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Samuel Huntington, Political Scientist, Dies at 81

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  Quote Kevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Samuel Huntington, Political Scientist, Dies at 81
    Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 18:48
BOSTON (AP) — Samuel P. Huntington, a political scientist best known for his views on the clash of civilizations, died Wednesday on Martha’s Vineyard. He was 81.
 
 
A great politcal scientest indeed and one whose ideas are respected by me.
 
I've been meaing to actually pick up some of his books to read but I haven't had time to recently    
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 22:58
It is sad when anyone dies, and may he RIP -  but please GREAT?
I have to worry about you if you actually respect some of his ideas. The Clash of Civilization has had to be one of the worst political theories of the last 20 decades or more. Please be real.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 23:27
Too bad Huntington died, but he was wrong about Latin America, and contributed to the wave of xenophoby that Hispanics have suffered at the U.S. in recent years.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 23:29
Originally posted by pinguin

Too bad Huntington died, but he was wrong about Latin America, and contributed to the wave of xenophoby that Hispanics have suffered at the U.S. in recent years.


...and a lot of of other places, too...
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2008 at 12:01
I won't pretend to be sad over the death of someone I have no relationship with, but I do respect him as an influential (if "great" is too subjective) political scientist. Of course he is not PC anymore, which means his funeral will be accompanied by some dirt throwing.
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2008 at 14:28
He was definitely influential and it is no surprise that racists love him.

However, he was obviously an orientalist tool of his masters, quite like Bernard Lewis. Not a great scientist or thinker at all. 

Many talk about his theories but few have actually read him. I am one of those few. Interestingly, Latin America is one of the few things he is right about, when he says that it is not Western. Not so much because I belive what he believes, but because Latin America is not as developed as the Western countries.  
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 02:32

Huntington was wrong in Latin America because he confussed GDP with belonging to a civilization. He was a WASP centered man. I bet he become sick when he found out the next president of the U.S. would be half Black African.

Now, the Latin American writer that really show Huntington was an intellectual pigmey was Carlos Fuentes. I invite you to read the following article where he really blows the right winger out.
 
Huntington and the Mask of Racism

Carlos Fuentes, the Mexican novelist, is a member of NPQ’s advisory board. Translation by Thomas D. Morin, Professor of Hispanic Studies, University of Rhode Island, Kingston.

Mexico City—“The best Indian is a dead Indian.” “The best nigger is a nigger slave.” “The yellow threat.” “The red threat.” The Puritanism one finds at the base of WASP culture (White, Anglo Saxon, and Protestant) in the United States of America expresses itself, from time to time, with shocking color. Now, another of these forceful and freely expressed simplistic ideas can be added to the colorful expressions already mentioned: “The Brown Menace.”

The proponent of this idea is Professor Samuel P. Huntington, the tireless voice of alarm with respect to the menace that the idea of the “other” represents for the foundational soul of white, protestant, Anglo-Saxon United States of America. That there existed (and, still, exists) an indigenous-“America” (Huntington uses the United States as a name for the entire continent) prior to the European colonization is of no concern to him. That besides Anglo-America, there existed a prior French-“America” (Louisiana) and, even, a Russian-America (Alaska) is of no interest to Huntington. What worries him is Hispanic-America, the America of Ruben Dario, the America that speaks Spanish and believes in God. For Huntington, this brown danger is an indispensable danger for a nation that requires, in order to exist, an identifiable external menace. Moby Dick, the white whale, is a symbol of this attitude which, fortunately, not all North Americans share, including John Quincy Adams, the sixth president of the North American nation, who warned his countrymen: “Let us not go out into the world in search of monsters to destroy.”

Huntington, in his Clash of Civilizations, discovers his necessary external monster (once the USSR and “the red danger” disappeared) in an Islam poised to assault the borders of Western Civilization, in an attempt to outdo the feats of Saladino, the Sultan, who captured Jerusalem in 1187. As a result, Huntington outdoes the Christian Crusade of Richard the Lion Hearted in the Holy Land. Huntington the Lion Hearted’s anti-Islamic Crusade expresses the profound racism in his heart and, in similar manner, his profound ignorance of the true kulturkampf evident in the Islamic world. Islam is not poised to invade the West. Islam is living, from Algeria to Iran, its own cultural and political battle between conservatives and Islamic liberals. It is a vertical battle, deep within, not a horizontal one of expansion.

The Mexican as exploiter | Huntington’s new crusade is directed against Mexico and the Mexicans that live, work, and enrich life in the northern nation. As far as Huntington is concerned, Mexicans do not live—they invade; they do not work—they exploit; and, they do not enrich—they impoverish, since poverty is part a Mexican’s natural condition. All of this, when taking into account the number of Mexicans and Latin Americans in the United States, constitutes a cultural threat for that which Huntington dares to mention: the Anglo-American, Protestant, and Anglo speaking white race.

Are Mexicans invading the US? No, they are simply obeying the laws of the job market. There are job offers for Mexicans because there is a North American labor need. If some day, there were to exist full employment in Mexico, the US would have to find cheap labor from another country for the jobs whites, Saxons, and Protestants—naming them as does Huntington—do not want to fill, since they have either surpassed these levels of employment, or because they have grown old, due to the fact that the economy of the US has passed from the industrial period, to the post-industrial, technological, information age.

Do Mexicans exploit the US? According to Huntington, Mexicans constitute an unjust burden for the US economy: they receive more than they give back.

All of this is false. California earmarks a billion dollars a year to educate the children of immigrants. But if it were to do otherwise—listen up, Schwarzenegger—the state would lose $16 billion a year in federal aid to education. Similarly, Mexican migrant workers pay $29 billion a year more in taxes than the services they receive.

The Mexican immigrant, far from being an impoverishing burden, as assumed by Huntington, creates wealth for all economic levels. At the most humble worker level, the expulsion of Mexican immigrants would be ruinous for the US. John Kenneth Galbraith (the kind of North American that Huntington cannot be) writes the following: “ If all the undocumented people in the US were to be expelled, the effect on the North American economy...would be nothing less than disastrous...Fruit and vegetables in Florida, Texas and California would not be harvested. The price of food products would rise to incredible levels. The Mexican people that want to come to the US are necessary, and clearly add to everyone’s well-being.” (The Nature of Mass Poverty)

On another level, the Hispanic migrant, as Gregory Rodriguez, from Pepperdine University, tells us, has the highest number of salaried individuals per family than any other ethnic group. So, too, is his level of family cohesiveness. The result is that, while the father of the family may have arrived barefoot and soaking wet, the descendents of migrants have attained income levels comparable to those of Asian and Caucasian laborers. By the second and third generation, 55 percent of Hispanic households are owners of their own homes, compared to 71 percent of white households and 44 percent of black households.

I would like to add to the figures given by Professor Rodriguez the fact that in Los Angeles County alone, the number of businesses created by Hispanic migrants rose from 57,ooo in 1987 to 210,ooo last year. Since 1990, the purchasing power of Hispanics has risen 65 percent. Furthermore, the Hispanic American economy in the US generates almost $400 billion a year—more than the Gross National Product of Mexico.

Do we Hispanics exploit or contribute, Mr. Huntington?

Mexican Balkanization | According to Huntington, the sheer numbers and customs of Mexican migrants will end up Balkanizing the US. North American unity has absorbed the European immigrant (including Jew and Arabs, who are not specifically mentioned by Huntington) because the immigrant of old, such as Chaplin in the movie of the same name, came from Europe, crossed the ocean and being white and Christian assimilated quickly into Anglo-Saxon culture and forgot his language and native customs, something which might surprise the Italians in The Godfather and the Central Europeans in The Deer Hunter.

No. Only the Mexicans and the Hispanics, in general, are separatists. These people have conspired to create a separate Hispanic American nation, the soldiers of a re-conquest of the territories lost in the Mexican-American War of 1848.

If we were to turn the page over, we would find English to be the most spoken Western language. Does Huntington ever think that this fact reveals to all a silent North American invasion of the entire world? Would we Mexicans, Chileans, French, Egyptians, Japanese and Hindi be justified in prohibiting English to be spoken in our respective countries? To stigmatize the Spanish language as a divisive, practically subversive, factor demonstrates the racist, divisive and provocative spirit of Professor Huntington.

To speak a second (or a third or fourth language) is a sign of culture throughout the world excepting, it would seem, in the Monolingual Eden invented by Huntington. To establish the requirement of a second language in the US (as occurs in Mexico and in France) would eliminate the Satanic effects that Huntington attributes to the language of Cervantes. Hispanic speakers in the US do not form impenetrable nor aggressive groups. They adapt themselves rapidly to English and, at times, conserve the use of Spanish, thus, enriching the accepted multiethnic and multicultural character of the US.

All in all, mono-lingualism is a curable disease. Many of us Latin Americans speak English without fear of being contaminated. Huntington presents us with an image of the US as a fearful trembling giant attacked by Spanish speakers. His tactic is fear of the “other,” so favored by fascist mentalities.

No: The Mexican and the Hispanic, in general, contribute to the wealth of the US. They give more than they receive. They wish to integrate themselves in the North American nation. They attenuate the cultural isolationism that has led the governments in Washington to so many disastrous international situations. They advocate a political diversification that has been brought about by Afro Americans, Native American, the Irish, Poles, Russians and Italians, Swedes and Germans, Arabs and Jews.

The Mexican menace | Huntington brings to the fore a musty anti-Mexican racism that I knew, all to well, as a child studying in the North American capital. The Volume Library, a one volume encyclopedia published in 1928 in New York, said the following: “One reason for Mexican poverty is the predominance of its racial inferiority.” “No dogs nor Mexicans allowed,” read the signs written on numerous restaurant facades in Texas during the Thirties. Today, the Latino electorate is seduced with mixed phrases in Spanish by many candidates, among them Gore and Bush during the last electoral process. It is an electoral campaign tactic (similar to Bush’s recent migration proposal).

But for us, Mexicans, Spaniards and Hispanic Americans, what is certain is that language is a factor of pride and unity. Five hundred million men and women speak Spanish around the world. But, it is not a fear factor, nor a menace. If Huntington fears the Hispanic Balkanization of the US and wishes to blame Latin American for its incapacity to establish democratic governments and economic development, we, at least, have lived without nationalistic separatisms since the dawn of Independence.

Perhaps what unites us is what Huntington believes disunites: the multicultural nature of the Spanish language. As Hispanic Americans and Spanish speakers, we are, also, Indo-European and Afro-American. We are the descendants of one nation, Spain, which cannot be understood without its racial multiplicity and Celt-Iberian, Greek, Phoenician, Roman, Arabic, Judaic, Gothic linguistic system. We speak a language with Celt-Iberian followed by Latin roots, enriched by a good portion of Arabic words and set in place by the Jews of the 13th century in the court of Alphonse the Wise.

With all we have mentioned, we are winners, not losers. The loser is Huntington, isolated in his imaginary land of Anglo speaking, white and Protestant racial purity. Even, if, in a curiously benevolent way, he offers his space to “Christianism.” Most assuredly, Israel and Islam are menaces to be equally condemned as are Mexico and Hispanic America, and, by extension today’s Spain, for their undesirable incursions into the old territories of Huntington’s Kingdom.

An idle question: Who will become the next Moby Dick of Captain Ahab Huntington?

 
 
 
 
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 14:48
The bashing of a dead guy, who was a Harvard professor, an accomplished academic and well known, is absolutely pathetic.
 
So you don't like his ideas.....so what?  Disagree, but be adult about it.  The childish bashing of a prominent academic most of you probably never even read is ridiculous coming from a bunch of people hiding behind internet handles.  LOL
 
 
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 17:00
Very sad that this amazing person passed away. "Clash of civilizations" is a very meaningful piece.
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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 17:11
Hi, Pike,

It is not his personal life that is being assessed, but his professional one. And I believe that it is fair play to assess a person's life achievements. It is a long tradition in, ehem, Western Civilization, going back at least to Aristotle when he said that one should judge the character of people taking into account their entire life.

As you can see, we are just exercising an ancient Western civilization practice.


Huntington's views were flawed from an objective perspective. The world doesn't act the way he described it. Are there different worldviews in the world? Sure that was known for a long time. Do people who share a religion share a common worldview? Maybe.

But to highlight how flawed Huntington was, let me focus on his opinion that Latin America was a civilization different from the Western civilization.

First, most Latin Americans identify with Western Civilization. Why? Well, let's start by making the very obvious observation, which escaped Huntington, that they speak European languages. And they practice European religions. And Latin American societies are offshoots of Spanish society from the early 19th century the same way that the U.S. and Canada are offshoots of 18th century British society.

Are they differences between Spain and Latin America? Yes, the same way they are difference between the U.S. and England.

And Latin Americans view the difference between their countries and the U.S. as differences within the common civilization, the same way there are differences between the continent and the British Isles.

But more importantly, Latin Americans don't see themselves as a separate civilization. There can be no worldview which the participant doesn't recognized. Yet the "accomplish academic" made a terrible blunder by inventing a civilization that those that belong to it don't know that it exists. They have no identity connected to it.


Now, his idea that there are different worldviews in conflict doesn't necessarily make it racist. We know that there is conflict in the world, and that it is often colored by religion. The problem is that his fleshing out of his theory is indeed racist, as Carlos Fuentes points out.

If a person's life work was racist, well, that was the life that they chose to have. Huntington, it seems, never had a chance to redeemed himself. Too bad for him. He had plenty of time to do it. Hey, if George Wallace had the courage to repent and turn his life around, Huntington could have done it too.

Edited by hugoestr - 30-Dec-2008 at 17:11
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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 17:15
So if he is a Harvard professor he gets immunity from criticism? I think this is childish.
 
Anyway many people criticised him while he was alive and broke him during real intellectual discussions (a thing you never heard about obviously). However he does have some sense in his exposition but that doesn't mean he got it right.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 17:15
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

The bashing of a dead guy, who was a Harvard professor, an accomplished academic and well known, is absolutely pathetic.
 
So you don't like his ideas.....so what?  Disagree, but be adult about it.  The childish bashing of a prominent academic most of you probably never even read is ridiculous coming from a bunch of people hiding behind internet handles.  LOL
 
 
 
Hello,
 
I am not anonymous. My name is Omar Ernesto Vega Martínez. Id Card 7298829-9 from Chile. And I don't know why the fact the guy is dead should make us forget he was wrong.
The article above of Carlos Fuentes was published when he was alive and well, anyways.
 
Huntington anti-Hispanic bashing can't be forgotten by Hispanics who know where he pointed.
 
O. Vega, allias Pinguin
 
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 17:17
I think most people that responded know and have read his work Pike. Otherwise the critiquing of his achievements would be useless. 
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 17:32
Originally posted by pinguin

 
Huntington anti-Hispanic bashing can't be forgotten by Hispanics who know where he pointed. 
 
What exactly was this bashing about except the "civilizational separation" of Latin America from Iberia?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 17:37
Read the article of Carlos Fuentes in my post above. He'll explain a lot better than myself.
However, the true is we see ourselves belonging to the Western Civilization because we are part of it. What else we could be? You don't take Albania out of Europe because it is poor, or Mongolia out of East Asia because it is also poor. That's the critics against Huntington


Edited by pinguin - 30-Dec-2008 at 17:38
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 17:37
Originally posted by Al Jassas

So if he is a Harvard professor he gets immunity from criticism? I think this is childish.
 
Anyway many people criticised him while he was alive and broke him during real intellectual discussions (a thing you never heard about obviously). However he does have some sense in his exposition but that doesn't mean he got it right.
 
Al-Jassas
 
I didn't say, nor did I imply, that he was immune from criticism.  Neither am I; nor are you.  However, this kind of attitude, when an idea is not fashionable, is very typical of our membership.
 
What I said was that this bashing is childish.  My opinion.  Huntington accomplished more in his life and career certainly than the majority of us, so we should not get all excited over ourselves in relation to him.
 
I am not a fan of universal history, so I doubt everything he thought is correct.  As to whether he "got it right" in some form, we might need fifty years to know that.  I'll be dead then, so others can check on it.
 
  
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 17:53
Oh, incidentally, I do think Latin America is part of Western civilization.  Smile
 
 
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 18:25
Originally posted by pinguin

Read the article of Carlos Fuentes in my post above. He'll explain a lot better than myself.
However, the true is we see ourselves belonging to the Western Civilization because we are part of it. What else we could be? You don't take Albania out of Europe because it is poor, or Mongolia out of East Asia because it is also poor. That's the critics against Huntington
 
I read this article and I'm not satisfied with this "criticism" at all.
 
The main idea of Huntington is that the civilizational ideologies and self-consciousness are different. There is no doubt that a Mexican immigrant view himself differently from Americans and belonging to another cultural/civilizational entity.
 
What's wrong with that?
 
Huntington just pointed out that as long as this civilizational conflict exist there will be problems. As long as Mexicans living in the USA associate themselves more with Mexico that with the US there will be problems of cultural integration and potential conflicts.
 
What's wrong with this idea?
 
You can't of course take Albania out of Europe because it's poor, but you can view it differently based on civilizational/ideological/cultural approach because one can also say that Albania is a part of Islamic world.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 18:33

What's wrong with the idea? Germans and French could have different nationalities, cultures and language, but they belong to the same civilization.  The same between the people of Mexico and the U.S.

The idea of Huntington of asociating the U.S. to the West while leaving Mexico besides is simply unacceptable. If Huntington had defined a regional culture and called it ANGLOSAXON Protestant culture, nobody would had complained with that, but he hadn't the courage to say it so. Mr. Huntington wanted the West for WASP people alone. That's were it hurt us.
No matter Mexican charros use large sombreros, they can also trace theirs culture to Iberia and Rome.


Edited by pinguin - 30-Dec-2008 at 18:35
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2008 at 18:44
IMO although Latin American Civilization has its roots in Europe it doesn't necessarily mean that both belong to the same civilization now. Besides, Latin America has a much bigger influx of indigenous American culture than the US culture.
 
So, some similar origins don't imply absolute continuity. Huntington, actually clearly pointed out that the Western, Latin American and also Christian Orthodox (as he called) it as well as Islamic Civilization all have common roots; but this fact by itself doesn't negate all the differences that developed.
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