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Great Powers in History |
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Winterhaze13 
Colonel 
Joined: 11-Nov-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 716 |
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 Topic: Great Powers in HistoryPosted: 18-Mar-2005 at 18:23 |
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My intention is to break up the great powers of history into two distinuishing categories: First and Second Class. I will largely be taking into account culture, military, government and economic considerations. Lastly, the world powers (those who expanded their power outside their domain), will likely be placed in First Class. Although, some left such an indeliable impact on their region that they deserve the status of First Class. |
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
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Winterhaze13
Colonel
Joined: 11-Nov-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 716 |
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Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 18:27 |
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FIRST CLASS Ancient Greece (Mainly Athens and Sparta) Ancient Egypt Mesopotamia Persia Roman Empire Alexander's Macedonia Han Empire (China) Islam (C. 650) The Catholic Church (C. 800) Mongol Empire Spain (15th and 16th centuries) France (1648-1940) Britain (1640s-1945) Renaissance Italy (C.1350-1700) United States of America (1945-?) Soviet Union (1945-1991) Edited by Winterhaze13 |
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
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Winterhaze13
Colonel
Joined: 11-Nov-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 716 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 18:31 |
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SECOND CLASS Hittite Empire Phoenicia Assyria Carthage Carolingian Empire Byzantine Empire Hapsburg Empire (Austria) Ottoman Empire (1453-1800) Tartars under Tamerlane (1381-1405) Portugal (15th and 16th Centuries) Russia (1815-1917) Prussia (1740-1871) Germany (1871-1945)
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
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Winterhaze13
Colonel
Joined: 11-Nov-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 716 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 18:33 |
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Waiting in the Wings: China? India? European Union? |
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
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Tlaloc
Immortal Guard 
Joined: 17-Mar-2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 19:09 |
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Heh..it would be folly to waste all this time on making such a list. I doubt anybody truly has the qualifications to take into account every military, cultural, literary, scientifical, social, and economical factor from the empires of history and arrange them from some pre-defined 'greatest' to 'lowest'.
As an example..you list the Han as first class. What abou the cultural splendour of the T'ang? Or the political and educatonal splendour of the Song? Or the economic splendour of the Ming? Each empire contributes something. Be content with that. |
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white dragon
Consul 
Joined: 27-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 356 |
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Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 19:53 |
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i'd have to agree
have fun finding out all the powers that have existed throughtout history. |
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Pray as if everything depended upon God and work as if everything depended upon man.
-Francis Cardinal Spellman |
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oodog
Samurai 
Joined: 05-Dec-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 106 |
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Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 22:22 |
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I am not sure about your definition of "great power" . As my understanding, it means at least a centralized regime such as Roman empire, Han empire, ancient Egypt and Alexandra's Macedonia, etc. But why there are something like Islam, Mesopotamia, or even ancient GreeceYou know, they are in fact conbination of lots of independent states and nations. If they counts, why not Christian ,Comintern or even the UN are included?
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Sharrukin
Chieftain 
Joined: 04-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1314 |
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 00:15 |
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Darn oodog you beat me to it. But yes, Winterhaze13 when one thinks of a "great power", one is not thinking about a region such as "Greece", "Mesopotamia", or "Phoenicia" among others, or such institutions such as "the Catholic Church" or "Islam". The Catholic Church may have had an influence on existing "Christian" empires, but it was certainly dependent on them including the Carolingian Empire. As for Islam, it would probably be more appropriate to put in its place "the Caliphate". Instead of Greece, you can just be more specific such as mentioning Sparta and Athens. I was kind of wondering what you meant by "Mesopotamia", since you did mention in the "second category", Assyria which among powers of Mesopotamian origin, ruled it quite effectively. I'm wondering why you even put Assyria and Hittite Empire in the "second category". The Assyrians were clearly second to none in their heyday, and the Babylonians and Persians which followed them owed their provincial organization from the Assyrians. The Hittites were on par with the Egyptians, militarily, and had the most humane and modern-looking sets of laws among ancient civilizations. Ironically, the Hittites had their own "list" of great powers equal to itself which included the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, and Achaeans. There are other things that could be mentioned, including the dating, but this suffices for now.
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Guests
Guest 
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 03:48 |
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I cant agree on Prussia and France. How can you define all of France, Roman Empire and Islamic Empire in one category? France had nothing to affect history that much except their colonies and their cultural expansion over these colonies. The main colonial power was England, Britain...
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cattus
Arch Duke 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1803 |
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 04:29 |
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My immediate urge was to flip the Mongol and Ottoman empires.
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Jagatai Khan
Chieftain
Jeune Turc Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 1270 |
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 08:03 |
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The Seljuk Empire was one of the greatests in 1000-1200.Iran,Khorasan,some of Northern India,Kazakhstan were under their control. |
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Gazi
Earl 
Joined: 16-Mar-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 282 |
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 08:12 |
I agree |
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Freedom is the recognition of necessity.-Friedrich Engels
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Gubook Janggoon
Sultan 
Retired Global Moderator Joined: 08-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2187 |
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 14:37 |
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Why the heck is Prussia a second class power?! That's one of the
greatest empires the world has ever seen! It's acts had powerful
consequences in both Europe and the world.
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rider
Tsar 
Suspended Joined: 09-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4664 |
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 14:50 |
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Well, maybe the second class is better, like more people in it or so. And the Catholic... Why at 800, in 800, if i am correct there was just Christianity, or Roman Catholic and Greek Catholic, then of Islam, if oyu could put it into Caliphate, then it would be obivious to put Catholic over to Spain... Then, the power and beaty of Italy ended with the Wars of Italy in 1500's.
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Winterhaze13
Colonel
Joined: 11-Nov-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 716 |
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:00 |
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Well, I consulted a Military Encyclopedia. And I knew this would be ambitious and I think I did a good job on it. And I welcome any challenges to that claim. |
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
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Winterhaze13
Colonel
Joined: 11-Nov-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 716 |
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:03 |
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France did nothing to affect history. Are you insane!! Read up on something that began in 1789 in France which later spread to the entire continent and gave us many of the great principles as Liberty and equality which shape our society today. It influenced every event after the fact, including the Russian Revolution and every revolution since then. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution Edited by Winterhaze13 |
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
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Winterhaze13
Colonel
Joined: 11-Nov-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 716 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:03 |
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Explain? |
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
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Winterhaze13
Colonel
Joined: 11-Nov-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 716 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:04 |
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The power of the Church over state affairs began with Charlemagne early in the 9th century. |
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
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Imperator Invictus
Caliph 
Retired AE Administrator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3151 |
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:15 |
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How about this list?
Ancient (-300 BC) First Tier Powers Akkadia Assyria Hittites Egypt Zhou Achaemenids Second Tier Babylon Mittanii Jin and Qin Media Classical (300 BC - 500 AD) First Tier Macedon Qin Han Rome Xiong Nu Sassanid Mauryan Second Tier Carthage Seleucid Parthia Palmrya Bactria Medieval (500-1450) First Tier Caliphate Tang Mongol Empire Tamerlane's Second Tier Byzantium Carolingian Jin Golden Horde Il-Khanate Mameluks Yuan Ming Kok Turuk Seljuk Fatimid Song Ottomans HRE Edited by Imperator Invictus |
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Winterhaze13
Colonel
Joined: 11-Nov-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 716 |
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:26 |
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Looks very good, you certainly cover more than I do. But, are all of these great powers?
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
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