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Norse tech and the settlement of the Americas

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Norse tech and the settlement of the Americas
    Posted: 19-Nov-2008 at 23:12
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Sorry, it's nonsense. Invented by French and German Nordicists in the early 20th century. The author of the sites you mentioned should have checked their sources.
 
Nazis were another amazing myth creators, and they are still influential, I am afraid.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2008 at 23:34
Originally posted by Hukumari

2) in year 967, the Viking Ullman Jarl touched ground with Panuco, in the Gulf of Mexico. It is the second arrival, the "last arrival" of the white men for the Mayas.

There are no Mayas in the Pánuco region.
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  Quote Hukumari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 00:53
Originally posted by Mixcoatl

Originally posted by Hukumari

2) in year 967, the Viking Ullman Jarl touched ground with Panuco, in the Gulf of Mexico. It is the second arrival, the "last arrival" of the white men for the Mayas.

There are no Mayas in the Pánuco region.

Maybe there are not anymore.

This article is about the Huastec people, whose native language Wastek (Huastec) is a Mayan language. The Huastec inhabit a region of Mexico known as La Huasteca, and neighboring variants of the Nahuatl language are also known as La Huasteca Nahuatl, unrelated linguistically to Wastek.

The Huastec, also rendered as Huaxtec, Wastek and Huastecos, are an indigenous people of Mexico, historically based in the states of Hidalgo, Veracruz, San Luis Potosí and Tamaulipas concentrated along the route of the Pánuco River and along the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. The Huastec people call themselves Teenek, Etc…

Linguists have approximated that the precursor to the language of the Huastecs diverged from the Proto-Mayan language between 2200 and 1200 BCE. Etc…


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huastec_people

These affiliated tribes are, according to the investigations of Dr. Carl Hermann Berendt, the following:

1. The Maya proper, including the Lacandons.
2. The Chontals of Tabasco, on and near the coast west of the mouth of the Usumacinta.
3. The Tzendals, south of the Chontals.
4. The Zotzils, south of the Tzendals.
5. The Chaneabals, south of the Zotzils.
6. The Chols, on the upper Usumacinta.
7. The Chortis, near Copan.
8. The Kekchis, and
9. The Pocomchis, in Vera Paz.
10. The Pocomams.  
 11. The Mams.  
12. The Kiches.  
13. The Ixils. In or bordering on Guatemala.
14. The Cakchiquels.  
15. The Tzutuhils.  
16. The Huastecs, on the Panuco river and its tributaries, in Mexico.

http://historyhuntersinternational.org/index.php?page=231


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  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 06:37
Norse came to america, in a great extent, by accident, scholars stated the theory that people, especially those in Asia, came to America, are largely based on the academic studies of geographic aspect, such as movement of current and wind, in another words, not based on the sailing skill of these people,
leung
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 08:56
Could we please leave the Nazi nonsense? The whole episode is an invention. It was made up by Jacques Machieu, a French collaborator fighting for the SS. He further claimed "Ullman" founded Tiahuanaco, the Aztec and the Incan empires, and that he was known as not only Quetzalcoatl but also as Viracocha, Manco Capac and a bunch of other famous names. The only one who took it seriously was Miguel Serrano, a Chilean Nazi. This one also claimed Hitler was an avatar of Vishnu sent to earth to punish the Jews, and that the Aryans were alien gods who had forgotten their ancestry, while the rest of the humans were local creations. It's not even worth discussing, except from the angle that it's amazing some people are still reading their fantasies.


The Scandinavian heritage has already been enough disgraced by the racist ideas of foreigners, mainly German Nazis but apparently also of other nationalities. No need to proceed with it.


Edited by Styrbiorn - 20-Nov-2008 at 08:57
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 11:31
Originally posted by tommy

Norse came to america, in a great extent, by accident, scholars stated the theory that people, especially those in Asia, came to America, are largely based on the academic studies of geographic aspect, such as movement of current and wind, in another words, not based on the sailing skill of these people,
 
That's right. I also think it was an accident. I am afraid Norse have no idea they reached a new continent. I guess they believed Newfoundland was just an Island off shore Greenland were to get trees to build ships, get some fishing and hunting. And that was it.
 
Columbus died without realizing where he was either. We had to wait for Americo Vespucci to conceive a new continent. That's why we call it America, and not Ericssonia or Columbia, anyways LOL
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 11:35
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

 ... The only one who took it seriously was Miguel Serrano, a Chilean Nazi. This one also claimed Hitler was an avatar of Vishnu sent to earth to punish the Jews, and that the Aryans were alien gods who had forgotten their ancestry, while the rest of the humans were local creations. ...
 
Oh, no!! Miguel Serrano is the more falacious fellow on earth. If people start to believe in his writings, it will end believing in the holed earth, the geomancy of the landscape's names, that Spaniards and Mapuches descend of Gauls, the Hitler was the last prophet and Himmler his priest, in the theory of fire and ice, in the Atlantis, in the holed earth, and you name it.
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  Quote Hukumari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 12:42

Originally posted by tommy

Norse came to america, in a great extent, by accident, scholars stated the theory that people, especially those in Asia, came to America, are largely based on the academic studies of geographic aspect, such as movement of current and wind, in another words, not based on the sailing skill of these people,

Norse with Swedes and Finns came strongly to Iceland and to America.

As we all know the ONLY 100% proof in paternity cases in front of the justice is the DNA of the accused or suspected father. In the same way we can search possible Vikings in America by using the Y-DNA and mtDNA-tests.

When searching with Icelandic Y-DNA-Haplotypes, we can find the following surprises – full hits with:
- Misiones, Argentina (Guarani/Amerindian)
- Beni, Bolivia (Amerindian)
- Beni, Bolivia (Moxenos)
- Ecuador (Quechua]/Amerindian)


How can we explain all this?


Naturally I have hundreds and hundreds pages more about these recent DNA-connections, DNA-searches and haplotype tests between the indigenous tribes and the old world. Anyway later we must return to Wampu River nad Tuva with a lot of mew surprises.



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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 12:53
Originally posted by Hukumari

Norse with Swedes and Finns came strongly to Iceland and to America.

As we all know the ONLY 100% proof in paternity cases in front of the justice is the DNA of the accused or suspected father. In the same way we can search possible Vikings in America by using the Y-DNA and mtDNA-tests.

When searching with Icelandic Y-DNA-Haplotypes, we can find the following surprises – full hits with:
- Misiones, Argentina (Guarani/Amerindian)
- Beni, Bolivia (Amerindian)
- Beni, Bolivia (Moxenos)
- Ecuador (Quechua]/Amerindian)


How can we explain all this?

With it being complete and utter BS, of course.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 13:32
Originally posted by Hukumari

When searching with Icelandic Y-DNA-Haplotypes, we can find the following surprises – full hits with:
- Misiones, Argentina (Guarani/Amerindian)
- Beni, Bolivia (Amerindian)
- Beni, Bolivia (Moxenos)
- Ecuador (Quechua]/Amerindian)


How can we explain all this?

Easy, post-Columbian admixture. Never heared of Germans and Scandinavians in South America? You would be surprise to discover that since the beginning of colonization, Germans and others have come to live here. So those markers aren't something exotic here at all.
 
We even celebrate Octoberfest...LOL
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  Quote Hukumari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 13:49
Originally posted by Reginmund

Originally posted by Hukumari

Norse with Swedes and Finns came strongly to Iceland and to America.

As we all know the ONLY 100% proof in paternity cases in front of the justice is the DNA of the accused or suspected father. In the same way we can search possible Vikings in America by using the Y-DNA and mtDNA-tests.

When searching with Icelandic Y-DNA-Haplotypes, we can find the following surprises – full hits with:
- Misiones, Argentina (Guarani/Amerindian)
- Beni, Bolivia (Amerindian)
- Beni, Bolivia (Moxenos)
- Ecuador (Quechua]/Amerindian)


How can we explain all this?

With it being complete and utter BS, of course.

Naturally we should at first investigate by DNA, who are the Icelanders.
Their most common haplotype give some interesting details:
- 36 Eastern Norway
- 24 Finland
- 12 Northern Norway
- 11 Western Norway
- 11 Sweden 
- 6 Iceland [Icelandic], etc….

The second common haplotype:

- 66 Finland
- 24 Sweden
- 16 Eastern Norway
- 13 Northern Norway
- 9 Western Norway
- 8 Central Norway
- 8 Jokkmokk, Sweden [Saami]
- 3 Iceland [Icelandic], etc...


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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 13:54
What haplotypes? What do the numbers mean? What is the source?

And one more question: did you know the sources of "Ullman" or did you just trust those sites without checking it up?
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  Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 14:23
Originally posted by Styrbiorn


The Scandinavian heritage has already been enough disgraced by the racist ideas of foreigners, mainly German Nazis but apparently also of other nationalities. No need to proceed with it.
 
This is something that pisses me off no end. The same way Pinguin is pissed of by certain people trying to "claim" American civilizations, I am pissed of by people trying to relate Scandinavians to "Aryan" and Nazi ideologies.
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  Quote Hukumari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 14:57
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

What haplotypes? What do the numbers mean? What is the source?


Meaning of numbers = samples found = same haplotype = same family = same tribe.

There are a lot of sources from many universities and tens of webpages like:
http://www.smgf.org/pages/ydatabase.jspx
http://www.yhrd.org/
http://members.bex.net/jtcullen515/haplotest.htm

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/N%20Y-DNA%20Project/
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/AmericanIndian&fixed_columns=on
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Amerind%20Y&fixed_columns=on

Besides there are a lot of genetic investigations that usually cost from 30 to 70 US$ each. For instance JSTOR offered an investigation which reveals 3 Ainu based (Hokkaido/Japan) Indian tribes in South America with a cost of about 60 US$.

Naturally there are original “Amerindians” from the other side as well – like haplotype number 10 of Quechua.

- Central Thailand (Thai)
- Zhejiang, China (Han)- South of Yangtze-River (Wampu again)
- Ecuador (Quechua)
- Bialystok, Poland (Tatars)
- Chiang Mai, Thailand (Thai)
- Singapore (Malay)
Not any match to Europe!

If you want to find more Vikings, please try Y-DNA- searches with Wayuu and Yanomami haplotypes. The list of results will be so long that I don’t have time at the moment. Only Wayuu tribe Y-DNA takes 24 pages on my computer.

Re: "And one more question: did you know the sources of "Ullman" or did you just trust those sites without checking it up?"

Sorry, no time to Scandinavia because the last 19 years working only with American Indian investigations languages incl.




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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 15:27
But what's your point? Numerous Germans and Scandinavians have migrated to the New World during the last 200 years.
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  Quote Hukumari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 16:01
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

But what's your point? Numerous Germans and Scandinavians have migrated to the New World during the last 200 years.

The age of every haplotype can be calculated by mutation rates in order to avoid errors.

Do you want to insist that the Swedish immigrants came here some years ago to live among Indians? Quite possible but the result is “ADMIXED” = Mestizo – not AMERIND.

I recommend especially to you an excellent forum in your neighboring country about these problems. One title, “Lalli ja Erik” with 10,667 messages and 552,277 readers!
They have used hundreds of pages to population and genetics of Sweden and Norway and the truth about the Vikings.

http://www.tiede.fi/keskustelut/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=20237

Lycka till!



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 16:04

Germanics in south america:

Chileans: (Valdivia)

Yennis%20Wetzel%20Kusch
Yennis Wetzel Kusch
A typical Chilean-German of Puerto Varas, Chile.

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 16:07
Originally posted by Hukumari

...
Do you want to insist that the Swedish immigrants came here some years ago to live among Indians? Quite possible but the result is “ADMIXED” = Mestizo – not AMERIND.
 
Nonsense. You hardly find a pure Amerindian these days in the Americas. That's as hard as to find a pure European descendent. LOL
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  Quote Hukumari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 16:40
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by Hukumari

...
Do you want to insist that the Swedish immigrants came here some years ago to live among Indians? Quite possible but the result is “ADMIXED” = Mestizo – not AMERIND.
 
Nonsense. You hardly find a pure Amerindian these days in the Americas. That's as hard as to find a pure European descendent. LOL

It is like speaking to empty walls with you - hopeless!.

For instance…if the father is Y-DNA-Q or C3 and the mother has mtDNA-A, B, C, D or X2, the result is AMERIND even if they are living permanently in a suite of Hilton Hotel in Riviera.

There are a lot pure Amerindians but you can see it only by haplotype tests.
I prefer to continue discussion with my parrot in the garden.


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 17:13
Originally posted by Hukumari


I prefer to continue discussion with my parrot in the garden.
 
That's your priviledge Wink
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