: 410 		  Quote Jazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2005 at 01:47
Originally posted by Cywr

....Hehe, Ferengi, rule of aquisition number one........
Haha - I knew that one was coming...

Originally posted by ramin

Great! Those were some great explanations on etymology. I loved them!!
Thank you all
True, the origins of words are interesting....
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Posts: 238 		  Quote Capt. Lubber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2005 at 09:01
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Anyway Poland was the land of Sarmatians in a period!


Gard (Avestan Varet) =turn, revolve(Velgard=Vagrant, Doregard=Pedlar)


Gard (Pahlavi Garta) = Dust, Powder


Gerd (Pahlavi Girt) = Cirlce


But the suffix "-gerd" (Parthian Kart, Old Persian Krata, Arabicized Jerd) which forms place names, means "built" or"constructed". For example the famous city of Borujerd in Loristan province was a Parthian city which was built by Orodes, in Parthian sources it has been mentioned as "Orud-kart" (built by Orodes) and in Sassanid sources as "Vorugerd".


There are many cities in Iran with this suffix such as Susangerd in Khuzestan, Darabgerd in Fars, Dastgerd in Isfahan, ...



That's interesting, because gard means farm in modern norwegian, but in old norse it could mean city as well. Miklagard was the norse name for constantinople for example, and russia was called gardarike, and Novgorod was called Holmgard
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ramin View Drop Down
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Posts: 921 		  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2005 at 10:54
I love etymology!!
In fact I sort of came up with the "burgh" solution long time ago, but I couldn't find anything in books. now it all make sense. amertat, what was ur source?
"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2005 at 11:07
Originally posted by ramin

I love etymology!!
In fact I sort of came up with the "burgh" solution long time ago, but I couldn't find anything in books. now it all make sense. amertat, what was ur source?


Don't know his sources, but he is indeed correct.  Borg is an old IE word meaning fort (and interestingly the pronounciation has turned into "borj" in modern Swedish too, even if it's spelled borg).
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Baron
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Posts: 472 		  Quote tzar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2005 at 06:21
In Bulgarian word "stan" means camp!
Everybody listen only this which understands.
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Earl
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Posts: 281 		  Quote jayeshks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2005 at 16:23
bah, I already posted this in another thread but 'stan' with a soft t is a root in Sanskrit as well meaning 'place'. 

eg. janmsthan = birth+place
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