It was interesting for me when I found some similarites between Babylonian Aloros and Scandinavian Ollerus.

http://xenohistorian.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/the-babylonian-connection-redone/

“Aloros, a Chaldean from Babylon, was the first king of the land and he reigned for ten Saroi. They say that he spread the story about himself that God appointed him shepherd of the people.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ullr

"When Odin was exiled, Ollerus was chosen to take his place. Ollerus ruled under the name Odin for ten years until the true Odin was called back, whereupon Ollerus retired to Sweden where he was slain by Danes."

I couldn't find any website which talks about it but there are several websites (especially religious ones) which talk about "The Identity of the Scandinavian Odin and Adon of Babylon":

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/2bab048.htm

1. Nimrod, or Adon, or Adonis, of Babylon, was the great war-god. Odin, as is well known, was the same.
2. Nimrod, in the character of Bacchus, was regarded as the god of wine; Odin is represented as taking no food but wine. For thus we read in the Edda: "As to himself he [Odin] stands in no need of food; wine is to him instead of every other aliment, according to what is said in these verses: The illustrious father of armies, with his own hand, fattens his two wolves; but the victorious Odin takes no other nourishment to himself than what arises from the unintermitted quaffing of wine" (MALLET, 20th Fable, vol. ii. p. 106).
3. The name of one of Odin's sons indicates the meaning of Odin's own name. Balder, for whose death such lamentations were made, seems evidently just the Chaldee form of Baal-zer, "The seed of Baal;" for the Hebrew z, as is well known, frequently, in the later Chaldee, becomes d. Now, Baal and Adon both alike signify "Lord"; and, therefore, if Balder be admitted to be the seed or son of Baal, that is as much as to say that he is the son of Adon; and, consequently, Adon and Odin must be the same. This, of course, puts Odin a step back; makes his son to be the object of lamentation and not himself; but the same was the case also in Egypt; for there Horus the child was sometimes represented as torn in pieces, as Osiris had been. Clemens Alexandrinus says (Cohortatio, vol. i. p. 30), "they lament an infants torn in pieces by the Titans." The lamentations for Balder are very plainly the counterpart of the lamentations for Adonis; and, of course, if Balder was, as the lamentations prove him to have been, the favourite form of the Scandinavian Messiah, he was Adon, or "Lord," as well as his father.
4. Then, lastly, the name of the other sons of Odin, the mighty and warlike Thor, strengthens all the foregoing conclusions. Ninyas, the son of Ninus or Nimrod, on his father's death, when idolatry rose again, was, of course, from the nature of the mystic system, set up as Adon, "the Lord." Now, as Odin had a son called Thor, so the second Assyrian Adon had a son called Thouros (Cedrenus, vol. i. p. 29). The name Thouros seems just to be another form of Zoro, or Doro, "the seed;" for Photius tells us that among the Greeks Thoros signified "Seed" (Lexicon, pars i. p. 93). The D is often pronounced as Th,--Adon, in the pointed Hebrew, being pronounced Athon. 2bab048.htm

It was interesting for me when I found some similarites between Babylonian Aloros and Scandinavian Ollerus.

Because the names are similar? Sad to spoil the fun, but his name was Ullr. The Latin-writing people added -us to make it sound Latin and scholarly.

This hypothesis is based on the data obtained during the excavations of the Russian-Norwegian archaeological expedition under the leadership of T. Heyerdahl at the town Azov, the Rostov-on-Don region, Russia, in 2001. "

Which is total bull. His hypothesis comes from too literal reading of Snorri, nothing else. The diggings, which were very much reported about about here, showed nothing that could support the hypothesis. Thor Heyerdahl had his qualities, but he had too many hyperdiffusionist conspiracy theories to be taken seriously as an historian.


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I can't even bother responding to the rest.
I find the whole idea ridiculous. I'd like to see an explanation how an invading people manage to fool the locals that they are gods. How stupid wouldn't they have to be? The attempt to link Quetzalcoatl to some Viking on a tourist trip in the Caribbean is equally ludicrous, insulting and outright stupid.

I couldn't find any website which talks about it but there are several website

May I suggest reading books written by historians (modern ones) instead of wikipedia and other websites written by teenage conspiracy nutters?



Edited by Styrbiorn - 02-Apr-2009 at 17:44

I think the word tengri is originated from the scythian langauge to the proto-turkic.
The scythians maybe borrowed this word from the hattic-hittite(istan, istanu=sun god)
The older sekler-hungarian runic scriptures use the form Estan, Ustan, Usten.
Maybe the sumerian dingir(hurrian or mitannian connection, they used this sumerian word) is the origin.

That is really interesting, lets compare some words:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berg,_%C3%98stfold

Berg is a former municipality in Østfold county, Norway.

The parish of Berg was established as a municipality January 1, 1838 (see formannskapsdistrikt). The rural municipality was (together with Idd) merged with the city of Halden January 1, 1967.

There two words "Berg" and "Halden", I had talked about "Burg/Berg":

Berg is indeed related to burg. They both come from an old IE word meaning rock, cliff, or mountain - they do exist or existed in many IE languages (Armenian berj, Celtic bri, beinn). Hald, or rather hall, simply means slope. It's also an old IE word (ON hallr, OE heall, related to Latin collis, Lithuanian kalnas) and both names are simply referring to the natural surroundings of the places.

Is it possible that Odin comes from "Haldin/Khaldean (Chaldean)"?

No. Odin is a younger form of Vodin or the German Wotan.



Edited by Styrbiorn - 03-Apr-2009 at 11:36

Whoa! Cyrus, when I mentioned Alp Arslan, and contrived to find in such a name something Danish or Scandanavian, etc., I did not know of the above conversations! Arslan might well be but version of Arsland?
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS315US315&q=Arsland

Which seems to be a somewhat common name in Norway at least. I would suggest that you also look at this site; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aslan_(disambiguation) Where you will see the names Kilij, then compare it to this; http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kjetil-%C3%A5rsland/9/409/994   Do you think there might be some connection of Norwegian Kjetil and Turkish Kilij? Just some fun with names, and I even used that evil Wikipedia! Laugh! It just slays me when I see egotistical people like your friend above ridicule the site! I would suggest that on the whole, Wikipedia, if the site has not be recently edited to death, by people like me, gives a very accurate picture of the consensual past of our world.
Stybiorn, while probably very smart does not play well with others! chuckle!

In regards to at least some of the above conversations, I would speak or write for a while about the area around Lake Van, which was mentioned above. But, before that, what do you know about the two salt water lakes in the Eastern portion of Turkey? Without wasting time, they are, I understand, inigmas to science, since they occur a great deal above sea level, etc.
But back to Van and vicinity, I consider the so called Hittite (Hattite it seems would be more correct, as would Othman rather than Ottman, etc.) empire is merely a created empire designed to solve other historical problems. If you really read about its so called discovery you might well come to the same conclusion?
And further more, I wonder if it is not but a figmented (as well as fragmented)image of the later / newer and also strange areas of Asia Minor, which have been variously called Phrygia (Frigia?), Lydia,and Galatia, etc. Phrygia is really in my cross hairs, since the famous Phrygian Hat or Cap, seems to have existed as a favorite of numerous people across Europe for over 1000 years, its most lasting placement was upon the head of Lady Liberty during the French revolution!!

But enough of my speculation for now, it is enough for me to know that there are others on this site that love "word play" (Etymology sometimes) besides myself. chuckle

Oh, by the way, maybe there is only one salt lake? http://www.allaboutturkey.com/tuzlake.htm

Highest regards,



Edited by opuslola - 01-Oct-2009 at 19:38

Cyrus, it is a lot more than a "game" to me! I will even state, that to a lot of the so called "ancients" it was the "Ultimate Game!" Much as in the regard that some of these "ancients" gave to the game of "Chess" or maybe one of its deriveratives?, or originals?

But, as this post of mine is a response to the title of this thread / title, I.e., "From Babylon to Scandinavia!"

You, at least, are left to at least one or two alternatives! That is, just what "Babylon" can you be disussing? You must note that there exists more than one alternative to this topic?

Did, you know that there suposedly existed a "Babylon" in Egypt? It was, reportedly a Roman city?, for what ever that means?

But, of course, we might well consider that almost any great "port city" might well be considered to be a "City of Bable / Babel", to anyone who visited or passed through it?

If the above since is taken, then we might well consider that Rome, or Carthage, or Byzantium / Constantinople, or Caesari, or Tyre, or Ravenna, or Portus, etc., might well have been described by more than one sources as "the City of Bable/Bablel?"

Regards,


Edited by opuslola - 19-Jan-2010 at 20:16

No Cyrus, I place no faith in the Biblical account, I rather think that this story is merely a response of one or more people from a quiet backwater town, who are suddenly thrust into a busy trading centre, where a multitude of languages are being spoken.

My main point is that the word "babble" http://www.answers.com/topic/babbling "[Middle English babelen.]" Is most likely the origin of the name given to a city or city state that we call Babylon! And also the source of the word "Babel" to describe the confusion of language, etc.!

I merely meant to bring to your attention that historically there was another place, alongside of a river that was reportedly known as "Babylon", and it was located supposedly in or around Memphis, Heliopolis or On!, in Egypt.

Of course the very mention of "Heliopolis" can also create problems, please see; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliopolis


"Héliopolis, a town in France situated on the Île du Levant"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Ele_du_Levant

Thus, it seems that France has an island called "Levant", which can either mean "East" or "Holy Land?" Please note that 90% is "off limits" to tourists, explorers, etc. But, it seems, some part of this island is called Heliopolis! But, that might well just be a joking reference to the nude part of the island? Laugh! I.e. "Sun Worship!" Note the community of Heliopolis was reportedly founded in 1932!

But, we also have to notice that this island is located very near to the port city of Toulon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toulon Where we read;
"In the second century BC the residents of Massalia (present-day Marseille) called upon the Romans to help them pacify the region. The Romans defeated the Ligurians and began to start their own colonies along the coast. A Roman settlement was founded at the present location of Toulon, with the name Telo Martius - Telo, either for the goddess of springs or from the Latin tol, the base of the hill - and Martius, for the god of war. Telo Martius became one of the two principal Roman dye manufacturing centers, producing the purple color used in imperial robes, made from the local sea snail called murex, and from the acorns of the oak trees."

So, this area, this port city, near "the Levant!", like Tyre!, produced the purple dye taken from the murex snail! And, in addition, from the above site;
"1543: Francis I invites the fleet of Ottoman Admiral Barbarossa to Toulon as part of the Franco-Ottoman alliance. The residents are forced to leave, and the Ottoman sailors occupy the town for the winter (see Siege of Nice#The Turks in Toulon)." What a strange event! And this small account does little to explain what really happened at this time. There exists a good deal of other information on the inter-net!

But, this city, located in Provence, already had suffered the religious crusade against the Cathars, and it spoke a version of a Romantic language called "Occitain!", which is most similar to "Catalan!" today.

So, certainly, at one time, Toulon was a place where a "babble" of voices could be heard?

If you are familar with the works of Baigent, Leigh and Lincoln, in their book "Holy Blood Holy Grail", then you might enjoy this remark from the above site?
"^ A legend which states that a certain Cleon accompanied St. Lazarus to Gaul and was the founder of the Church of Toulon, is based on a fourteenth century forgery that was ascribed to a sixth-century bishop named Didier."

For more understanding perhaps you will want to read this?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Nice#The_Turks_in_Toulon

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 20-Jan-2010 at 07:00

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri English Babble can be related to Persian Bulbul which means "chatty, songbird" or Greek Barbarous for non-Greek-speaking people, anyway it is possible that the word Babel also relates to these words.

Of course your words above are also most likely to be the result of the same idea and base!

Regards,

There has never been any credible evidence to support the idea Odin is based off of a real person. This theory was first mentioned in the 11th century by Saxo Grammaticus who was admittedly trying to discredit Norse Paganism. The oldest form of the name Odin is Wodanaz which is Proto-Germanic and has nothing to do with Scythian language or religion. The name Odin is the modern Anglicized version of the Old Norse name Odinn. Its laughable to suggest the name Odin has any relation to a Babylonian name.