Amerindian Heritage of United States and Canada

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy Originally posted by pinguin Well, perhaps we are talking just semantic and misundertanding. I bet somewhere in the U.S., the descendents of the fur trade hunters and theirs native wives (perhaps a bit diluted by now), still wear those native jackets, racoon hats, snow rackets, track steps of animals on the ground and ride canoes down the rivers, the same way Amerindians did a thousand years ago. That's the heritage we are talking about, I believe. I think Americans who do outdoor activities like these do think back to those times. They have a higher respect for those that didn't have, but inspired the advanced tools of today. You will usually hear these atheletes say, they don't know how those of the past were able to do what they did without the more advanced take on the past tools. So there is definitly respect there.     Just to go alittle on what you said before about the land, and being apart of it. I know my heritage is European, but I do see myself as American, and I'm proud of that. I don't think those before my ancestors arrived as inferior, and I don't think of those on the American Continents are inferior to those Americans in the US. Despite our past, I think we are moving into a age with more cooperation between all the countries in the Americas.

Yes, I agree and being an outdoors person I think gives me more respect for the native cultures. I once went to Bandelier National Park in New Mexico to backpack and I came across a circle of rocks which was a sacred area for Native Americans to worship. I had been told about this before and the Native American who told me about it said the usual questions from white people was, is that like a cathedral to you? He sounded irritated that someone would ask such a question but I just listened to him. Later, when I found the stone circle I realized it was more like the Holy of Holies was the the ancient Hebrews and the surrounding nature was the cathedral - maybe I am wrong. Look up Bandelier

Here is a National Park link and yes it is an archaeological area
http://www.nps.gov/band

While reading Cutlure and contact by Charles Di Peso I came across some of his theories. He lists several civilizations prior to the Aztec such as the Toltec and some others. (too lazy to open the book)
He had a theory about the Meso American cultures sending in traders called pochteca who doubled as spies for land to conquer. He believes that the ruins at Casa Grandes were built under the dominance of these Meso American traders and not by the local natives. Although, the book brings up other scholars who have a different opinion. After the Aztecs Empire arose the areas northern Mexico, in what he called Gran Chichimeca, were cut off and Casa Grande was destroyed by a rebelion by the local tribes; who had been dominated by these Meso American cultures.

a section from Di Peso and his theory or a bit-(had to open the book now)

"Disguised merchants spied out the Gran Chichimeca and laid the groundwork for later intrusion by their brethern who founded a port of trade at Casa Grandes. Upheaval cut this port of trade off from its core, and the native populaton rose in revolt and laid waste to it.

De Peso, Charles. 33Cutlure and contact. Amerind Foundation pub. Dragoon, Arizona, 1993-page 33

Edited by eaglecap - 29-Jan-2009 at 20:40

Very good point!!. Outdoors people usually know and identify with Amerindians a lot more that people of the cities.

Originally posted by edgewaters Originally posted by eaglecap While reading Cutlure and contact by Charles Di Peso I came across some of his theories. He lists several civilizations prior to the Aztec such as the Toltec and some others. (too lazy to open the book) He had a theory about the Meso American cultures sending in traders called pochteca who doubled as spies for land to conquer. Di Peso was hardly the first to note this particular aspect of the pochtecatl ... Prescott describes this aspect in The Conquest of Mexico - published in 1847. The academic view of the pochtecatl hasn't changed a whole lot since then.

Thanks edgewater I will check out this source as well. I am still learning since my grad studies were ancient Greece and Pre-Greek civilization.

Originally posted by Bulldog Pinguiun That has an explanation. Most natives americans of the past were nomadic or farm people, and most cities were founded by Europeans. This is the case for North America but less for Central and South America, perhaps another reason why America has a more European based culture and Latin America a more Amerindian influenced one. There were many great civilisations and cities built by Aztecs, Mayans, Incans some even more advanced than Europeans of the same era.

I think your are righ on the most part but the people we call the mound builders had large urban centers but sadly that group dispeared probably due to enviromental conditions. By disapeared I mean they most likely migrated to other regions. I have read, somewhere, that some expert believe the Mound builders were connected to the Mayan civilization after its decline.

Originally posted by Bulldog ...This is the case for North America but less for Central and South America, perhaps another reason why America has a more European based culture and Latin America a more Amerindian influenced one. There were many great civilisations and cities built by Aztecs, Mayans, Incans some even more advanced than Europeans of the same era.

But you always talk that the Americans see themselves as part of Europe, or an European culture. Perhaps the best of all European countries, but in Europe, anyways. I don't get it now.

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy The US sees itself as it's own culture. I've been trying to show this through out the thread. I never heard a American compare themselves with another people, they always talk about how great our country is. They'll often say they are proud of their heritage, but their Patriotism for the US always seems stronger. Especially now with Obama in office, more people identify themselves with being American first instead of African or European, etc...

Funny, that is true in my own life. I use to call myself a Greek American since that is my largest ethnic side but now I just say I am an American and proud of it. When I see a Mexican, Black or any other group I see them just as fellow Americans, although I am not color blind. They are Americans first and foremost and this type of outlook will only help to reunite us more as one people.

But you always talk that the Americans see themselves as part of Europe, or an European culture. Perhaps the best of all European countries, but in Europe, anyways. I don't get it now.   And of course, things are changing with Obama. But he doesn't identify with Amerindians either, so, I wonder if that change will affect the image of America as a product of immigrants only.

I've been saying our culture is European based, I don't believe I said Americans consider themselves European though. I thought I made it clear that Americans saw their culture as their own throughout the thread. Key word though, thought. I'm not do good at expressing my thoughts I guess.

Edited by pinguin - 31-Jan-2009 at 03:31

Yes, I know many Americans, particularly the ones that looks the Old World for identity, don't want to remember Indians as you say, nor they appreciate theirs contribution to American culture. At least some Americans really appreciate theirs contribution and heritage, and that's enough for me.

C'mon, I just posted a million times we don't look at anyone else for our identity, we just don't relate to Natives because they didn't set the foundations for our culture. Are you wearing colored glasses? I also said Americans don't recognize the contributions of Europeans to things we use today. This has nothing to do with discriminating, it's just the culture. I've been trying to word this as many ways as possible, but I keep getting the samething, I don't know how I can say it any other way.