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Rommel overated?

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  Quote Subotei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rommel overated?
    Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 04:12

rommel famous as being the best german general of ww2(most peoples opinion),but is this cos he won a few battles against the british and because we grow up in  a western society so we romantizised him as a great general for beating us.

rommel was commander of africa corps and not even a german army.

wat about Manstein who came up with the plan for attacking france,captured/killed millions of russians.and never lost a battle exept for when hitler ordered him against mansteins wishes to attack at kursk.

 

wat about guderian who invented blitzkreig

im sure theres more good german generals .

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 07:24

I think Manstein and Guderian were the gratset german generals.This men were able to devise briliant plans and execute them flawlessly.There is also Gerd von Runstedt, regarded by many contemporaries as the best german general(this was before the war, though).

As fo Rommel, his greatest asset was his speed of thinking.His agressivenesss usually threw the enemy off balance, and Rommel was there to speculate any mistake.When the enemy made no mistake, Rommel's military value was greatly diminished.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 11:38

Actualy Rommel commanded both an army (Panzerarmee Afrika) and army groups (Armeegruppe B in Italy and Armeegruppe B in France).

And yes Rommel is overrated, he clearly did not posses the training and skill necessary for handling large formations (above corps). His neglect of such matters as logistics doomed the Axis forces in Africa since he advance to the El Alamein line without enough fuel to be able to withdraw. 

 



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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 14:55

If anything Rommel is UNDERratted!  The only flaw he had was trusting the German and Italian high command.  He was a brilliant field marshal in defense and offense.  Had it not been for the lack of supplies in Africa he would have wiped the Brits out!

His agressiveness was a major asset and his best characteristic. 

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  Quote Riain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 15:14
Rommel saw the possibilities available in Africa which others didn't. He knew that if he captured the Suez canal and the mid east Russia would be vulnerable to attack from the south, in the caucus oilfields. But he didn't have the means and yet tried the impossible, so he looses pionts there.
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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 16:08
It's not his fault he didn't have the neccessary supplies.
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  Quote white dragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 16:25
Originally posted by Thegeneral

It's not his fault he didn't have the neccessary supplies.


true but it is his fault that he tried to do something without enough supplies
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  Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 17:54
I believe Rommel is a bit overrated.

 He was a great Field Marshall, but he was not the best German General/Field Marshal in my opinion. Von Manstein was.

Rommel was certailny plagued by the fact that he had to deal with hitler who was not a good war-time commander at all.

Rommel gave the Allies alot of resistance, but he always ended up losing most of the time. He lost North Africa and lost Again drugin D-Day (though this is a good example of why Hitler was an idiot)

a tough and effective commander? Yes, he was. But he is overrated in terms of how he is seen today.

He also gets alot of respect for being a fair and decent man. he was not a Nazi and not a murderer. He was merely a soldier fighting for his country, and he was even involved int he plot to assassinate Hitler.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 05:12

Originally posted by Illuminati

 
He also gets alot of respect for being a fair and decent man. he was not a Nazi and not a murderer. He was merely a soldier fighting for his country, and he was even involved int he plot to assassinate Hitler.

Most german generals were not nazi, and despised Hitler and his politics,but they were so into the Prussian military tradition that obeying the orders always came first for them, no matter wwhere these orders cam from.

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  Quote Riain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 05:47
I don't know if there were any Generals better qualified to face the d day landings than Rommel. By '44 he was very experienced facing western offensives with their unlimited air strategies, naval components and vast resources.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 10:11

Indeed, Rommel was quite able to face the allies on D-day, but:

1. He was on leave in Germany

2. Hitler had assumed personal control of all the armoured divisions in the west therefore Rommel was mostly commanding an army of infantry, who were either recruits either too old or crippled to be any good.

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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 17:33
Rommel knew the war was lost.  In fact he was trying to contact Churchill and Eisonhower but he was attacked and hospitalized.  then was murdered for his "part" in the Stuafenberg attack.  A very sad ending to one of the greatest German generals in the 20th century!
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 19:48
Originally posted by Thegeneral

If anything Rommel is UNDERratted!  The only flaw he had was trusting the German and Italian high command.  He was a brilliant field marshal in defense and offense.  Had it not been for the lack of supplies in Africa he would have wiped the Brits out!

His agressiveness was a major asset and his best characteristic. 

 

Q. Why was he short of supplies?

A. Because the royal Navy and RAF kept on intercepting his supply ships from Malta, (and completely unchallenged) after 1942.

In early 1942 Malta was on it's last legs, the siege of Malta so intense that more bombs had been dropped on the tiny island than the whole UK in the entire war. The island was virtually devoid of planes and down to two weeks food and then due to successful air attacks both the Alexandria and Malta British fleets were put out of action.

Hitler was about to launch operation Hercules, the invasion of Malta with 4 air divisions specially assembled as well as ships, German troops, and aircraft.

Rommel instead asked Hitler to cancel the invasion and send the equipment to him in Tripoli. Kesselring the German commander in Italy disagreed and warned Hitler if they don't take Malta Germany will lose the Mediteranean. But Rommel used his Hitler's favourite general status and won, so he got the troops and Malta survived.

Shortly after the British repaired the Alexandria fleet, sent large numbers of Spitfires to Malta, and broke the siege of Malta with a huge convoy of supply and warships.

Rommel sabotaged his own supplies and against the advice of a better general.

 



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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 22:30

Rommel would have had the neccessary supplies had the Italian and German high command lived up to their numerous promises.  They promised Rommel more supplies and troops nearly everyday and he hardly ever got them. 

Lack of supplies was also do to the Italians incompitance on the battlefield.  The Italians were so out of date it wasn't even funny.  That and the Italians codes had been broken giving away all of their supply lines!

Rommel was a better general than Kesselring!  Kesselring was a defense strategist and had no right tellimg Rommel, a very powerful attacker, where and when to attack!

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  Quote Laelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 23:34
dude did you even read Paul's preceding post?
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  Quote TheOrcRemix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 23:42

Rommel was a good commander, but his secrets were exposed when Patton read his book....

It was hard for rommel to command his forces when he can only move at night, casue Germany lost most of their air force during the Battle Of britain.

If ur opponent knows what ur doing, how are you suppose to win?

 

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 23:47
Originally posted by Thegeneral

Rommel would have had the neccessary supplies had the Italian and German high command lived up to their numerous promises.  They promised Rommel more supplies and troops nearly everyday and he hardly ever got them. 

Lack of supplies was also do to the Italians incompitance on the battlefield.  The Italians were so out of date it wasn't even funny.  That and the Italians codes had been broken giving away all of their supply lines!

Rommel was a better general than Kesselring!  Kesselring was a defense strategist and had no right tellimg Rommel, a very powerful attacker, where and when to attack!

The reason Italian and German command didn't live up to their promises is because their ships were being sunk by subs, planes and ships operating from Malta. Hence the need to knock it out.

Italian incompetance on the battlefield has nothing to do with supplies, supplies come via sea.

Italian codes were broken, so were German and so were British naval signals, by the Italians not the Germans. So Axis knew equally what the British fleet was doing.

Kesselring didn't tell Rommel where and when to attack. He told Hitler to take Malta. He also told Goring to target the airfields in the battle of Britain, Goring didn't listen either. Kesselring was one of the first to realise the true significence and use of modern airpower. Hence he realised Rommel would lose if Malta wasn't taken, and it would be his downfall, he was right again in both instance.

Rommel blew it.

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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 08:43

Rommel did the very best he could with the little he had.  He could not have done more with such little he had.  The problem with the supplies was that the high command was not even sending the supplies.  It is not that they all got blwo up(some did) but that the command was not even sending them.  Mainly the Italians.  And as for the codes being broken, if I am not mistaken the British codes were not boken until much later in the war.  But I may be wrong on that!

The Italian incomitance was a major problem on the battelfied with supplies.  The Italians were not good fighters and not well equiped.  Thus they were taking up resources that could have been used to other causes!

Hesselring may have sen the power of an air force but Rommel saw the importance of the tank! 

Now this is my opinion;  Rommel was one of the best German Field Marshals during the war, no doubt about it.  He just had some trouble with the German command and Hitler.  If you know how Rommel died you'll see what "troubles" Hitler gave him!

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 09:07
Rommel certainly was one of the best German commanders during WWII. He had some very good and some very weak characteristics. For example, he was far too assertive and did not plan very much. Rommel immediately seized every opportunity that he got, which enabled him to repeat the European blitz in Africa. And this was undoubtedly a very good strategy for quick victories. But in the long run, he should have calculated his actions a lot more, as he overstretched his supply lines and did not leave the High Command any time to analyse further steps to be taken.
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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 13:07

Well, the eproblem with supplies could be giving to Rommel, but he really had no controll over his own supplies.  During the end of the African campaign(in the later years when the Afrika Korps began to fail) the German began their attack on Russia which even Rommel thought was a good idea.  And for a time it was; everything was going good.  Then Stalingrad; the supplies just stopped coming to Afica, and Rommel understood why but he said they should not have been fighting on 3 fronts. 

Overall he was a good filed marshal.  You said one of his weak chacteristics was his assertiveness and lack of planning.  Well, many take that to be one of his good qualities which is why he even got as far as he did in Africa with his very limited resources.  He actually was planning; planinng that he was to get more supplies.  A plan often seems good on paper, but when put into action if could easily fall apart.  Thus is what happened with Rommel's popularity with Hitler!

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