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Sarmata
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Topic: Most important dynasty in Europe? Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 01:19 |
aha thats what i thought he was saying...
If thats the case, CULTURALLY the Polis-Lithuanian state was more Polish then Lithuanian. under the union of Krewo Jagiello agreed to adopt the religion of Poland and to incorporate the lands of Lithuania to the Polish crown. During and after Wladyslaw Jagiello I would say it's safe to say that the Jagiellonian dynasty was Polish rather then Lithuanian. And don't get me wrong Im nott rying to discredit Lithuania, everyone knows that Poland could not have done all it had without Lithuania. Of course there is always the arguement wether or not Polish-Russian relations might have been better had Poland and Lithuania not united. Ah well, just "what-ifs".
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Mosquito
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Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 17:37 |
Originally posted by Sarmata
Originally posted by Svyturys
Yes Yes...Jagiellons "really" polish.... terible... |
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He probably meant that they were Lithuanians. Our friends from Lithuania often feel overshadowed by Poland because people tent to forget that it was Polish-Lithuanian joined state and that Lithuanians also had a lot to say about its policy. And Jagiellonians who were ruling it were dynasty from Lithuania not from Poland and thats probably why Svyturys was irrated.
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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Sarmata
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Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 17:20 |
Originally posted by Svyturys
Yes Yes...Jagiellons "really" polish.... terible... |
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RomiosArktos
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Posted: 21-Jan-2006 at 13:01 |
Hapsburgs left a great cultural haritage to the lands they ruled
Today Hungary,Austria(the core of the empire),Czech republic and many
other European states are heirs of a great cultural heritage.
And we should not forget that the empire of Carolus V was the most
powerful on earth at his time.A vast empire stretching from Latin
America to Europa and Phillipines.
That's why i voted the Hapsburgs!
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Svyturys
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Posted: 02-Jan-2006 at 17:10 |
Yes Yes...Jagiellons "really" polish.... terible...
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Every moment, like last, neither earth, nor sky don't calculate time. Left only one heart in scorched bosom. Throbing only drums again, calling us into battle.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 23-Jul-2005 at 15:21 |
I hope not, I am realy bored that European things.
Let them live in peace.
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rider
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Posted: 23-Jul-2005 at 15:20 |
Yeah, i believe it counts. Are there more than one provinces then? I just thought there was one.
And you had before the Peloponnesia and Macedonia so it should have counted, but my memory was not in it's glory then.
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Guests
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Posted: 23-Jul-2005 at 15:17 |
Sure rider, I just wondered why you have thought this way...
Ending this debate, BTW, we still have lands in Europe, nearly as large as Albania. Does it count?
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rider
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Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 12:24 |
I mean true Europeans as the ones who live in nowadays Europe, not counting the one province.
Can we stop this fight?? or battle? It jsut seems that any more I can't modify the Poll results.
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Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 12:13 |
How do you describe true European? Geographically, Ottomans had been more European than French and British for hundreds of years. Culturally, Ottomans were the real successors of the Romans, not the other Europeans. Ethnicity doesnt mean anything if you consider that as a reason of not including Ottomans, so Ottomans were as true Europeans as the others.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 21-Jul-2005 at 15:59 |
be calm guys, and yes ottomans are not European.
I didnt think this topic is just for European.
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rider
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Posted: 21-Jul-2005 at 15:54 |
I am facing two facts: the one you are trying to hit me with and the one that i didn't include them in the topic.
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Posted: 21-Jul-2005 at 13:19 |
Not only East Europeans, but all Protestants, catholics and Orthodox. Ottomans were the ones who shaped the European faith forever. The French and the Austuria-Germans were the ones whose destineys were highly related with the Ottoman existance in Europe. And dont forget that Ottomans once had larger lands than modern France in Europe.
Also lots of new things were introduced in Europe by Ottomans or their effects. Ex: lots of instruments, a couple of vaccines, coffee, Protestant expansion, Orthodox existance, geographical discoveries, and even Reinessance had Ottoman effect, for example the conquest of Konstantiniye and the eastern philosophies. You should face the facts...
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Murtaza
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Posted: 21-Jul-2005 at 06:03 |
I think polands had a lot contact with Turks.
But I dont think this tree "Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia" had contact.
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rider
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Posted: 21-Jul-2005 at 03:46 |
They are, I said East-Eaurope in what I include Lithuania, Estonia,
Latvia and Poland. I am sure I had a small mistake, as if I had said
Balticum then we have never had direct contact with Turks unless
Russian Emperors gathered their divisions from here.
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Murtaza
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Posted: 20-Jul-2005 at 14:05 |
Rider my friend
as a greek serb or romanian even polland If they remember ottomans or not? I am sure bulgarians and macedons will remember it also.Even they dont remember it nicely. As an albanian they will know it too.
as a Russian or macar.
arent this countries are also in the Europe?
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rider
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Posted: 20-Jul-2005 at 12:18 |
Why should EEurope remember Ottomans? Now, I am wondering.
And, I just ment it from Europe, Decebal.
Now, to continue, well, yes, not so much French, nor Spanish people at
that time here but wars, were mostly with French support to Sweden,
Russia and they two made the actual war here all the time from
1558-1721.. (the uncertain period)
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Murtaza
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Posted: 20-Jul-2005 at 10:28 |
rider
related to where you live, If you lived easter Europea, I am sure most of them remembers ottomans instead of france or Sweden dynasty.
If ottomans won vienna war, well. I dont think we would discuss most powerful dynasty.
I choose Habsburgs.
Edited by Murtaza
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Decebal
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Posted: 20-Jul-2005 at 10:08 |
What about the Qing in China or the Yamato in Japan? Or the Moguls in India? The Safavizs in Persia? They may not be European, but I'd say that they were more important than the Vasas of Poland or the Braganzas.
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What is history but a fable agreed upon?
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Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
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rider
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Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 14:47 |
But they ruled different... actually, yes, now when i start to think Bourbons of Spain would have been better but alas.. it has happened so that it is not them on the list.
But if Osmanoglu dynasty spanned thru 694 (i believe it was so, can't remember the correct starting date) years they merely did something important after battle of m_____ ((can't spell any names now)) in about 1550's. I agree if they would have won Vienna in the 17th's then they would be a major power afterwards aswell.
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