How do creationist explain fossil fuels?

Yeah.. ah.. righto then.. 

I haven't read pages 2-6 just 1 & 7 (sorry haven't got the time due to painter due here at 8 am this morning etc)

Fossils may be due to catastrophes like the Flood (Noah) and Atlantis continental shift.

Many cultures have scheme of 4 or so world ages which each ended in catastrophes. Some mention people/animals being turned to stone by floods or fires, and/or layers of coloured clay/stones.

Re light: the speed of light is slowing down. Plus the universe has expanded (perhaps sudden expansions like sudden continental shifts)

Antarctica ice date has been drastically revised according to Flem-Ath. Siberia Mammoths frooze suddenly.

Re not enough water for the Flood:
7/10ths of Earth surface are water. The average depth of oceans is 12,451 ft versus average height of land only 2,300 ft! If the surface of the earth was flat the water would stand over 7900 ft/1.5 mi  deep. Mountains werent as high nor oceans so deep before the flood.
Plus some other possible explanations.

Re the God sending them delusion that they believe the lie: that may not (just) be evolution (or even aliens or clever deception of antichrist) but the lie of genesis that we will not die but become gods?

There are more histories of the world than just the bible and modern evolutionists versions. They are closer to the bible than evolution.

God is not a deceiver. Nor has He created us as irrational beings. The process of making fossil fuels is knowable (deductible) and logical. The age of the earth is also. The young earth belief is a deduction from the history of lineage provided by OT records. It is a true account of the line of relationship-descendants down to Jesus and serves this purpose.  This is where the problems begin. We are  trying to apply man's reasoning to the spiritual purpose of scripture when in fact there are things unsaid. Notice in James it sais there are things , miracles performed that are not in this book but enough that you will know Him as the Christ...  Talking snakes and Global floods serve as a vehicle for a message. People lacking the creative process cannot understand the liberties taken and the purpose they serve. This in no way diminishes God
nor makes the purpose of our Bible invalid. The OT is, As a shadow of things to come. I think the OT timeline is the relevant story of man and God culminating in the conclusion of Christ. This is not to invalidate the vast history of the earth prior to this story. We must reconcile the knowable world with God's word and that requires some creative processes.

time is a rather simple concept to explain (for the timespan relevant to this discussion ofcourse)

to prove things you take the ingredients, put them in similar conditions, accelerate the process by a factor and voila you have the end product

to draw a paralel its how they found out the flaw with the first commercial jet airplane (metal fatigue story). Same priciples apply

so to get more close to geology...you take a rock (magmatic, sedimetary etc) and put it to pressures and temperaturs they would encounter in the mantle.
you obtain a different type of rock (that is also widely found on the surface now).

by the way rocks get "recicled" by getting sunken - plate tectonics - and then resurfacing its the only explanation of how this type of rocks can occur.

now if you factor in the speed with which rocks get recicled (so the speed of surface rocks to get pushed back in at subducting plate boudaries) you end up with millions/billions of years of process time.


same applies to the fossil fuels.....it needs way more than what creation theory has in mind for the timespan

in no way I am denied the existance of God but certainly he did not create things 6000-7000years ago

so the fault can be put on:
God - quite unlikely as he is not suppose to do errors
Scientist with the dating of materials and processes - its quite well argumented across the board
Creators of the Creating theory - they need to work on their numbers a bit

and that is my opinion

I'm a geophycisist btw and I'm looking for this fossil fuels as my job :)

I don't object to it being taught in classes on religious beliefs, as long as it's on the same basis as other religions.

Which is why it is idiotic to teach creationism in practical schools - even if the creationists are right.

So Gcle, does this mean that an acceptable compromise in your eyes would be a quick five minute explanation of why you cannot treat creationism in the same manner of evolution. But still explaining to the pupils that they can still discredit portions of evolutionary theory using the scientific method then that is an acceptable practice?

So basically explain to creationist parents that they may know the "truth" and that it's best that their children "know the enemy".

Yes. That's the central point.

Not animal origin - humans are animals in the biological sense, they don't just originate in an animal and then suddenly cease being an animal.

 

Now, that memory thing, nothing that is 200 years old is remembered by anyone. It is just as valid as 5000-6000 years, if the premise is that the apparent age of the world is an illusion. It just appears like the world is older than 200 years. Our 6 x great grandparents simply didn't exist. Same way the fossils never were alive. Same way amber never were tree resin.  Same way the stars light never were under way, but was created on its way. Same way chemical creation of certain crystals never occurred. Same way Greenland and Antarctic ice were never snow. Same way the solar system was created with all that old world evidence included.

Edited by Jams - 22-Nov-2008 at 20:21

Originally posted by Menumorut To resume my idea, we have at least three variants: -mattery is the principle of existence and world is 4 billion years old -God (a rational and alive Being) is the principle of existence and He created the world 4 billion years ago -God (a rational and alive Being) is the principle of existence and He created the world some thousands years ago. Of these, I found the last the most credible because, as I said, the age of the world coincide with the age of humanity and the 'prehistorical' generations are a modern concept, linked to a presumed monkey origin of humans.

It is nice to see you put it that way. Maybe I was too hard on you, because re-reading the posts I became aware that your English probably isn't perfect, and that can sometimes lead to misunderstandings, especially when the wrong terminology or idioms are used. I sometimes also make idiomatic mistakes, leading to misunderstandings, as I'm not a native English speaker either.

 

Reply to your post:

However, that leaves out an infinite number of possible chronological explanations. If it is assumed that the world is more "logic" if it is young, then what does that mean for future generations? What, in 100,000 years are people to assume? (If we exist then, obviously).

According to this kind of thought, an even younger world is even more "logic" so why stop at some thousand of years? why not 200 years, why not yesterday? If the world is only 200 years old, then humanity was also created 200 years ago.

 One of the requirements behind this idea is that the world was created as a "in medias res" world, in the middle of existence. So, a lot of illusions have been placed, like the one I described above, the calcite deposits. If that is the case, then the world could have been created at ANY time, not just a few thousand years ago.

 

I do have a comment to the last part you wrote, the "monkey" origin. That is a fallacy however you look at it. Humans are, according to the usual classification, primates, but not monkeys. We have the same origin as the great apes, but we are not descendants of the great apes, or any living monkey species - no biologist or palaeontologist make such claims; just because two animals share origin doesn't make one the descendant of the other.

Of course, modern human remains have been found that are presumably 30.000 years old or more, so it isn't really all that relevant.

Edited by Jams - 22-Nov-2008 at 15:15