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From Babylon to Scandinavia!

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: From Babylon to Scandinavia!
    Posted: 24-Dec-2008 at 19:51

It was interesting for me when I found some similarites between Babylonian Aloros and Scandinavian Ollerus.

http://xenohistorian.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/the-babylonian-connection-redone/

“Aloros, a Chaldean from Babylon, was the first king of the land and he reigned for ten Saroi. They say that he spread the story about himself that God appointed him shepherd of the people.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ullr

"When Odin was exiled, Ollerus was chosen to take his place. Ollerus ruled under the name Odin for ten years until the true Odin was called back, whereupon Ollerus retired to Sweden where he was slain by Danes."

I couldn't find any website which talks about it but there are several websites (especially religious ones) which talk about "The Identity of the Scandinavian Odin and Adon of Babylon":

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/2bab048.htm


1. Nimrod, or Adon, or Adonis, of Babylon, was the great war-god. Odin, as is well known, was the same.
2. Nimrod, in the character of Bacchus, was regarded as the god of wine; Odin is represented as taking no food but wine. For thus we read in the Edda: "As to himself he [Odin] stands in no need of food; wine is to him instead of every other aliment, according to what is said in these verses: The illustrious father of armies, with his own hand, fattens his two wolves; but the victorious Odin takes no other nourishment to himself than what arises from the unintermitted quaffing of wine" (MALLET, 20th Fable, vol. ii. p. 106).
3. The name of one of Odin's sons indicates the meaning of Odin's own name. Balder, for whose death such lamentations were made, seems evidently just the Chaldee form of Baal-zer, "The seed of Baal;" for the Hebrew z, as is well known, frequently, in the later Chaldee, becomes d. Now, Baal and Adon both alike signify "Lord"; and, therefore, if Balder be admitted to be the seed or son of Baal, that is as much as to say that he is the son of Adon; and, consequently, Adon and Odin must be the same. This, of course, puts Odin a step back; makes his son to be the object of lamentation and not himself; but the same was the case also in Egypt; for there Horus the child was sometimes represented as torn in pieces, as Osiris had been. Clemens Alexandrinus says (Cohortatio, vol. i. p. 30), "they lament an infants torn in pieces by the Titans." The lamentations for Balder are very plainly the counterpart of the lamentations for Adonis; and, of course, if Balder was, as the lamentations prove him to have been, the favourite form of the Scandinavian Messiah, he was Adon, or "Lord," as well as his father.
4. Then, lastly, the name of the other sons of Odin, the mighty and warlike Thor, strengthens all the foregoing conclusions. Ninyas, the son of Ninus or Nimrod, on his father's death, when idolatry rose again, was, of course, from the nature of the mystic system, set up as Adon, "the Lord." Now, as Odin had a son called Thor, so the second Assyrian Adon had a son called Thouros (Cedrenus, vol. i. p. 29). The name Thouros seems just to be another form of Zoro, or Doro, "the seed;" for Photius tells us that among the Greeks Thoros signified "Seed" (Lexicon, pars i. p. 93). The D is often pronounced as Th,--Adon, in the pointed Hebrew, being pronounced Athon. 2bab048.htm

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2009 at 11:42
Odin name has a scythian origin so the connection is nothing else than the scythian religion
TEN=god   Herodotos wrote that the scythian river god of the Dnyeper named borysthenes(isten=god, ten=god, tenger=sea, tengri=god).

The root of the word odin is this ten with an 'o' phoneme which indicate that this god is an old, elder,  ruler figure.
The hungarian word isten has a same meaning. Is, ush, os=ancestor, elder+ten=ISTEN




"T. Heyerdahl and P. Lillieström (2001) believe that the Scandinavian god Odin was indeed a Proto-Slavonic king who lived near the Sea of Azov (now it is the Rostov-on-Don region, Russia) in 100 - 200 A.D. Then this king was forced out by the Romans from the area of the Don river and settled down in Scandinavia. This hypothesis is based on the data obtained during the excavations of the Russian-Norwegian archaeological expedition under the leadership of T. Heyerdahl at the town Azov, the Rostov-on-Don region, Russia, in 2001. "

http://public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl46.htm

Fake bullshit but some information is correct(the slavic langauges have a scythian superstrate, the slavic people have a big ammount of sarmatian-scythian genetic marker)


Edited by dan_smith - 02-Apr-2009 at 11:42
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2009 at 17:36

It was interesting for me when I found some similarites between Babylonian Aloros and Scandinavian Ollerus.

Because the names are similar? Sad to spoil the fun, but his name was Ullr. The Latin-writing people added -us to make it sound Latin and scholarly.
This hypothesis is based on the data obtained during the excavations of the Russian-Norwegian archaeological expedition under the leadership of T. Heyerdahl at the town Azov, the Rostov-on-Don region, Russia, in 2001. "

Which is total bull. His hypothesis comes from too literal reading of Snorri, nothing else. The diggings, which were very much reported about about here, showed nothing that could support the hypothesis. Thor Heyerdahl had his qualities, but he had too many hyperdiffusionist conspiracy theories to be taken seriously as an historian.


---
I can't even bother responding to the rest.
I find the whole idea ridiculous. I'd like to see an explanation how an invading people manage to fool the locals that they are gods. How stupid wouldn't they have to be? The attempt to link Quetzalcoatl to some Viking on a tourist trip in the Caribbean is equally ludicrous, insulting and outright stupid.

I couldn't find any website which talks about it but there are several website

May I suggest reading books written by historians (modern ones) instead of wikipedia and other websites written by teenage conspiracy nutters?



Edited by Styrbiorn - 02-Apr-2009 at 17:44
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2009 at 20:59
Originally posted by dan_smith

Odin name has a scythian origin so the connection is nothing else than the scythian religion
TEN=god   Herodotos wrote that the scythian river god of the Dnyeper named borysthenes(isten=god, ten=god, tenger=sea, tengri=god).

The root of the word odin is this ten with an 'o' phoneme which indicate that this god is an old, elder,  ruler figure.
The hungarian word isten has a same meaning. Is, ush, os=ancestor, elder+ten=ISTEN




"T. Heyerdahl and P. Lillieström (2001) believe that the Scandinavian god Odin was indeed a Proto-Slavonic king who lived near the Sea of Azov (now it is the Rostov-on-Don region, Russia) in 100 - 200 A.D. Then this king was forced out by the Romans from the area of the Don river and settled down in Scandinavia. This hypothesis is based on the data obtained during the excavations of the Russian-Norwegian archaeological expedition under the leadership of T. Heyerdahl at the town Azov, the Rostov-on-Don region, Russia, in 2001. "

http://public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl46.htm

Fake bullshit but some information is correct(the slavic langauges have a scythian superstrate, the slavic people have a big ammount of sarmatian-scythian genetic marker)
Good post! Smile Of course the word "tengri" for God sounds Turkish, not Iranian. The very Iranian word for "God" is "Goda" (Modern Persian "Khoda"). Anyway Scythian connection is a really good and logical mention.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2009 at 21:29
I think the word tengri is originated from the scythian langauge to the proto-turkic.
The scythians maybe borrowed this word from the hattic-hittite(istan, istanu=sun god)
The older sekler-hungarian runic scriptures use the form Estan, Ustan, Usten.
Maybe the sumerian dingir(hurrian or mitannian connection, they used this sumerian word) is the origin.


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  Quote Boreasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 03:14
 
The late Thor Heyerdahl was an eminent Norwegian anthropologist whose researches into the spread of early human cultures led him to undertake several historically accurate re-enacted voyages aboard the types of vessels current among the ancient mariners whom he was studying. Through decades of study, diffusionist anthropologists such as he had noted many shared cultural traits common to the ancient Egyptians and the New World peoples. To ascertain the possibility that cultural contacts had existed in the second millennium BC, he and a small crew undertook two expeditions in 1969 from Morocco to the West Indies aboard papyrus reed vessels (Ra I, Ra II) reconstructed according to Egyptian details dating back over three millennia. These voyages demonstrated both the inherent seaworthiness of reed bundle vessels and the feasibility that such vessels could indeed have successfully made such journeys millennia ago from West Africa to the Caribbean and beyond by following ocean currents. This reader has also reviewed Heyerdahl's account of these voyages, entitled The Ra Expeditions.

In his researches, Heyerdahl, other anthropologists, and archaeologists had noted records of shared contacts among the ancient cultures of Sumeria, the Indus Valley, Dilmun, and Punt. In 1978, Heyerdahl and a crew of ten undertook a voyage of five months' duration from the Shatt-al-Arab in southern Iraq, formerly known as Mesopotamia, through the Arabian Gulf, the Gulf of Oman, and the Indian Ocean to Djibouti, this time aboard a larger vessel again built of berdi reeds reproducing the ancient Sumerian ma-gur ('god-ship') design. The Tigris Expedition is his fascinating account of that voyage.
Heyerdahl discusses the seeming spontaneous development of comparable highly developed civilizations around the year 3000 BC in geographically dispersed centres -
Egypt's Nile valley, the Indus valley, Crete, and Mesopotamia - as significant in light of the Mayan calendar's origin date of 3113 BC and Plato's account of the destruction of Atlantis. He notes that recent archaeological researches compel science to re-examine and refine the accepted wisdom of the origins of human civilization. This reader finds Heyerdahl's careful open-minded spirit of scientific inquiry and his willingness to consider new evidence in refining his theories refreshing.
 
 
 

In Search of the Gods

The Kon-Tiki trip was kid stuff. Now Thor Heyerdahl is off to find King Odin's legendary home
 
(Newsweek, August, 2001)
 
Scandinavian Ancestry
Tracing Roots to Azerbaijan

by Thor Heyerdahl
  
 
EXCERPTS:
 
The first time I came to Azerbaijan was in 1981. There weren't very many visitors from outside the Iron Curtain who came here back in those days. My invitation came from Azerbaijan's Academy of Sciences. I started thinking about why the Academy of Sciences in Azerbaijan would invite me and it dawned on me that I was in a very unique situation at the time because I was both a member of the New York Academy of Sciences and had received an Honorary Doctorate from the Soviet Academy of Sciences. I didn't believe in barriers between nations. I believed in people, not political parties.
 
I believe there was contact by ships along the rivers and oceans long before civilization began. Earlier this century, nobody believed that people could navigate with the kinds of vessels that men were using 5,000 years ago. So I was fighting with scientists from all over the world - on both sides of the Iron Curtain - for my theory of ocean migration. I spent most of my time answering attacks in scientific publications. I had friends in Russia who sent me translations of these attacks. I answered back and my defense was published in Russian. Of course, it took quite a bit of time...

---

Scientists at that time insisted that no American Indian could have left America before Columbus, and no people could have reached America before Columbus except via the Bering Straits in the Arctic. This is where I learned how important it is for scientists to collaborate across different branches of science. I had my university training in biology, geography and physical anthropology. I had biological proof that someone must have brought certain plants from South America to Polynesia - for instance, the sweet potato, which only grew in South America. It could not have drifted alone across the ocean without the help of man...
 
---
 
Visiting Azerbaijan
And so, after those three expeditions on three different oceans, I was invited to visit Azerbaijan. I came here because I had established good contacts with scientists in this country, and I had learned that you had something quite sensational at Gobustan. I came to Azerbaijan as a guest of the Academy of Sciences in Azerbaijan to see the petroglyphs in Gobustan...

On my first visit, I came to study the reed ships that are similar to the boats of the ancient Mediterranean. But on my second visit, I learned that the people in Azerbaijan call themselves Azeri. I remembered from my school days that we have legends in Norway woven into Norwegian history in such an intricate way that we don't know where history starts and mythology ends. But the documented history of Norway dates back more than 800 years. Traditions about the original homeland of our ancestors were recorded in the 8th century in Ireland and say that we are descendants of the land of the Aser...
 
Early Scandinavian History

We learn of the line of royal families in Denmark, Sweden and Norway. But we didn't take these stories about our beginnings seriously because they were so ancient. We thought it was just imagination, just mythology. The actual years for the lineage of historic kings began around the year 800 AD. So we learned all the kings in the 1,000 years that followed and did not interest ourselves in earlier names.

But I remember from my childhood that the mythology started with the god named Odin. From Odin it took 31 generations to reach the first historic king. The record of Odin says that he came to Northern Europe from the land of Aser. I started reading these pages again and saw that this was not mythology at all, but actual history and geography.

Snorre, who recorded these stories, started by describing Europe, Asia and Africa, all with their correct names, Gibraltar and the Mediterranean Sea with their old Norse names, the Black Sea with the names we use today again, and the river Don with its old Greek name, Tanais. So, I realized that this has nothing to do with the gods who lived with the Thunder god Thor among the clouds.

Snorre said that the homeland of the Asers was east of the Black Sea. He said this was the land that chief Odin had, a big country. He gave the exact description: it was east of the Black Sea, south of a large mountain range on the border between Europe and Asia, and extended southward towards the land of the Turks. This had nothing to do with mythology, it was on this planet, on Earth.

Then came the most significant point. Snorre says: "At that time when Odin lived, the Romans were conquering far and wide in the region. When Odin learned that they were coming towards the land of Asers, he decided that it was best for him to take his priests, chiefs and some of his people and move to the Northern part of Europe."

The Romans are human beings, they are from this planet, they are not mythical figures. Then I remember that when I came to Gobustan, I had seen a stone slab with Roman inscriptions. I contacted the Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan. I was taken to the place, and I got the exact wording of the inscription.

There's a very logical way of figuring out when this was written. It had to be written after the year 84 AD and before the year 97 AD. If this inscription matched Snorre's record, it would mean that Odin left for Scandinavia during the second half of the 1st century AD. Then I counted the members of the generations of kings, every king up to the grandfather of the king that united Norway into one kingdom, because such information is available - around 830 AD.

In anthropology we reckon 25 years per generation for ruling kings. In modern times, a generation may extend up to 30 years, but on average the length of a generation in early reigns is 25 years. When you multiply 31 generations by 25 years, you come exactly back to the second half of the 1st century AD. So there is proof that these inscriptions carved by the Romans in stone coincide with the written history written almost 1,800 years ago in Iceland.

We all know that the Northern people are called Caucasian. Here is where history, archeology, geography and anthropology come together...
 
Blond-Haired Mummies
In the meantime we have contacts with the Academies of Sciences in 11 nations. We do not want to leave anything out. The most surprising discovery was when we contacted Communist China. They had discovered blond-haired mummies in the Karim Desert deep inside China, so perfectly preserved in the cold climate and salty earth that you could see the color of the skin and hair. The Chinese archeologists were surprised because these mummies were not Mongoloids at all; they suspected instead that they were Vikings.

But it didn't make sense to me that Vikings should be deep inside the deserts of China. When the Chinese archeologists conducted radio-carbon dating, they determined that the mummies were of Nordic type dating from 1,800 to 1,500 years BC. But the Viking period started around 800 AD. It then became obvious that these mummies were not Vikings who had come to China. Here was a missing link. And again the Caucasus enters into the picture as a mutual migratory center.

But this is not the end of the story. These mummies were dressed in cloth that had been woven, and the colors and the woven pattern were of a very specific type. The Chinese themselves studied the mummies and then invited American experts to study the clothing who determined that the weave and coloring were typical of the Celts of Ireland. But this made no sense at all. Then we contacted Ireland to get their sagas, and their written saga says that their ancestors were Scythians. So, again, their roots come back here to the Caucasus...
 
Read the entire article:


Edited by Boreasi - 03-Apr-2009 at 03:29
Be good or be gone.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 11:14

That is really interesting, lets compare some words:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berg,_%C3%98stfold

Berg is a former municipality in Østfold county, Norway.

The parish of Berg was established as a municipality January 1, 1838 (see formannskapsdistrikt). The rural municipality was (together with Idd) merged with the city of Halden January 1, 1967.

There two words "Berg" and "Halden", I had talked about "Burg/Berg":
 
 
Proto-IE: *bhurgh- ?

Meaning: watch-tower

Armenian: burgn `Turm'

Germanic: *burg- c., *burg-ia- n.

Russ. meaning: сторожевая башня etc.

Comments: A Wanderwort: cf. Arm burgn `toren', Aram burgin, burgon, Arab burǯ `kleine festing' (all probably from Hurro-Urartian and Caucasian). Greek pǘrgos is a loanword, as it show phonetics.
 
So this word which can be found just in some Indo-European languages, has in all probability a Hurro-Urartian origin from a region between Caspian and Black seas, and you know about Haldi, the chief god of Hurru-Urartians: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/252282/Haldi
 

Haldi

 ancient god

the national god of the ancient kingdom of Urartu, which ruled the plateau around Lake Van, now eastern Turkey, from about 900 to about 600 bc.

But the intersting thing is about the word "Halden" (Haldian) in the Behistun inscription of Darius the Great:
 
Darius the King says: While I was in Persia and Media, again a second time the Babylonians became rebellious from me. One man named Arkha, an Armenian, of Haldian descendant, he rose up in Babylon. A district named Dubala from there he thus lied to the people: "I am Nebuchadrezzar the son of Nabonidus." Thereupon the Babylonian people became rebellious from me, (and) went over to that Arkha. He seized Babylon; he became king in Babylon.
 
Armenians have always called themselves "Hay" and their land "Hayastan": http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Asia/Armenia/_Texts/KURARM/8*.html
 
Origin of the name "Hay"

The etymology of the word Hay still remains a controversial problem. Some authorities derive it from Pet, of an Indo-European language root, meaning ruler. It is said that the Armens who invaded Armenia were called by the subjugated natives Pet. Strange as it may seem, comparative philology has certain formulae of linguistic evolution which make it possible for Pet to become in the course of ages, Hay. For the word peter or pater (father) the Armenian has hayr (pronounced hire), while the word for mother is mayr (pronounced mire).

But other scholars find the origin of Hay in Khald or Hald, the name of the national god Khaldis, worshipped by the early inhabitants of Armenia. Kh here is pronounced like the guttural Χ of the Greek alphabet or the German ch. The ancient Urartean Empire, of which the city of Van was the capital, is known to some scholars also as the Vannic, but more generally as the Khaldean or Haldian empire. By a process of phonetic evolution, Khald becomes Khayd, and then sloughing off the final d, we have Khay. In fact, places still in existence around the Lake of Van were, before the Armenian deportation in the First World-War, called Khaik or Khek, meaning Armenians. In many districts, villages spoke of themselves as Khay, and still thought of the country as Khayastan.

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 11:34
Is it possible that Odin comes from "Haldin/Khaldean (Chaldean)"?
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 11:35

There two words "Berg" and "Halden", I had talked about "Burg/Berg":


Berg is indeed related to burg. They both come from an old IE word meaning rock, cliff, or mountain - they do exist or existed in many IE languages (Armenian berj, Celtic bri, beinn). Hald, or rather hall, simply means slope. It's also an old IE word (ON hallr, OE heall, related to Latin collis, Lithuanian kalnas) and both names are simply referring to the natural surroundings of the places.

Is it possible that Odin comes from "Haldin/Khaldean (Chaldean)"?

No. Odin is a younger form of Vodin or the German Wotan.



Edited by Styrbiorn - 03-Apr-2009 at 11:36
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 11:43
Urartian:  burg-ana, fortress

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2009 at 19:35
Whoa! Cyrus, when I mentioned Alp Arslan, and contrived to find in such a name something Danish or Scandanavian, etc., I did not know of the above conversations! Arslan might well be but version of Arsland?
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS315US315&q=Arsland

Which seems to be a somewhat common name in Norway at least. I would suggest that you also look at this site; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aslan_(disambiguation) Where you will see the names Kilij, then compare it to this; http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kjetil-%C3%A5rsland/9/409/994   Do you think there might be some connection of Norwegian Kjetil and Turkish Kilij? Just some fun with names, and I even used that evil Wikipedia! Laugh! It just slays me when I see egotistical people like your friend above ridicule the site! I would suggest that on the whole, Wikipedia, if the site has not be recently edited to death, by people like me, gives a very accurate picture of the consensual past of our world.
Stybiorn, while probably very smart does not play well with others! chuckle!

In regards to at least some of the above conversations, I would speak or write for a while about the area around Lake Van, which was mentioned above. But, before that, what do you know about the two salt water lakes in the Eastern portion of Turkey? Without wasting time, they are, I understand, inigmas to science, since they occur a great deal above sea level, etc.
But back to Van and vicinity, I consider the so called Hittite (Hattite it seems would be more correct, as would Othman rather than Ottman, etc.) empire is merely a created empire designed to solve other historical problems. If you really read about its so called discovery you might well come to the same conclusion?
And further more, I wonder if it is not but a figmented (as well as fragmented)image of the later / newer and also strange areas of Asia Minor, which have been variously called Phrygia (Frigia?), Lydia,and Galatia, etc. Phrygia is really in my cross hairs, since the famous Phrygian Hat or Cap, seems to have existed as a favorite of numerous people across Europe for over 1000 years, its most lasting placement was upon the head of Lady Liberty during the French revolution!!

But enough of my speculation for now, it is enough for me to know that there are others on this site that love "word play" (Etymology sometimes) besides myself. chuckle

Oh, by the way, maybe there is only one salt lake? http://www.allaboutturkey.com/tuzlake.htm

Highest regards,



Edited by opuslola - 01-Oct-2009 at 19:38
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2009 at 01:16
Yes, I love "word play", that is really a good game! Wink But you should find somethings more than these simple similarities, of course about Scandinavia and Iran, the similarities of the place names are so huge that I have to say it itself proves something, yesterday about this thread: Badab Surt Lake in Orost, a Natural Wonder, I wanted to find more info about Orust (اروست) in Iran but that seems to be just in Sweden!
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2010 at 20:14
Cyrus, it is a lot more than a "game" to me! I will even state, that to a lot of the so called "ancients" it was the "Ultimate Game!" Much as in the regard that some of these "ancients" gave to the game of "Chess" or maybe one of its deriveratives?, or originals?

But, as this post of mine is a response to the title of this thread / title, I.e., "From Babylon to Scandinavia!"

You, at least, are left to at least one or two alternatives! That is, just what "Babylon" can you be disussing? You must note that there exists more than one alternative to this topic?

Did, you know that there suposedly existed a "Babylon" in Egypt? It was, reportedly a Roman city?, for what ever that means?

But, of course, we might well consider that almost any great "port city" might well be considered to be a "City of Bable / Babel", to anyone who visited or passed through it?

If the above since is taken, then we might well consider that Rome, or Carthage, or Byzantium / Constantinople, or Caesari, or Tyre, or Ravenna, or Portus, etc., might well have been described by more than one sources as "the City of Bable/Bablel?"

Regards,


Edited by opuslola - 19-Jan-2010 at 20:16
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2010 at 05:34
opuslola, you seems to be really a religious man, it's not bad at all but I myself don't believe in what is said about "Tower of Babel" and confusion of languages, of course it is possible that you didn't mean it.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2010 at 06:57
No Cyrus, I place no faith in the Biblical account, I rather think that this story is merely a response of one or more people from a quiet backwater town, who are suddenly thrust into a busy trading centre, where a multitude of languages are being spoken.

My main point is that the word "babble" http://www.answers.com/topic/babbling "[Middle English babelen.]" Is most likely the origin of the name given to a city or city state that we call Babylon! And also the source of the word "Babel" to describe the confusion of language, etc.!

I merely meant to bring to your attention that historically there was another place, alongside of a river that was reportedly known as "Babylon", and it was located supposedly in or around Memphis, Heliopolis or On!, in Egypt.

Of course the very mention of "Heliopolis" can also create problems, please see; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliopolis


"Héliopolis, a town in France situated on the Île du Levant"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Ele_du_Levant

Thus, it seems that France has an island called "Levant", which can either mean "East" or "Holy Land?" Please note that 90% is "off limits" to tourists, explorers, etc. But, it seems, some part of this island is called Heliopolis! But, that might well just be a joking reference to the nude part of the island? Laugh! I.e. "Sun Worship!" Note the community of Heliopolis was reportedly founded in 1932!

But, we also have to notice that this island is located very near to the port city of Toulon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toulon Where we read;
"In the second century BC the residents of Massalia (present-day Marseille) called upon the Romans to help them pacify the region. The Romans defeated the Ligurians and began to start their own colonies along the coast. A Roman settlement was founded at the present location of Toulon, with the name Telo Martius - Telo, either for the goddess of springs or from the Latin tol, the base of the hill - and Martius, for the god of war. Telo Martius became one of the two principal Roman dye manufacturing centers, producing the purple color used in imperial robes, made from the local sea snail called murex, and from the acorns of the oak trees."

So, this area, this port city, near "the Levant!", like Tyre!, produced the purple dye taken from the murex snail! And, in addition, from the above site;
"1543: Francis I invites the fleet of Ottoman Admiral Barbarossa to Toulon as part of the Franco-Ottoman alliance. The residents are forced to leave, and the Ottoman sailors occupy the town for the winter (see Siege of Nice#The Turks in Toulon)." What a strange event! And this small account does little to explain what really happened at this time. There exists a good deal of other information on the inter-net!

But, this city, located in Provence, already had suffered the religious crusade against the Cathars, and it spoke a version of a Romantic language called "Occitain!", which is most similar to "Catalan!" today.

So, certainly, at one time, Toulon was a place where a "babble" of voices could be heard?

If you are familar with the works of Baigent, Leigh and Lincoln, in their book "Holy Blood Holy Grail", then you might enjoy this remark from the above site?
"^ A legend which states that a certain Cleon accompanied St. Lazarus to Gaul and was the founder of the Church of Toulon, is based on a fourteenth century forgery that was ascribed to a sixth-century bishop named Didier."

For more understanding perhaps you will want to read this?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Nice#The_Turks_in_Toulon

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 20-Jan-2010 at 07:00
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2010 at 08:27
English Babble can be related to Persian Bulbul which means "chatty, songbird" or Greek Barbarous for non-Greek-speaking people, anyway it is possible that the word Babel also relates to these words.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jan-2010 at 10:13
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

English Babble can be related to Persian Bulbul which means "chatty, songbird" or Greek Barbarous for non-Greek-speaking people, anyway it is possible that the word Babel also relates to these words.


Of course your words above are also most likely to be the result of the same idea and base!

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2010 at 19:52
Could there be any connection between "Babbleon" and "Babylon?", is "babble" the same as "babel?"

Do any of you know about the Roman "Babylon?" in Egypt?

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  Quote Hrodvitnir9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2010 at 06:39
There has never been any credible evidence to support the idea Odin is based off of a real person. This theory was first mentioned in the 11th century by Saxo Grammaticus who was admittedly trying to discredit Norse Paganism. The oldest form of the name Odin is Wodanaz which is Proto-Germanic and has nothing to do with Scythian language or religion. The name Odin is the modern Anglicized version of the Old Norse name Odinn. Its laughable to suggest the name Odin has any relation to a Babylonian name.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2010 at 14:20
If one looks at anything related to the distant past, then you should recognize that, as you said; "There has never been any credible evidence to support the idea (that)" Odin, or Caesar, or Jesus, etc., "is based off of a real person."

We must remember that we only ascertain certain personages of the past due to a couple of things. First the name or some semblence of the name is found cut into rock at some place! Second, that original sources, now gone, are mentioned by later sources where certain name resemblance is or was seen, but the originals of their work is also now gone,etc.!

Third, most every thing we think of as fact is in reality only supposition! But, all of this supposition has been covered in academic clay and made into a full figured example of ancient personages!

But, my above examples are rough and hardly understandable even to me!

So, I shall try again later!

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