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    Posted: 31-Dec-2008 at 20:24
Look, why don't yo just drop an H-Bomb rach on Gaza and the W Bank and end this mess. We know for a fact that niether Israel or its backers for reasons of their own interests support anything but death and misery for the Palestinians. Not that I am blamig them, nations must act in it. But its the hypocricy that gets me. Be merciful, end it.
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Posts: 2394 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2008 at 22:06

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

Palestinians could play the same game as Israel, let them come to them with force and show it to the world.

No they can't. Israel comes to Palestine with force all the time, and the world never hears about it. Do you hear about settlers shooting Palestinian farmers during the olive harvest? Doesn't make the news, but it happens every year. That's just a simple example.

They can't play the same game because they just don't have the same level of resources either financially or in terms of contacts in the outside world. If they could play the same game, they'd just go bomb a hotel or two, throw some grenades into coffee shops, shoot up a few busses, and it would get them their own state, just as it did for Irgun.

The US was trying to broker many peace deals in the 80s to early 90s I believe.

Yes, and the Israeli PM who signed on to the most productive of these - the Oslo agreement - got a bullet in the head from an Orthodox settler. Needless to say, Oslo pretty much fell apart in the aftermath.

But I get the feeling that if the US is ever successful, people here will be just saying that the US turned the Palestinians into puppets. Perhaps more nations should get involved? It wasn't until the current Bush admin took office that they pretty completely stopped working on peace there.

Let's not forget that the US involvement is, and has always been, largely one-sided. It's American bombs that are dropping on Palestinian homes, and it's not like Israel actually pays for them - they are a gratuity, courtesy of the American taxpayer.

Absolutely, more nations should be involved, but it won't happen. If enough nations got together they could certainly push both Israel and the Palestinians to accept peace, one way or another. But why would they do so? What bloc is going to form and alienate both groups of supporters - both the US, and all of the Middle Eastern states? Whoever did that would quickly be labelled an antisemitic neo-Axis by the US and a Zionist tool by the Middle East.

The US alone could do it ... the problem is that AIPAC is an incredibly powerful lobby, possibly the most powerful lobby in Washington, and no American politican can afford to go up against it. So that's not going to happen either.

It's all totally pointless, an utter waste of human life ... and an utter waste of breath to discuss, really. Maybe if the world completely gave up on these two peoples, stopped sending them money and weapons and stopped talking or caring about either side, they'd be forced to solve it for themselves. We do have much bigger fish to fry - this is not really as serious a conflict as all the hysteria surrounding it would lead one to think. A conflict in a tiny little country involving less than 6000 fatalities does not merit the kind of attention we pay ...

The way I see it, there's only two solutions: we either go in there guns blazing and haul off all the leaders from both sides to their richly deserved cells in the Hague, or we just quit giving a damn. This ... hesitant hysteria we practice is the real problem.



Edited by edgewaters - 31-Dec-2008 at 22:31
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Originally posted by Parnell


What are we waiting for? Why not have the apocolypse now and get it over with?

Hey mate if reality is depressing for you you're going to have to just deal with it. There are occasions when you have no choice but to fight, and the Palestinians are in one. For them the apocolypse is a step up.
Originally posted by S&D

Which maybe the truth, but it's always the provoking by Hamas that makes these thread and news stories, and it's the news that always benefits Israel.

What a load! Just because your media is so far up the zionist arse it can't see sunlight doesn't mean you should actually believe that crap. This latest issue started when Israel unleased on Palestine and killed over 200 people.
Israel wants you to believe that Hamas is always provoking them, it makes getting away with their atrocities that much easier.
It does nothing for Palestine!

Yes it does, it maintains their self-esteem.
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Originally posted by Parnell

Originally posted by malizai_

Originally posted by Parnell

And you claim your anti-war. Don't dare and try to question the rest of our motives - its obvious you've never lived in a place anywere near Palestine. Your opinions are no more morally superior to any supposed 'Israeli apologists'.

Your morally superior self righteous crap is exactly what I'm talking about. Its better for all when people like you don't get a voice at any sort of peace negotiations because your short term brain is inundated with tales of hardship and oppression with no capacity for thinking of the future.
 
And Ireland is twinned with Jordan, great argumets BTW.


Ireland is twinned with Northern Ireland actually, and I know a thing or two about partition, repression and despair, even if I am a generation after.

Just keep the pontifications for your Marxist Revolutionary meetings. Most civilised people don't want to hear the self-righteous ramblings of someone who clearly doesn't understand what living in a warzone is like.
 
Northern Ireland is no Gaza!! It just  shows  how much you really know or understand. A bit of advise. Rather than trying to belittle other people, get your head out of your a*** and do what people did on the road to becoming civilized, learn.
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Originally posted by edge

No they can't. Israel comes to Palestine with force all the time, and the world never hears about it
Thats the game I'm talking about. Make Israel seem like the bad guy by showing their first strikes and not responding. Like I said, they're responce doesn't do anything, so don't answer back with "what? are they supposed to just let it happen?"
They can't play the same game because they just don't have the same level of resources either financially or in terms of contacts in the outside world. If they could play the same game, they'd just go bomb a hotel or two, throw some grenades into coffee shops, shoot up a few busses, and it would get them their own state, just as it did for Irgun.
I ment playing with innocent game. Thats the only reason Israel comes out on top.
Let's not forget that the US involvement is, and has always been, largely one-sided. It's American bombs that are dropping on Palestinian homes, and it's not like Israel actually pays for them - they are a gratuity, courtesy of the American taxpayer.
The companies the make the bombs are not government owned. The weapons get certified by the government for foreign sale. When this happens, another country places a order, and THEIR citizens use THEIR tax money to buy them. My uncle owns a company with military contracts, no company is owned by the government itself. So don't pull that.
 
The US alone could do it ... the problem is that AIPAC is an incredibly powerful lobby, possibly the most powerful lobby in Washington, and no American politican can afford to go up against it. So that's not going to happen either.
I doubt the US could do it alone. But your not kidding about that lobby. It has already destroyed one politicians career when he said he'd cut ties with Israel. He went from winning numbers to losing badly in the election.
It's all totally pointless, an utter waste of human life ... and an utter waste of breath to discuss, really. Maybe if the world completely gave up on these two peoples, stopped sending them money and weapons and stopped talking or caring about either side, they'd be forced to solve it for themselves.
I've been saying the whole time that it's a waste to discuss the entire issue throughout the thread. Which is why I've been trying to focus on the current event.
Originally posted by Omar

What a load! Just because your media is so far up the zionist arse it can't see sunlight doesn't mean you should actually believe that crap.
Is everything backed by zionist? Anyways, I just saw today CNN talking about all the wrongs Israel does, sounds very zionist...
And call it provoking, responding, malicious, whatever you'd like, the fact is Hamas shouldn't fire the rockets when they do nothing for their cause and bring only more hurt for their people. Thats my point.
This latest issue started when Israel unleased on Palestine and killed over 200 people.
Appearantly alot goes unnoticed with Israel's actions. In either case, I already knew Israel has been malicious, I don't agree with them. But I find it idiotic that Hamas keeps using the same tactics that do nothing for their people except bring pain. And thats been my only real arguement.
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Originally posted by malizai_

Originally posted by Parnell

Originally posted by malizai_

Originally posted by Parnell

And you claim your anti-war. Don't dare and try to question the rest of our motives - its obvious you've never lived in a place anywere near Palestine. Your opinions are no more morally superior to any supposed 'Israeli apologists'.

Your morally superior self righteous crap is exactly what I'm talking about. Its better for all when people like you don't get a voice at any sort of peace negotiations because your short term brain is inundated with tales of hardship and oppression with no capacity for thinking of the future.
 
And Ireland is twinned with Jordan, great argumets BTW.


Ireland is twinned with Northern Ireland actually, and I know a thing or two about partition, repression and despair, even if I am a generation after.

Just keep the pontifications for your Marxist Revolutionary meetings. Most civilised people don't want to hear the self-righteous ramblings of someone who clearly doesn't understand what living in a warzone is like.
 
Northern Ireland is no Gaza!! It just  shows  how much you really know or understand. A bit of advise. Rather than trying to belittle other people, get your head out of your a*** and do what people did on the road to becoming civilized, learn.


I never said it was. And there maybe some value to what you say. Just leave the pariochialism to one side.
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Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

Thats the game I'm talking about. Make Israel seem like the bad guy by showing their first strikes and not responding.

That happens all the time ... it just doesn't make headlines. 

The companies the make the bombs are not government owned. The weapons get certified by the government for foreign sale. When this happens, another country places a order, and THEIR citizens use THEIR tax money to buy them. My uncle owns a company with military contracts, no company is owned by the government itself. So don't pull that.

I don't think you understand. Israel receives direct transfers of military hardware from the US as part of its aid package - no cost. Alot of its purchases are also underwritten by the US government as part of the FMF (Foreign Military Financing) program. Israel is by far the largest single recipient under FMF, receiving between 1 and 2 billion dollars annually depending on the administration. Israel has been receiving such funds and transfers since 1976 - as of 2001 the value of those transfers exceed $80 billion and has increased vastly since then under the Bush administration and the current geopolitical climate. So yes, those bombs are very often courtesy of the American taxpayer - that's a fact, and I'm not "pulling" anything. Israel simply could not afford to continue to prosecute this conflict and maintain a modern economy at the same time if it were forced to do so on its own dime.



Edited by edgewaters - 01-Jan-2009 at 05:49
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Hello S&D

Obviously you know little about how the weapons industry work in the US.

Congress and before it the President must agree on any purchase involving high tech weapons, fighters or any planes for that matter and certain military technologies like GPS (the US run one not the one you have on your car). Edge explained the rest.

 
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Congress and before it the President must agree on any purchase involving high tech weapons, fighters or any planes for that matter and certain military technologies like GPS (the US run one not the one you have on your car). Edge explained the rest.
I know this. What exactly does that have to do with what I said? The US Government isn't making the weapons, and US citizens aren't buying weapons to give to other countries. My point still stands.
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Posts: 4613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2009 at 07:40
Originally posted by Al Jassas

Hello Leo

Are really talking with your full and uncompromised senses? what kind of a f**ing state is Palestine going to be if it accepted the proposals above.

This is insane. The international community (UN security council) guaranteed in Madrid and Oslo as well as subsequent binding agreements that Israel should give everything to the 67 borders and not an inch less. The maps above contain lands Israel colonized after Oslo and after Camp David and after Annapolis. It also contains land that Israel haven't even colonised yet. It contains practically all the excellent farming lands the Palestinians still have as well as water and mineral resources.

 
What you are saying is that the Palestinians should not only give up half the west Bank including land colonized and grabbed AFTER Oslo, they should accept the fact that at any moment even with a finalized peace deal Israel will grab more land and kick more Palestinians. What kind of peace is this? What kind of a state that has shifting and ever shrinking borders?
 
The US/Israel are changing the rules of the game in the middle of the match, the rules that apply againt other people don't apply to them. They have the audacity to demand a full and uncompromisable application of UN rules on Lebanon but when it comes to deal struck by Israelis themselves, the game can change.
 
This is why Arafat refused the 2000 deal, this is why Abbas refused the newest deal.
 
AL-Jassas
I think you miss read or misinterpreted my post/position. Please read the quote taken from the Taba notes i provided.

The Israeli's had given up these demands, and the territorial issues was around the check points, airspace and the status of the connecting roads. And no, the palistinains didnt walk away in disgust, they came very close to an agreement. My point is; the talks were worth persueing and you will have to accept it is going to be very close to 1967 borders but not exactly that. If you can get 98-96% and a total stopping of the Isreali settelment growth/land grab, that is a whole lot better than the status quo, (that map doesnt show in my post) which by the way is the Isreali settelment growth/land grab. get it? you cannot stop this while throwing mud at this pig . They prefer this 'resistance', its futile and they can  control the situation - grow more.

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim


Mark my words, Israels future is entirely in the hands of the Palestinians. If the Zionists do not give justice to the Palestinians then in the future the Israelis will have to beg for justice from the Palestinians.

Omar i agree, but they have to be intact and able when that time comes. preservation should be the top priorty when one is weak.
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Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

The US Government isn't making the weapons, and US citizens aren't buying weapons to give to other countries. My point still stands.

The government isn't making the weapons, but it is funding their purchase on behalf of Israel via the FMF funding, to the tune of $80 billion in weapons from 1976-2001 (probably about $90 billion by now) - all out of the American taxpayer's pocket.



Edited by edgewaters - 01-Jan-2009 at 09:19
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Hello Leo
 
No, Israel gave up nothing. The western media keeps ignoring the facts and what really happened in 2000 and later and concentrate on ambigous fantasies supported by the US.
 
The US accepted that current colonies in the west bank, particularly the big ones, which occupy 30% or more of today's west Bank and accepted in principle the right of "natural growth":
 
This means that even with a peace settlement, Israel could at any moment expand as it wishes and the Palestinians bite the dust:
 
 
The so called 94% offer+ land exchange is nothing but a big farce. The 6% the Israelis will not give up is the basis of the entire problem. The old city including the Mosque and the churches. These will be the property of Israel. The deal if struck mean that Israel had EVERY right to that 6% the west is blaming Arafat for not accepting. Israel already has plans to demolish the entire old city and build the temple and refused even to give guarantees about them. From every angle of international law they had every right to refuse such demands. Actually Palestinians don't have a problem giving up the land already colonised however they do have a problem giving up the old city. Also the land given to the Palestinians is nothing but rocky desert.
 
Also that generous offer you talked about earlier, it wasn't exactly a direct offer. That is it was by piecemeal and with so many conditions attached to it that it was practically useless since the land will always be controlled by Israel (the offer included no man's land, security zones, developement restrictions, and many other things).
 
The deal will in the end split the West Bank into two, take the best agricultural lands of North West Bank and around Jerusalem and give it to the Israelis for rocks and stones of the Negev that are by the way toxicated by radiation from Dimona. Demolish several villages in the west bank and distroy the agricultural lands there to establish the no man's land and security zones and finally, allow for more land grab in the future.
 
This was the best deal the Israelis ever gave (in 2000). No do you wonder why the Palestinians refused.
 
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Posts: 4613 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2009 at 12:44
Originally posted by Al Jassas

Hello Leo
 
No, Israel gave up nothing. The western media keeps ignoring the facts and what really happened in 2000 and later and concentrate on ambigous fantasies supported by the US.
 
The US accepted that current colonies in the west bank, particularly the big ones, which occupy 30% or more of today's west Bank and accepted in principle the right of "natural growth":

This means that even with a peace settlement, Israel could at any moment expand as it wishes and the Palestinians bite the dust:
not entirely true if you follow the link that is provided in your own BBC story, this one
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2989783.stm
(The roadmap: Full text)
Settlements

  • GOI immediately dismantles settlement outposts erected since March 2001.

  • Consistent with the Mitchell Report, GOI freezes all settlement activity (including natural growth of settlements).


    •  
    Originally posted by Al Jassas

    The so called 94% offer+ land exchange is nothing but a big farce. The 6% the Israelis will not give up is the basis of the entire problem. The old city including the Mosque and the churches. These will be the property of Israel. The deal if struck mean that Israel had EVERY right to that 6% the west is blaming Arafat for not accepting. Israel already has plans to demolish the entire old city and build the temple and refused even to give guarantees about them. From every angle of international law they had every right to refuse such demands. Actually Palestinians don't have a problem giving up the land already colonised however they do have a problem giving up the old city. Also the land given to the Palestinians is nothing but rocky desert.
    None of that was final, your jumping the gun as the talks were never concluded. The Palestinians accepted the second map, from the Taba round as a starting basis for talks, thats it, it was not final.


    Originally posted by Al Jassas

    Also that generous offer you talked about earlier, it wasn't exactly a direct offer. That is it was by piecemeal and with so many conditions attached to it that it was practically useless since the land will always be controlled by Israel (the offer included no man's land, security zones, developement restrictions, and many other things).
    Did i say it was generous? where did i say it was generous? I am getting tired of remarks that some how infer i am on the Isreali side of this.

    Lets getting some things straight;
    the Arabs have lost their wars, they failed in battle,
    the intifada has failed ,
    the corrupt FATAH Palistinian leadership has failed ,
    the corrupt poor excuse of the arab leadership in the region has failed in everything but being loyal western puppets and,
    HAMAS is failing to provide realistic answers.

    The Palistinians do not have allot of options or real freinds.  they can wait and risk another Areil to be built or they can stop the land grab and accept its not going to be fair. its never  fair. Get what they can and rebuild. Self preservation and security from isreal should be number one priority from their leadership and their 'freinds', then start think about justice. Its easy for you and for all these other emotional posters to say fight it, stand up, but no one here is paying the price like they are.
     
    Originally posted by Al Jassas

    The deal will in the end split the West Bank into two, take the best agricultural lands of North West Bank and around Jerusalem and give it to the Israelis for rocks and stones of the Negev that are by the way toxicated by radiation from Dimona. Demolish several villages in the west bank and distroy the agricultural lands there to establish the no man's land and security zones and finally, allow for more land grab in the future.
     
    This was the best deal the Israelis ever gave (in 2000). No do you wonder why the Palestinians refused.
     
    AL-Jassas
    refer to the Taba map in 2001, and take care in reading my posts. What Olmert offered is a little less.
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    Posts: 1810     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2009 at 13:51
    Hello Leo
     
    The question here isn't about the Arab regimes, if the dictators wanted to end Israel they would have done that in 48, when their half trained ill-equipped and grossly outnumbered armies took 80% of Historical Palestine. Arab dictators fear on their chaires more than they fear on the Palestinians and most never did a didllysquat for the Palestinians. If they liberate what was occupied from them people will start asking for change. They chose not to fight and keep opressing their people and Israel pledged not to begin one since the old guys are better than new ones. That is why Syria is liberating its territory by fighting to the last Lebanese.
     
    Nor its a failure of the Palestinians, they gave more than enough already to the Israelis without any reciporical.
     
    The question here is about does Israel really want peace? The answer is no and neither its people who keep electing people who refuse to give peace.
     
    The reality is the paper Israel/US signs on is as worthless as a used toilet paper. In Oslo the Israel gave word that it will follow the peace including stopping colonies and the US pledged to force Israel to do that. What happened is that to this day the US bakrolled the doubling of the colonies (over $10 billion ), so why the Palestinians should ever accept a peace deal that is not going to be applied in the first place?
     
    Now to your response, have read the dates on the stories, the roadmap was issued in 2003, the US acceptence of colonies as a fact on the ground came in 2004. The roadmap is also worthless since the Israelis refused to apply any of its conditions. They realse a couple of hundred guys only to imprison 300 through the next week, the dismantle some roadblocks here only to build more on the other roads.
     
    Anyway, here are some points in the Taba agreements that you haven't read yet:
     
    1-Israel would have 8 permenant military installations (ie bases) within the West bank in points of its choosing, it is like Indonesia demanding bases on Cape York because of rebel activity in Aryan Jaya.
    2- Full control over West Bank airspace.
    3- A peacemeal withdrawl subject to the no man's lands and security zones mentioned above.
    4- And here is the tricky part, sovereignty over borders with Egypt and particularly with Jordan was not as full as one might expect from a full independent state.
     
    Now you should notice that I am not even talking about land grabs, I am discussing the most basic of all what defines states, sovereignty. Even the princely states of India had more sovereignty than the Palestinians.
     
    Al-Jassas
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    		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2009 at 15:15
    May I add that by recognising colonies as a "fact on the ground" can be taken as political support without wishing to commit strongly to moral consequences. If the US was in the habit of recognising facts based solely on the facts then it would long ago have recognised the two break-away regions in Georgia, the legitimacy of the Cuban government and the fact that the "Axis of Evil" is a politico-mythological invention.

    So you could not really say that the US OR Israel is in any way committed to peace. At least not until the evil forces of the Palestinian Education Ministry are defeated.
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    Posts: 2728     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2009 at 16:38
    The government isn't making the weapons, but it is funding their purchase on behalf of Israel via the FMF funding, to the tune of $80 billion in weapons from 1976-2001 (probably about $90 billion by now) - all out of the American taxpayer's pocket.
    The US gives about 2 billion a year, but that also helps alot of joint programs the two countries have. The US is also giving about 20 billion dollars worth of equipment to Egypt and Saudi Arabia. But in Israel's case, it benefits the US more due to technologies and other programs that are shared between the two countries.
     
    But even then, Israel still has to go directly to the private companies to purchase the weapons. They have been denied the ability to purchase Tomahawks for instance. Also they aren't allowed the purchase of anything with our stealth tech. Some believe that Israel actually have alot of spies within our government to get at alot of our technology. My point though is they aren't getting all the benefits, and the US benefits alot from the funding too. Your making it sound as if there's some Zionist conspiarcy playing pupetteer with the US Gov. Yeah they have a styrong lobby, but that doesn't mean the US gov is at every whim to the Israelis. They pay because they benefit.
     
    It used to be support to fend off Soviet influence, now it helps as a offset to Iranian. You talk about us have to look at the bigger picture in relation to the Israel-Palestine conflict, but it seems it's only focused to the underdogs so to speak. 
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    Posts: 1835     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2009 at 16:55
    Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

    The government isn't making the weapons, but it is funding their purchase on behalf of Israel via the FMF funding, to the tune of $80 billion in weapons from 1976-2001 (probably about $90 billion by now) - all out of the American taxpayer's pocket.
    The US gives about 2 billion a year, but that also helps alot of joint programs the two countries have. The US is also giving about 20 billion dollars worth of equipment to Egypt and Saudi Arabia. But in Israel's case, it benefits the US more due to technologies and other programs that are shared between the two countries.
     
    But even then, Israel still has to go directly to the private companies to purchase the weapons. They have been denied the ability to purchase Tomahawks for instance. Also they aren't allowed the purchase of anything with our stealth tech. Some believe that Israel actually have alot of spies within our government to get at alot of our technology. My point though is they aren't getting all the benefits, and the US benefits alot from the funding too. Your making it sound as if there's some Zionist conspiarcy playing pupetteer with the US Gov. Yeah they have a styrong lobby, but that doesn't mean the US gov is at every whim to the Israelis. They pay because they benefit.


    They also signed a military agreement last year, well two years before now, to give Isreal $30 Billion in aid as an extention for lasting "peace". I guess the American authorities are reminded again what Israel really means by the word "peace" now that they indiscriminantly kill Gaza civilians courtesy of the American taxpayer.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/world/middleeast/17israel.html?_r=1&ref=world
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    So thats about an extra billion over the years. So now it'll be 3 billion instead of 2, and that still helps the US. You'll notice if you read the article the US is think strategy. On top of that, these still go to joint projects the US and Israel share, and supposedly helps encourage the Israeli's to purchase from private companies like I said earlier.

    The US has alot more to gain and seeing as the US is looking out for it's own interests it makes sense. Both war fronts and those moves I believe point to a larger strategy of putting a large amount of preassure onto Iran. Has nothing to do with the "Zionist Conspiracy" that grips te world...
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    Snake in the Grass-Banned

    Joined: 13-Mar-2006
    Location: Canada
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    Posts: 2394     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2009 at 23:14

    Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

    They have been denied the ability to purchase Tomahawks for instance. Also they aren't allowed the purchase of anything with our stealth tech.

    No, they've been restricted quite a bit since they were caught reverse-engineering American hardware and selling it to the Chinese.

    Some believe that Israel actually have alot of spies within our government to get at alot of our technology.

    Seems a little far-fetched ... they wouldn't really have a need to do that. No more than anyone else, anyway. We Canadians have industrial espionage in the US and vice-versa, same with Britain or any other close US allies. Nothing exceptional here, I don't think.

    Your making it sound as if there's some Zionist conspiarcy playing pupetteer with the US Gov.

    I never suggested anything of the sort. I pointed out that the US backs Israel in a substantial way, and the American taxpayer buys a good deal of their military equipment. You denied it and accused me of "pulling" something, so I spilled the details on FMF. That's all.

    I also mentioned AIPAC, but that's hardly a conspiracy: it's right out in the open. So is JINSA. That's just a powerful lobby and a propaganda group, not a hidden cabal. Their aim is simple, to secure as much funding as possible, to exert leverage on American politicans, and to attempt to reduce the amount of leverage/conditions exerted by whatever funding they obtain. They obviously also have a stake in American foreign policy, but aren't always succesful in that regard (if they were, Egypt wouldn't be a big FMF receiver as well).

    I recognize you don't have a cartoonish view of things; it would be appreciated if you'd extend the same recognition! I don't believe in any Zionist conspiracies and I don't see this as a black and white issue, with Israelis wearing horns and Palestinians sporting halos.

    You talk about us have to look at the bigger picture in relation to the Israel-Palestine conflict, but it seems it's only focused to the underdogs so to speak.
    I mentioned the Middle East nations supporting the Palestinians in a similar manner, but nobody denied it, so there was no need to go into more detail.


    Edited by edgewaters - 01-Jan-2009 at 23:32
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    vulkan02 View Drop Down
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    Termythinator

    Joined: 27-Apr-2005
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    Posts: 1835     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2009 at 23:35
    Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

    So thats about an extra billion over the years. So now it'll be 3 billion instead of 2, and that still helps the US. You'll notice if you read the article the US is think strategy. On top of that, these still go to joint projects the US and Israel share, and supposedly helps encourage the Israeli's to purchase from private companies like I said earlier.

    The US has alot more to gain and seeing as the US is looking out for it's own interests it makes sense. Both war fronts and those moves I believe point to a larger strategy of putting a large amount of preassure onto Iran. Has nothing to do with the "Zionist Conspiracy" that grips te world...


    What kind of strategy are you talking about and how do can you possibly think that a blank-check support for this terrorist state is in the interest of the US or better say the average American like you and me? And why does US need to put pressure to Iran when Iran has said several times that its open to cooperation for a more stable Iraq? Is Iran threatening US or is it trying to counteract Israel which already has 100-150 nuclear warheads?

    No S&D the only thing US is fighting for is the interested of the terrorist regime of Israel and the Zionist Conspiracy hasn't gripped the world but you would have to be both blind and deaf by now not to see that it thoroughly controls the US government.
    The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
    Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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