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Byzantine refugees after fourteen fifty three?

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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Byzantine refugees after fourteen fifty three?
    Posted: 25-Nov-2009 at 09:00
Most of the refugees went to Italy and that is given as one reason as to why the renaissance occurred and why in Italy. 
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Nov-2009 at 18:59
Yes, it is postited that many Greek works were brought by these refugees to the West, wherin many of them were translated into Latin?

But, the above words are mostly "supposition", and based upon later findings concerning language, phonetics, and the words of other "experts", etc.!

Note that the use of the term "experts" contends that the opinion of these men and women, had a lating effect upon the later experts, who either tended to support those belifs, and those who could not support such contentions!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2010 at 14:48
Actually saying that "most refugees went to Italy", is a bit of simplification of a very complicated period.

The flying (fleeing?) of refugees started long before the fall of Istanbul / Istambul, and its immediate environs. As the Ottomans or Othman's closed the noose around the neck of an increasingly shrinking Rum Empire, those with what would become immediate problems, started fleeing (flying) from the Levant way before the last of the Crusader States disappeared! Some of these families had been in the Levant for a hundred years or more, and had become second, third or even fourth generation residents.

Many of these families had adopted both the style of dress and living and even the language of the so called local residents. Back in Europe they stuck out like a "madras shirt" / or a "Nehru jacket" worn in church in 1962! Even the accent of their original language had changed during their period as occupiers in the Levant.

I feel that many of them became what is later called Syrian, or Armenean refugees! One reason being that back Europe, that was the most common name used to describe those who lived in the Levant.

Technically, the very last of these so called Crusader States, existed within and around the area we today call Greece, and Albania, and Macedonia!

But, in the interim of the expansion of the Othman empire, that did not include the Immediate site of Constantinople itself, these small petty dukedoms, etc., who oft were called Frankish Dukes, etc., had already been hard pressed by other foreigners who fought them for power. Some of these "foreigners" were called "the Catalans!"

The Catalans, were (it seems) mostly from the area we now call Spain, and even parts of S. France! Interestingly old accounts describe their dress and fighting utinsils as looking suspiciously like the soldiers we are told fought for the Roman Empire (In Rome). They reportedly wore similar sandals, carried a short sword, and wielded something similar to a pilum! In some accounts one can substitute the word "almogavers" for "catalans!"

These warriors which had first entered the Byzantine Empire as mercenaries, later became devoted enemies to Byzantium!

You might well want to peruse some of these sites to learn more about the Catalans in general? http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS315US315&q=the+catalans

But, to get any understanding of the Catalans, to which I refer, you need to read;

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS315US315&q=the+catalan+company

But, as great as they became, they were also over come by another group of what we would today refer to as Spainards; these people are mentioned in our history as the Navaresse and especially the Navareese company! It was this group of Spanish knights who eventually caused the fall of the Catalans and their explusion (bannishment or exile) from the area we today call Greece!

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  Quote Orderic Vitalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 13:44
Visit our site www.medievalists.net for articles, videos and more about the Middle Ages
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 14:59
That is very interesting, and I shall try to read the pdf's that actually have the information!

As a representative of the site, perhaps you could point me to the areas within the pdf files that actually discuss the Catalans, or Almongavers?

Regards,
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote Nurica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 19:39

I don't think such big masses of people could escape the turks after the fall of c.

Before the fall there was though an important emigration from c. to the west, but these were professors, scholars or theologians, or politicians, in any case people from nobility. In such a book like etienne gilson's "history of medieval philosophy" we can find some echoes about the impact of this intelectual migration from east, essentially directed toward rome and italy.
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