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Crowns in different cultures

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  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Crowns in different cultures
    Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 22:47

I noticed that Europeans (and Africans) have crowns for their monarchs, some passed from one generation to another, many on displays now.

However, many Asian monarchies did not have such traditions, nor did the crown seem to be as important, if it existed. Rather, they emphasised on dress codes - for example, only golden yellow or dragon motif could be used in attires by royalty.

There was a Korean gold crown, but it appeared symbolic headpiece rather than a grand statement. The Chinese also had small headpieces, but it seemed really more ornamental and other aristocrats also could wear them.

Does anyone know what led to the very dissimilar attitudes in this aspect of the different cultures?

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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 23:27
What do you mean by grand statment?


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  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 02:20

Originally posted by Gubukjanggoon

What do you mean by grand statment?


I mean comparing the European crowns and Korean crowns, the a number of former were more ... how should I put it ... ostentatious?



Edited by snowybeagle
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 08:50
Crowns were usualy symbolic, and only worn on special occasions, they were very impractical to wear. Smaller more practical ones were often used and worn more often.

Also, i'm sure that Crowns and their equivilent featured quite heavily in Western and Southern Asia, as well as the Americas, they are afterall, glorified headpieces
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 20:47
Originally posted by snowybeagle

Originally posted by Gubukjanggoon

What do you mean by grand statment?


I mean comparing the European crowns and Korean crowns, the a number of former were more ... how should I put it ... ostentatious?



Showy?

Korean crowns weren't showy?  I'm still not getting what you're saying..hmm

Korean Crown


Or are you talking about the more Chinese style caps?



Edited by Gubukjanggoon
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  Quote TheOrcRemix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 22:45
Woah, thats a sweet headpiece
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  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 03:44

Originally posted by Gubukjanggoon

[QUOTE=snowybeagle]Showy?

Korean crowns weren't showy?  I'm still not getting what you're saying..hmm

Or are you talking about the more Chinese style caps?

Is that the most showy korean crown?

Compare that to some of the crowns boasting of the largest diamond, rubies etc ...

Look at the Imperial Crown of British India, number of times used, once. Weighs 34.05 ounces and is set with emeralds, rubies, sapphires and 6,100 diamonds.

British Crown of Colony of India

 Crown of St. Stephen, Hungary

Above : Hungary's St. Stephen Crown

Even the pope got one ...

Above: Papal Tiara



Edited by snowybeagle
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 04:58

Persian Crown:

The 300 years old throne in the background is studded with an array of some 26,733 precious gems - mostly rubies, emeralds and diamonds.

Do you know what it is:



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 18:57
I guess I must be biased..

Snowy..I think it's a matter of opinion here.
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 19:12
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Persian Crown:

The 300 years old throne in the background is studded with an array of some 26,733 precious gems - mostly rubies, emeralds and diamonds.

Do you know what it is:

where are these now?

still in Iran?

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 20:24
The formal ceremonial dress of the Chinese emperors are called Mian Fu (冕服 in Chinese. Before Tang dynasty, they were woren by the emperors in everyday life. However by Tang dynasty, these cloth were only woren by the emperors at important ceremonies. That is why you see these later emperors wearing different casual cloth in their portraits.

Not only dragons but many other symbols are also sewn on the ceremonial cloth each has a special meanings.
Sun,Moon and Star - radiance of light
Mountain - steadiness
Dragon - change
Hua Chong ( a mythic bird) - literacy
Jing Yi ( ceremonial vessel depicting a tiger and a monkey) - loyalty
Algae - cleanness
Fire - light
Rice - Nourishment
Axe - Resolution
Fu (a special symbol depicting two mythic monsters back to back) - clarity


In ancient China, every men had to wear some sort of crown or hat. They were called Guan (冠 in Chinese. Whenever a man reached the age of adulthood, special ceremony called GuanLi (冠礼 would be performed where the man will formaly enter his adulthood by start wearing a Guan for the rest of his life. The Guan was also an important symbol of a man's social statue in an China. There the emperor got to wear the highest class of Guan called Mian Guan (冕冠.  To distinguish the Mian Guan of a king and a emperor, different number of the string of marbles were used. The emperor's Mian Guan has 12 strings of marble while the king's only has 10.

There are hundreds more rules regarding each small portion of the Mian Fu which I will not get into detail now.

Here is a portrait of Shu-Han emperor Liu Bei wearing Mian Fu and a picture of Song Taizong, Zhao Guangyi wearing casual cloth.




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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 02:57
where are these now?

still in Iran?

Yes, I hope!

Meanwhile my last pic is one of imperial food covers.

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  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 11:45

Originally posted by Gubook Janggoon

I guess I must be biased..

Snowy..I think it's a matter of opinion here.

I don't get what you mean.

Do you mean you still think the Korean crown is more ... grand/ostentatious/showy?

Perhaps if I get a chance to see it in real life ... photography could fail to capture certain ... details.

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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 14:31
Originally posted by snowybeagle

Originally posted by Gubook Janggoon

I guess I must be biased..

Snowy..I think it's a matter of opinion here.

I don't get what you mean.

Do you mean you still think the Korean crown is more ... grand/ostentatious/showy?

Perhaps if I get a chance to see it in real life ... photography could fail to capture certain ... details.



Yes, I've actually seen it.  There's a lot of intricate gold work and it's covered in Jade.
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  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2005 at 01:15

Originally posted by Gubook Janggoon

[QUOTE=snowybeagle]Yes, I've actually seen it.  There's a lot of intricate gold work and it's covered in Jade.

That's how it looked to me - an elegant fine artistic product without any hint of being pretentious.

Rather reminds me of something of (high) elven design in certain Advanced Dungeons & Dragons genres - its beauty lies not in the quantity of gold used but in the delicate fine details crafted skilfully.

PS : You do realise the descriptions of grand/ostentatious/showy is not really complimentary?

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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2005 at 01:26
Originally posted by snowybeagle

Originally posted by Gubook Janggoon

[QUOTE=snowybeagle]Yes, I've actually seen it.  There's a lot of intricate gold work and it's covered in Jade.

That's how it looked to me - an elegant fine artistic product without any hint of being pretentious.

Rather reminds me of something of (high) elven design in certain Advanced Dungeons & Dragons genres - its beauty lies not in the quantity of gold used but in the delicate fine details crafted skilfully.

PS : You do realise the descriptions of grand/ostentatious/showy is not really complimentary?



No..I havn't been really comprehending anything you've said up till now..

You tang ren speak in such riddles...that carrier pigeon thing threw me way off.
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  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2005 at 11:17

Originally posted by Gubook Janggoon

[QUOTE=snowybeagle]No..I havn't been really comprehending anything you've said up till now..

You tang ren speak in such riddles...that carrier pigeon thing threw me way off.

Ooops, sorry about that.

But you're right, it's all a matter of personal preference.

For me, I prefer elegance and artistic over something ostentatious/loud (artistic is subjective, of course).

Sorry about the carrier pigeon too, it used to be something you can always count on to appear in stereotypical Chinese wuxia genre - like thriller movies requiring the hero has to choose the right wire to cut to defuse a bomb going off in 3 ... 2 ... 1 seconds. (see http://newton.hep.upenn.edu/~usynin/fun/mov1.html for other things you always find in movies).

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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2005 at 21:10
I have seen the Crown jewells of England twice. Since we have never had any royalty we have none.
But, at the Mary Hill Museum there is the coronation crown from Romania.

# Queen Marie of Romania royal regalia

    Queen Marie of Romania royal regalia including coronation gown, crown, silverware, gilt furniture, jewelry and memorabilia. Numerous Russian Orthodox Icons including many with elaborate metal and enamel riza insets with semi-precious stones.

    A collection of Faberge artifacts including an impeccable, classical flower study, Lily of the Valley of nephrite jade, rock crystal and gold is on display in the Queen Marie Gallery.

http://www.maryhillmuseum.org/collect.htm

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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Mar-2005 at 23:17
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Persian Crown:

The 300 years old throne in the background is studded with an array of some 26,733 precious gems - mostly rubies, emeralds and diamonds.




Looks like the idea came from Sassanid crowns


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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 04:58

 

Here is the crown of the Holy Roman Empire:

And the Longobard Crown:

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