Norse tech and the settlement of the Americas

Here there are more reasons why the Norse could conquer the Americas, Russia and large part of Western Europe: theirs ship technology. First, let's see the tools norse have to build theirs ships and other products. It is very surprising they had very advanced tools for the time, particularly if compared with other peoples of the time.

Master shipbuilders had complete sets of iron tools for woodcrafts

Somebody said something about the vikings losing to Christianity I was under the impression that they converted to Christianity, In Beowulf it sounded like they were Christian anyway. 

Edited by pinguin - 16-Nov-2008 at 03:24

Originally posted by pinguin However, norse didn't do pretty well against the Skraelings, who were probably Inuits, Amerindians or both. One should not forget that against theirs enemies in Greenland and the Americas they didn't have horses, firearms or full iron armors. Fighting at foot, and even with iron swords, they could be defeated by hard fighters as theirs enemies were.

There's one account of an encounter with a Dorset hunting party, who are thought not to have been armed with weapons of war at all - just fishing harpoons (perhaps used in conjunction with atlatls). The Norse were terrified. It's actually a rather amusing account from one the Iceland saga:

Now it came to pass that a bull, which belonged to Karlsefni's people, rushed out of the wood and bellowed loudly at the same time. The Skrælingar, frightened thereat, rushed away to their canoes, and rowed south along the coast. There was then nothing seen of them for three weeks together. When that time was gone by, there was seen approaching from the south a great crowd of Skrælingar boats, coming down upon them like a stream, the staves this time being all brandished in the direction opposite to the sun's motion, and the Skrælingar were all howling loudly. Then took they and bare red shields to meet them. They encountered one another and fought, and there was a great shower of missiles. The Skrælingar had also war-slings, or catapults.

Then Karlsefni and Snorri see that the Skrælingar are bringing up poles, with a very large ball attached to each, to be compared in size to a sheep's stomach, dark in colour; and these flew over Karlsefni's company towards the land, and when they came down they struck the ground with a hideous noise. This produced great terror in Karlsefni and his company, so that their only impulse was to retreat up the country along the river, because it seemed as if crowds of Skrælingar were driving at them from all sides. And they stopped not until they came to certain crags. There they offered them stern resistance.

Freydis came out and saw how they were retreating. She called out, "Why run you away from such worthless creatures, stout men that ye are, when, as seems to me likely, you might slaughter them like so many cattle? Let me but have a weapon, I think I could fight better than any of you." They gave no heed to what she said. Freydis endeavoured to accompany them, still she soon lagged behind, because she was not well; she went after them into the wood, and the Skrælingar directed their pursuit after her. She came upon a dead man; Thorbrand, Snorri's son, with a flat stone fixed in his head; his sword lay beside him, so she took it up and prepared to defend herself therewith.

Then came the Skrælingar upon her. She let down her sark and struck her breast with the naked sword. At this they were frightened, rushed off to their boats, and fled away. Karlsefni and the rest came up to her and praised her zeal.

It may give some hints as to why they came off badly ... we see that first of all, they were not a war-party and were about rather peaceful endeavours. We also see that the Vikings were practically as superstitious as the Aztecs later would be, and had a difficult time dealing with the unfamiliar: mere fishing harpoons with the float bladders attached frightened them terribly.

Originally posted by Count Belisarius But it does say that when Grendel came the people turned away form God and to pagan idols and superstitions which just made matters worse

Well who knows ... the original may have just said that when Grendel came, the people turned to Christianity which made them weak.

Besides why would the anglo saxons have givne it a second glance if it was pagan?

In the 9th or 10th century? Anglo-Saxons were just barely Christian in this period. Most of the population remained pagan, Christianity was sometimes the "public" religion and the religion of the rulers, but not the private religion of most of the people. They still celebrated pagan festivals, retold pagan legends associated with landmarks, and so on. For public purposes, they would just swap out the pagan figure of any story for God, the Devil, or a saint. Very, very common.

They're finding pagan sites in England dating as late as the 1600s ...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article3517036.ece

Not to mention that during the period the poem was written, England was being settled (and, at times, ruled) by Danes who brought their pagan religion with them.


Edited by edgewaters - 16-Nov-2008 at 04:20

Originally posted by edgewaters ... It may give some hints as to why they came off badly ... we see that first of all, they were not a war-party and were about rather peaceful endeavours. We also see that the Vikings were practically as superstitious as the Aztecs later would be, and had a difficult time dealing with the unfamiliar: mere fishing harpoons with the float bladders attached frightened them terribly.

Details of the norse ship construction. Before turning to iron, Norse used the traditional techniques known in Europe and the Mediterranean since Roman times.

Edited by pinguin - 16-Nov-2008 at 12:28

And what a success. These are maps of the Norse expansion. They contributed to the rise of some of the most important European superpowers of today: Russia, Britain and France, for instance, and they even had an important role to play in Sicily and Turkey. Besides, the knowledge they had about Greenland and Newfoundland probably helped Columbus to reach the Americas.

I've pointed a bunch of stuff out on Beowulf, now since no one seems to be listening could we get back on topic...please?

According to Jams during the time the story is set they were christian, now could we get back on topic,