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Should evolution or creationism be tought in schools?

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Le Renard View Drop Down
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  Quote Le Renard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Should evolution or creationism be tought in schools?
    Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:23
Originally posted by Paul

I'd ask all the Christians, Buddhist reincarnation doesn't conflict with the theory of evolution, why not teach that instead?



Why not? If they would teach, Evolution, reincarnation, and creation its all cool with me just as long as all are equally represented
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  Quote dark_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:56
 Evolution of course. But it should be taught as what it is- a theory. If a new theory that has mroe proff comes along that that should be taught.
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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 20:01
In science class, evolution. In social studies, they can teach the creation story as part of a religious belief, which is what this truly is.

Pushing the creation story into the classroom is nothing more than the Christian Taliban working on the burkafication of the U.S. And I will explain why.

All children of fundamentalist Christians already are being taught the creation story in their churches. They don't need to "learn" this in school.

The problem that the Christian Taliban has will evolution, is that it contradicts one of ther religious beliefs.

So just like the Afgan Taliban, the Christian Taliban are in a fight to control content everywhere, so that no one will ever be exposed to any theologically incorrect ideas.

This is all about the Christian Taliban trying to force their religion on the rest of society. We will decide if we will stand up against the radical Christians or not.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 20:56
Pretty extreme, that is -"the Christian Taliban". But, I have a feeling that is precisely what certain conservative fundamentalists are pushing. They are a hypocritical bunch. Fear and ridicule fuels their mission and the power they gain maybe at our expense. It leads toward a disregard for the constitution. I still side with devine creation. But I don't trust the sincerity of those pushing it.
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 21:53

no public school should waste time pandering to the supersticions of the masses and intentionally dumbing down children with crap about the world being made in 7 days.

In the ideal nation a person who beleives the world is 6,000 years old or something is ridiculed.

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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote Capt. Lubber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 02:22
I agree 100% with hugoestr. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but here everybody just accept evolution, or something in the same lines. And creationism is presented as one of those quirky things the christians believe in. Science may not be completely correct yet, but it is the best we have, and of course is what we want to teach our children. You don't learn away religion in school, except for in religion-class. If you feel you need to learn religon, and religious myths, then go to church. It has no place in school.
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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 08:30

I don't believe in evolution.The God created the humanity like it created the cosmos.

They can teach evolution,but the correct one is of course creationism.

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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 11:56
Originally posted by Jagatai Khan

I don't believe in evolution.The God created the humanity like it created the cosmos.

They can teach evolution,but the correct one is of course creationism.

Evulution is not a matter of BELEF.t's a FACT.Science is based on facts not superstitions. believe you are a muslim or christian.Hear me; used to be a muslim but after reading the Kuran and Half of the bible i noticed things.Right know i don't belive in any religion and if you read the holy books carefully youll see that they SUPPORT evuliton.By using the theory of evulition and miocondrial dna people have reached ONE Pre-human female that is mother to all human.Say amen to that.Read the holy books yourself,see it yourself.

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  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 12:35

amazing after 150 or so years this debate still goes on.

Couple of points-

In science, a theory is a rigorously tested statement of general principles that explains observable and recorded aspects of the world. A scientific theory therefore describes a higher level of understanding that ties "facts" together. A scientific theory stands until proven wrong -- it is never proven correct. The Darwinian theory of evolution has withstood the test of time and thousands of scientific experiments; nothing has disproved it since Darwin first proposed it more than 150 years ago. Indeed, many scientific advances, in a range of scientific disciplines including physics, geology, chemistry, and molecular biology, have supported, refined, and expanded evolutionary theory far beyond anything Darwin could have imagined."

"Many people, from evolutionary biologists to important religious figures like Pope John Paul II, contend that the time-tested theory of evolution does not refute the presence of God. They acknowledge that evolution is the description of a process that governs the development of life on Earth. Like other scientific theories, including Copernican theory, atomic theory, and the germ theory of disease, evolution deals only with objects, events, and processes in the material world. Science has nothing to say one way or the other about the existence of God or about people's spiritual beliefs"

But should they be taught in school? yes, in their appropriate places. Like many here I think evolution belongs in science class and creation belongs in r eligion class. which brings about another question does relegion class belong in the public school system? My thought is yes , as an option. If the student wishes to take a class in various religions there is not much wrong with it. how else can you deside if you beleive any of it if you don't have the knowledge of what they stand for. Do I think that only on religon should be taught. No it's an veriaty or not at all thing to me.

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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 13:41
Originally posted by Seko

Pretty extreme, that is -"the Christian Taliban". But, I have a feeling that is precisely what certain conservative fundamentalists are pushing. They are a hypocritical bunch. Fear and ridicule fuels their mission and the power they gain maybe at our expense. It leads toward a disregard for the constitution. I still side with devine creation. But I don't trust the sincerity of those pushing it.


I agree with you point. These extremists Christians are just giving a bad name to the rest of evangelical Christians.

Most evangelical Christians are nice and reasonable. It is only a minority of power hungry zealots that are doing this.
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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 14:33
Originally posted by Dawn

amazing after 150 or so years this debate still goes on.

Couple of points-

 

But should they be taught in school? yes, in their appropriate places. Like many here I think evolution belongs in science class and creation belongs in r eligion class. 

exactly.creationism should go to the religion classes because it's a belief.

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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 20:49
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

One of those sites made me laugh about the dinosuars. Seems the more evidence comes up for evolution the more propganda comes up in support for christianity when none of these were said in the bible or scrolls in the past. And taking information from the bible and saying its a dinosaur by what they describe is like taking Notradomes' predictions and saying he saw the destruction of the twin towers. You have to be very superstitious to beleave in the stuff.


Well we know dinosaurs exist today, allegators and sharks, so if those pictures of those other dinosuars from the ocean are true, which I kinda doubt, then that doesn't prove much.


"I do not know why some of these radical liberals are so afraid of any mention of creation and why they are so paranoid of calling evolution a theory and not a fact in schools."


Christians seem to either attack science or just change there belief so people don't shy away from the belief of a supreme god who created all. Science, has been taught, creationism, or christianity in disguise hasn't really except in christian schools or in the past. While science always says that things are questionable and everything can be proven wrong until there is nothing left against it and even still then scientist look for reasons against it, religeons say once said thats it, if you questioned it in the past you were killed for saying "What if god doesn't exist?"


Some people don't want creationism taught because it fuels religeon while people just brush off science and move on in there life, they don't go someplace to worship science. They don't read a book of tales of heros and saviors for science unless they want to read about albert einstien who wrote of science. And even then some scientist were active christians, but they didn't include god into their works, they included only science and mathematics and questions.


I'm getting tired of christianity and there explanations for everything scientific that comes up. At some point they will be backed into a corner and unable to move on with anymore explanations, I honestly hope I see that day.


Now I say christianity and not christians, only because I have nothing against them, but more of the religeon itself. I don't hate people but I won't celebrate a religeon that has caused many wars in history along with other religeons. I don't beleave there has yet been a war in the name of science, all science has done is fueled the war but there are many sciences.



Your argument is weak becuse you have a closed mind, but I will agree that religion should not be taught in public schools although I see no problem bringing up, briefly, the theory or belief in creation.
I have taken many biology classes and it is still a theory and not a fact!!!
Not all wars were fought over religion but in fact most are for socioecconomic reasons, for power and land. Religion is often a good excuse but no matter people would still find reasons to kill each other without religion.
I prefer to steer from oraganized religion but I do believe in God.
If you want to believe in evolution then it is by faith and not fact but I respect your choice. If you can prove it then Dr. Hovind will give you a large sum of money.

"One man's way to Heaven is another man's way to Hell."
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 22:25

"Your argument is weak becuse you have a closed mind, but I will agree that religion should not be taught in public schools although I see no problem bringing up, briefly, the theory or belief in creation.
I have taken many biology classes and it is still a theory and not a fact!!!
Not all wars were fought over religion but in fact most are for socioecconomic reasons, for power and land. Religion is often a good excuse but no matter people would still find reasons to kill each other without religion.
I prefer to steer from oraganized religion but I do believe in God.
If you want to believe in evolution then it is by faith and not fact but I respect your choice. If you can prove it then Dr. Hovind will give you a large sum of money."

I wouldn't say I'm closed minded, I went to a catholic school and thats where I came to the conclusion it wasn't real but more of a fairy tale like the hundred other religeons either before or after christianity. I beleave Judaism or Islam, not sure which order they came in, came from a Egyption religeon that didn't last long at all where for the first time a pharoah said there was one god, after he died his followers went into hiding that still beleaved and the religeon was broken up. From there I beleave it all just evolved into Judaism and Islam, from Judaism came Christianity, whether it was from Jesus or if Jesus was just chosen as a poster boy idk.

Theres a whole lot more proof of evolution then there will ever be of a god existing. They just keep finding more and more proof of evolution. Infact earlier this month or late last month they found some skeletons in ethopia linking some bon es. They also found another set of bones in south asia of another human sub-species that they nicknamed a hobit.

Its just hard for me to beleave in a religeon that has so many sub groups I guess you can say so that it better fits how people feel or to move with science since they can't really prove wrong except make up explanations on dinosuars being around with humans when theres more evidence and its a known fact of what time period they were from and that they were from a time period of pre-primape species'.

Its known that the moon was made after a mars sized rock slammed into earth. So during the 7 days we were created a few million years later a asteroid hit earth that would kill everyone and everything, and yet we just magicly poped up again? Well I guess its possible since someone did make a planet in 7 days.....

Alright I have to stop or i'll be hijacking this topic further... All I want to really say is its beyond me how people can still beleave in a god, or a religeon with such violent histories. But I will also respect the people, just not the religeon. 

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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 23:01

Do we believe we are right? Do we believe that we are wrong?

Do we believe in thoughts, in dreams, in math, in science, in God? Do we believe in history???

Unless we were their doing the studies or observing the phenomena, all our beliefs of the above is just hearsay.

With deductive reasoning, an open mind, critical thinking and respect for the laws of nature, we can form opinions based on logic.

Here is my twist - "How can we not believe in God?  Or ar we letting our subjective demands persuade our assumptions about our beliefs?

Proof is limited to time. Logic is universal.

My point is not in regards to our personal value for religion, but for our understanding of ourselves and our ablility to use our minds and our heart in guiding us towards believing. 

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  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 10:05

 

I would say both can be teached in schools.

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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 11:54
Originally posted by Seko

Do we believe we are right? Do we believe that we are wrong?

Do we believe in thoughts, in dreams, in math, in science, in God? Do we believe in history???

Unless we were their doing the studies or observing the phenomena, all our beliefs of the above is just hearsay.

With deductive reasoning, an open mind, critical thinking and respect for the laws of nature, we can form opinions based on logic.

Here is my twist - "How can we not believe in God?  Or ar we letting our subjective demands persuade our assumptions about our beliefs?

Proof is limited to time. Logic is universal.

My point is not in regards to our personal value for religion, but for our understanding of ourselves and our ablility to use our minds and our heart in guiding us towards believing. 

You say how can we not belive in god.Did you know that atheism is a BELEF.nteresting isn't it.The same answer should be given to how can we belive in god.

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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  Quote Aquila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 12:58
Someone said it before, and I will say it again for them. NEITHER, unless it is creationism taught in Sunday school. Evolution is a theory and Creationism is a belief, so they do not qualify to be taught to all people, only the people who alredy believe in them.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 20:34
Good point Akyncy! I respect your belief in Atheism. My intention is to search into our methods of reasoning. Part of my statements reflect on our ability to talk in definitives when in actuality we are stating our subjective experiences and beliefs. My personal conclusion about God stems from my own deductive reasoning. The journey I took to get to the beliefs I hold today consists of my personal awareness of my subjective wishes, as well as, objectively evaluating information from comparative sources. This is an ongoing journey.  Yet I feel comfortable in the conclusions I have presented to myself.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 05:41
Originally posted by aknc

You say how can we not belive in god.Did you know that atheism is a BELEF.nteresting isn't it.The same answer should be given to how can we belive in god.


Yes, but evolution is not nessessarily (sp?) atheist, while creationism usually is religious. So teaching creationism is directly or indirectly teaching a belief, while teaching evolution is not teaching atheism.
Apart from that, evolution is scientific, creationism isn't.
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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 05:44

Originally posted by Aquila

Someone said it before, and I will say it again for them. NEITHER, unless it is creationism taught in Sunday school. Evolution is a theory and Creationism is a belief, so they do not qualify to be taught to all people, only the people who alredy believe in them.

Creationism is a belief.True.Evulution is a theory.Also true.But evulution is a theory proven to be true so it should be tought in schools.Right now in Turkey we have evulution in science class and creationism in religion class.This is the way it is supposed to be.

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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